Mayapan "domesticates" white-tailed deer

At its height, the inhabitants of the Postclassic Maya city of Mayapan were keeping large numbers of white-tailed deer in pens to butcher and eat, resulting in a much higher amount of deer consumption compared to most other Maya cities. Unfortunately this was put to an end by the fall of the League of Mayapan.

Let's say that there is a series of very lucky mutations before the decline of the city that makes Mayapan deer "more domesticated", enough that it spreads to the Xiu lands in the Yucatan and eventually into the Plateau.

How is Mesoamerica changed?

Probably no a whole lot, actually. We are talking the post-classic. It's only going to be a few hundred years max until the Spanish show up and this just doesn't allow the time for deer domestication in a few Maya city states in Yucatan to significantly change MesoAmerican civilization

Nothing intelligent to say, but really interesting POD. Deer are browsers, so maybe they would function like goats? Would you get deforestation problems like in the Middle East?

A browser would be incredibly useful in the American Southwest if the animal made it that far.

I don't know how relevant this is to the discussion but a number of Native American nations in the eastern woodlands claimed to have semi-domesticated white-tailed deer. They followed a crop rotation system where after a few years of farming, old farmland wad left to be reclaimed by the forest. The new forest growth attracted deer, which then came in larhe numbers to be hunted. They claimed that, by creating the right forest condition to attract deer, this was a sort of domestication. (It's also interesting to note that many of the first European explorers found white-tailed deer to be unfaid of humans - a trait which the species has since lost...)

telynk said:

I don't know how relevant this is to the discussion but a number of Native American nations in the eastern woodlands claimed to have semi-domesticated white-tailed deer. They followed a crop rotation system where after a few years of farming, old farmland wad left to be reclaimed by the forest. The new forest growth attracted deer, which then came in larhe numbers to be hunted. They claimed that, by creating the right forest condition to attract deer, this was a sort of domestication. (It's also interesting to note that many of the first European explorers found white-tailed deer to be unfaid of humans - a trait which the species has since lost...)

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That sounds more like firestick farming in Australia than what the Maya were doing, which was much more like how Europe or China dealt with animals.

zoomar said:

Probably no a whole lot, actually. We are talking the post-classic. It's only going to be a few hundred years max until the Spanish show up and this just doesn't allow the time for deer domestication in a few Maya city states in Yucatan to significantly change MesoAmerican civilization

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Perhaps not for the natives, but it will still have a big impact on the European settlers who will come and adopt this domesticate and probably spread it around.

moxn said:

Perhaps not for the natives, but it will still have a big impact on the European settlers who will come and adopt this domesticate and probably spread it around.

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That is quite true. The OP was about "MesoAmerica" which I took to mean the high civilizations of Mexico and Central America.

Certainly a strain of fully domesticated deer could be attractive to European settlers, with their long history of animal husbandry and breeding. Over the next several hundred years these deer might be selectively bred for a variety of purposes, for food, light duty burdens, and as pets.

But I think this is rather unlikely. The other significant New World domestic animal (Llamas and alpacas) were not adapted wholesale by Europeans, nor did their husbandry spread much out of their original area. Europeans came to the New World with a wide variety of domesticated animals that would have been superior to domesticated deer for most purposes. Cattle are large and far more capable as beasts of burden, cattle (because of their size) and pigs (because of their large litters) are probably more efficient meat animals, horses can be ridden, sheep produce wool,etc. More than likely, except in its core area, a strain of domesticated deer would probably be seen as a niche domesticate, like Llamas outside of the Andes. Maybe be kept as pets or raised for their very lean meat - something like that.

zoomar said:

Probably no a whole lot, actually. We are talking the post-classic. It's only going to be a few hundred years max until the Spanish show up and this just doesn't allow the time for deer domestication in a few Maya city states in Yucatan to significantly change MesoAmerican civilization

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A few hundred years of population growth is a lot. Also think of the possible transportation breakthroughs (wheeled carriages).

Intransigent Southerner said:

A few hundred years of population growth is a lot. Also think of the possible transportation breakthroughs (wheeled carriages).

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With white-tailed deer? Deer are much smaller and lighter than cattle or horses. Even if the Maya put two and two together in 200 years and came up with the idea of hitching wheeled vehicles to deer, this would be like hitching wagons to llamas. They just aren't big and strong enough. Also, efficient wheeled vehicles are not that easy to invent. It took a long time in the old world for the principle to be turned into truly useful vehicles. I admit that the principle of the wheel was known in MesoAmerica. I do not admit that turning a something used only in small toys into a useful carriage or chariot is all that likely before Spaniards show up.

Just looked it up: the average llama is definitely heavier than the average white-tailed deer. So, I can't the Mayan doing anything withe deer that they wouldn't already be (theoretically) able to do with llamas imported from the Andes.

The Muisca in SAmerica were noted for 'tame deer'.

tantric said:

The Muisca in SAmerica were noted for 'tame deer'.

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The Maya had tame deer as well, raised from infancy to be household pets. As for deer corrals and whatnot, I've never heard of this practice having been unique to Mayapan. Where did you hear about this, OP?

The Muisca were more into herding - like cattle herds in the old west. Geographically limited areas, kill all the predators, harvest at will.