Soviet Red Empire

Hi I was wondering what it would take for Soviet Red Empire for it to be stronger then it was in are world, in other words how to make it work.


Example Stalin's Ape Soliders, the Palace of the Soviets type of buildings.


I need to know about the plans for armed vehicles and buildings that were never built.


LW

If you want the Soviets to be stronger, I'm pretty sure that wasting money and time on dead end craziness like ape soldiers and petty prestige projects like the Palace of the Soviets is not the way to accomplish such a thing.

I am also unclear how buildings are going to help the USSR?

Ape soldiers is just ASB. There is zero chance of there ever being ape soldiers.

The Soviet Union's problems are a lot duller - economics and the general lack of belief in communism by the populace by the 1980s. A more liberal and realistic economic system, i.e. some free market policies, would do a lot for improving Soviet technology and industry while keeping the populace happier.

Basically, a more Chinese approach to interpreting communist policy would help to keep the USSR alive.

You're better off with following plausible ideas, like a revolution in an industrialized nation in the wake of the soviet revolution, which then serves as a strong ally to the USSR and ultimately provides enough economic aid for the soviets to modernize and industrialize with minimal bloodshed.

eliphas8 said:

You're better off with following plausible ideas, like a revolution in an industrialized nation in the wake of the soviet revolution, which then serves as a strong ally to the USSR and ultimately provides enough economic aid for the soviets to modernize and industrialize with minimal bloodshed.

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Russia and Germany going red after WWI (somewhat plausible) and forming an unified bloc (very hard) would make Communism even more powerful than OTL. France, Italy, Spain, maybe even China could have their own revolutions. However, such a successful communist revolution would spark a global red scare such as never seen before, so probably revolutions in other nations would be cracked down. Hard.

For a longer survival of the USSR after WWII, keeping up consumer goods to keep the population happy and scientific development to keep a pairity with the west is a must. Also, a detenté with the US would do wonders to slow down the ridiculous arms race between the two. Maybe they decide to cooperate in some international matters?

After WW2 Germany went all Red, in 1950's Korea is all Red and Vietnam as well, China didn't leave the Sov Bloc.


The Rest of Eastern Europe is the same as are during the Cold War, also Tito didn't buck against Stalin.


Now one thing that might happen due to much stronger USSR, is that Canada wouldn't be the weak lilly that is now. My nation would still have it's own Navy, Army and Airforce due to the simple fact that they would have to stop Red Ivan coming down from the polar north.


The British are still the British Empire at the end of WW2, despight the fact they were broke at the end of the war.

What I need to know is did the Sovs have any wonder weapons plans, buildings they wanted to build and autos that they wanted to make as well.


LW

Still need help with this setting, now some of you are right Soviet Era they need some things done to strength there land.


Farming: Red Ivan had problems feeding there people, they would have to figure out a away to make there commune farms work well.


Industry: Some of you know that any nation needs strong Industry for it to survive, Red Ivan could make war machines no problem but they had hard time building others things like cars.


Buildings: Red Ivan could build nice parks and normal buildings, but they couldn't build there dream projects like the palace of the Soviets. If they had super Concrete then they could build housing quickly and cheaply like there proposed Super Housing buildings they wanted to build as well.



A fully Red Germany after WW2 could help in some areas, along with the Soviets getting the cream of the Nazis sciencists as well.


LW

lwhitehead said:

Hi I was wondering what it would take for Soviet Red Empire for it to be stronger then it was in are world...

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Avoid Stalin's gross error in refusing to believe the Axis would attack in 1941.

The Axis attack is only a success, not a gigantic success, stopping well west of OTL's reach with about half the OTL casualties. In 1942, the Germans get pushed back. Hitler is overthrown in late 1942. In June 1943, Germany makes a separate peace with the USSR, agreeing to Soviet control of eastern Poland, Finland, the Baltics, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Albania. All these countries are incorporated into the USSR.

(Dunno if Stalin would do this. ITTL, he doesn't have to pay even lip service to US/UK expectations.)

In October 1943, the USSR attacks Japan in Manchuria and north China. The Soviet Army overruns all Korea as well. A belt of Chinese provinces from Manchuria and Shandong to Xinjiang are added to the USSR.

...in other words how to make it work.

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It can't be done. No central body can have enough timely information to control a national economy efficiently. It can run for a while, may even have a few dramatic successes, but in the long term (20-50 years) will founder under the deadweight of errors that don't get fixed. The efficient way to signal costs and demands is price information, which means a profit system, not socialism.

The Soviets made a huge effort to plan and rationalize their economy in the 1950s and 1960s, sending thousands of scientific and mathematical experts into the planning bureaus. It failed.

"Buildings: Red Ivan could build nice parks and normal buildings, but they couldn't build there dream projects like the palace of the Soviets. If they had super Concrete then they could build housing quickly and cheaply like there proposed Super Housing buildings they wanted to build as well."

Why on Earth do you think that building the Palace of the Soviets would make the USSR stronger? Concrete is perfectly fine for building skyscrapers, you don't need some sort of mystical super concrete. The original Palace of the Soviets was abandoned when the Germans attacked, if it had been built it would have made no difference to the war.

Is this all about some sort of civilisation type game? In real life your soldiers don't develop new capabilities and new technologies don't suddenly appear just because you have a grand building.

Rich Rostrom said:

Avoid Stalin's gross error in refusing to believe the Axis would attack in 1941.

The Axis attack is only a success, not a gigantic success, stopping well west of OTL's reach with about half the OTL casualties. In 1942, the Germans get pushed back. Hitler is overthrown in late 1942. In June 1943, Germany makes a separate peace with the USSR, agreeing to Soviet control of eastern Poland, Finland, the Baltics, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Albania. All these countries are incorporated into the USSR.

(Dunno if Stalin would do this. ITTL, he doesn't have to pay even lip service to US/UK expectations.)

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Stalin was not an expanion-minded maniac like Hitler, he was an opportunist. He was well aware of the troubles USSR (and Russian Empire before that) had with the diversity and inhomogeneity of the peoples it ruled. There was a reason why Warsaw Pact countries were not incorporated in USSR OTL: He knew damn well that such an enlarged USSR would become ungovernable. This would be rather something you would see with "revolution exporters" like Trotsky at the USSR helm.

The Soviets made a huge effort to plan and rationalize their economy in the 1950s and 1960s, sending thousands of scientific and mathematical experts into the planning bureaus. It failed.

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In the 1970s Allende administration in Chile tried the next stage of a planned economy development, with most rationalization and decision processes performed by computer mainframes rather than people. The process was stillborn due to the coup taking places before the system could be fully introduced, but it would be interested if such a system with reduced human bias effects in a smaller, much more homogeneous and fairly isolated economy like Chile would have any chance to work.
Most big corporations nowadays do practice internal planned economy, and while it has its massive drawbacks, the system keeps creaking on - despite all human biases, accumulating errors etc. The key is getting feedback and incorporating it in your planning system quick enough.

Well most of my alt history happens during the last days of WW2, Red Russia getting most of the escaping Axis science people, and using the Abomb first.



LW