WI: Emperor Leo V 'the Armenian' isn't assassinated?

ByzantineLover · Jan 25, 2015

Byzantine Emperor Leo V 'the Armenian', despite reinstating iconoclasm, is considered a compentant administrator even by his critics. IOTL, he was assassinated by followers of Michael II, and the resulting rebellion of Thomas the Slav may have played a part in the subsequent Muslim conquests of Sicily, Southern Italy and Crete.

Suppose Leo isn't assassinated and Michael is executed. Leo has four sons and a 30-year truce with the Bulgarians, but Iconoclasm has been weakened since the days of Constantine V. Might he or one of his successors be convinced to give up Iconoclasm? Would the Bulgarians still convert to Christianity? Iconoclasm or no iconoclasm, Leo still tried to associate himself with the Isaurian dynasty. Should something happen to his wife, Theodosia, might he remarry to Constantine VI's daughter Euphrosyne, the way Michael II did IOTL?

I'm just throwing out points.

ByzantineLover · Jan 26, 2015

Bump to first page.

Jonathan · Jan 26, 2015

ByzantineLover said:
Suppose Leo isn't assassinated and Michael is executed.

So Michael the Amorian is executed on 19th December, after Leo is informed of a planned assassination.

ByzantineLover said:
Leo has four sons and a 30-year truce with the Bulgarians, but Iconoclasm has been weakened since the days of Constantine V. Might he or one of his successors be convinced to give up Iconoclasm?

The first major impact is that none of Leo's four sons, Symbatios, Basil, Gregory and Theodosios, are exiled and castrated, meaning that there are four men to carry on the family dynasty.

Also Malamir of Bulgaria, who will reign from 831-836 has no heir, so if Leo lives to the age of 66 or older, he could try and put his son on the throne of the First Bulgarian Empire, marrying a female Bulgarian royal.

ByzantineLover said:
Would the Bulgarians still convert to Christianity?

ByzantineLover said:
Iconoclasm or no iconoclasm, Leo still tried to associate himself with the Isaurian dynasty. Should something happen to his wife, Theodosia, might he remarry to Constantine VI's daughter Euphrosyne, the way Michael II did IOTL?

I would believe that Leo would want, his first son and heir to the throne, Symbatios to marry Euphrosyne, so that he too can have a heir to the throne.

ByzantineLover · Jan 26, 2015

Jonathan said:
So Michael the Amorian is executed on 19th December, after Leo is informed of a planned assassination.

Was that the date Michael was originally arrested? In that case, I'm not sure why Leo delayed. Comradeship, perhaps? I tend to see Leo the Armenian, Michael the Amorian and Thomas the Slav as a triumvirate of friends/allies, similar to Ricimer, Majorian and Aegidius.

Jonathan said:
The first major impact is that none of Leo's four sