This probably has been discussed already in great detail but what happens if the Army of Northern Virginia wins at Gettysburg by taking Missionary Ridge? I think that a likely target would have been Camp Curtin. It was a major Union supply depot and would have allowed the Confederacy a chance to get foreign intervention in the war on their side by demonstrating that the Confederates could inflict a major defeat on the Union.
WI:Confederate Target after Gettysburg Victory
- Thread starter zhenghe1421
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TFSmith121
Banned
The ANV was in no position to win a victory at Gettysburg
The ANV was in no position to win a victory at Gettysburg.
Not with the AotP on the defensive, and Meade was sharp enough to avoid the mistakes that McClellan, Pope, Burnside, and Hooker had made on the offensive.
Best,
The ANV was in no position to win a victory at Gettysburg.
Not with the AotP on the defensive, and Meade was sharp enough to avoid the mistakes that McClellan, Pope, Burnside, and Hooker had made on the offensive.
Best,
The ANV could have most definitely won at Gettysburg in the early stages of the battle
Anyways if the casualties are too high then Lee will retreat, but if the casualties are low (which is quite hard) then Lee would move threateningly towards a city then go for Camp Curtin then Washington.
Anyways no Gettysburg at all is better for the Rebels, maybe Meade decides to not fight at Gettysburg. OTL when the first reports of battle and Reynolds death came in he considering withdrawing, because he wanted to fight elsewhere.
By 1862 there were 48 forts and batteries protecting Washington. Any Confederate victory at Gettysburg is going to be pyrrhic at best and after the Emancipation, Britain wasn't going to recognize the Confederacy. All a southern victory would do is draw out the war a little longer.
A different outcome won't change Vicksburg which had profound strategic implications for the Confederacy in opening up the way for direct invasion of the Deep South, cutting the Confederacy in two, and re-opening the length of the Mississippi for Union commerce. It will prolong things in the East but it isn't going to really do much to change that major blow or mitigate its effects.
Anaxagoras
Banned
Assuming the Army of Northern Virginia wins at Gettysburg, I imagine that they would heavily forage throughout south and perhaps central Pennsylvania, have a lot of fun tearing up railroads and burning bridges, then get back into Virginia while the getting was good. The campaign was really a massive raid rather than an invasion. I doubt Lee ever contemplated seizing and holding Union territory.
you know, every time i hear/read about a Confederate victory at Gettysburg, this immediately flashes in my head.
for sure by Day 2 its was Game Over for the Rebels. If we have a POD of Jackson not dying at Chancellorsville, I can almost surely think that the Round Tops would have been in Rebel hands but, again if we're dealing without a pod prior to G-burg well, yes in short not fighting at all, at least that location, would be better. Who was it, Hill? I can't remember but one of the brigades or divisions wasn't supposed to bring on an engagement but did which ended up starting the battle. But certainly R.E Lee under estimated Meade from the beginning, and thats a fact. He believed his own Myth and was arrogant and decieved by said myth from start to finish. BUT lets deal with the task; should he have had an early success and somehow managed a victory against the AoTP he may not needed have even gone anywhere else, maybe just find a better position against interior lines and let them come at them, if they did.
Yeah he moved threateningly towards cities but was never going to actually go for them
If Lee wins Gettysburg he heads back to Virginia because even after a "victory" it will be too beat up to accomplish much.
Anaxagoras
Banned
The "Lee Strategy" for winning the war, to the extent that he had one, essentially was to inflict a Cannae-level defeat on the Army of the Potomac in the hopes that this would frighten the Lincoln administration into seeking peace talks. It was not realistic and wouldn't have worked, but that was how he thought.
Lee went into Pennsylvania largely for logistical reasons, to give Virginia a break and supply his army by foraging in Union territory. But it was also to force the Army of the Potomac to respond to his movements so that he could seek battle under circumstances of his own choosing. I think Lee understood that he could not take Washington City. His target was the enemy army, not any enemy city.
Moreover, as he indicated in a letter to Jefferson Davis on June 10, 1863, Lee thought the South needed to be encouraging the peace movement in the Union (a rare and unsolicited bit of political advice, which shows how important Lee thought it was). Although he didn't mention the movement into Pennsylvania in his letter, the fact that Lee was thinking about it so much at the time suggests that he believed a Confederate victory on Northern soil would dishearten the hawks in the Union and encourage those who were beginning to push for peace.
Lee went into Pennsylvania largely for logistical reasons, to give Virginia a break and supply his army by foraging in Union territory. But it was also to force the Army of the Potomac to respond to his movements so that he could seek battle under circumstances of his own choosing. I think Lee understood that he could not take Washington City. His target was the enemy army, not any enemy city.
Moreover, as he indicated in a letter to Jefferson Davis on June 10, 1863, Lee thought the South needed to be encouraging the peace movement in the Union (a rare and unsolicited bit of political advice, which shows how important Lee thought it was). Although he didn't mention the movement into Pennsylvania in his letter, the fact that Lee was thinking about it so much at the time suggests that he believed a Confederate victory on Northern soil would dishearten the hawks in the Union and encourage those who were beginning to push for peace.
Not only this, but any battle would use up so much of the Confederate ammunition and supplies that they'll have to retreat. Another battle would be nigh-impossible.
TFSmith121
Banned
Plus, they can enslave some more civilians;
Plus, they can enslave some more civilians. All in a day's work for the Army of Northern Virginia...
http://deadconfederates.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/slavehunt.pdf
Best,
Plus, they can enslave some more civilians. All in a day's work for the Army of Northern Virginia...
http://deadconfederates.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/slavehunt.pdf
Best,
Lee allows Longstreet to flank Little Big Top and have success in causing the AoP to be defeated. I think that if Lee goes and attacks Camp Curtin and causes a lot of damage then the North is in a bind. Curtin was a major place to get soldiers from the Midwest and was a major rail center and was the biggest supply depot in the North. Certainly Lincoln would have had to face that another one of his generals had failed to beat the Army of Northern Virginia and then the civilians in the North would have faced what the war was like.
Anaxagoras
Banned
Well, imagine that Reynolds is two hours later than he was IOTL. That means that Buford is going to be pushed back off McPherson's Ridge and Seminary Ridge before the I Corps and XI Corps arrive in the vicinity. Reynolds may either retreat southwards or make a stand on Cemetery Hill.
If the former, the South wins, but it will be seen as a skirmish more than anything else. Meade will form the Army of the Potomac along the Pipe Creek line as he had planned. Lincoln will not stand for a defensive posture, though, as he made it clear that Meade's goal would be to destroy Lee's army as much as protect Washington and Baltimore. This means that Lee would probably get to choose the battlefield and circumstances under which the eventual battle would be fought and would likely win.
If the latter, Reynolds is going to have to fight a battle on decent defensive ground but while heavily outnumbered, no time to dig in, and with plenty of daylight left. The XI Corps, in any event, was the least reliable unit in the Army of the Potomac and would probably not perform any better under these circumstances than it did IOTL. The result would be pretty much the same as it was on the first day of battle IOTL, with heavy fighting eventually resulting in a rout of the Union forces. Except in this case, there would be no stand on defensive ground on the battlefield with nightfall saving the Union forces. Instead, Meade would order a fallback to Pipe Creek. This would leave the Confederates the clear winners, having smashed the Union forces and ending up in possession of the battlefield.
The ultimate target of General Lee's* northern offensive was most likely Washington, D.C., but as to his immediate next objectives? Not sure. I do agree with TFSmith121 however, in saying that the Army of Northern Virginia had no honest chance at winning. From the moment Lee consented to fight on General Meade's terms, he lost the battle.
* I oftentimes refer to him as Colonel Lee, that being the highest rank he reached in U.S. service, but have not done so here so as to avoid confusion.
* I oftentimes refer to him as Colonel Lee, that being the highest rank he reached in U.S. service, but have not done so here so as to avoid confusion.
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In the immediate aftermath the Confederates will probably try to obtain as much food as possible from the local area. This was part of the reason they invaded PA in the first place.
I'm not sure how supportive the locals would be, i read some where that the city of York PA cheered the Confederate Army when it entered.
I'm not sure how supportive the locals would be, i read some where that the city of York PA cheered the Confederate Army when it entered.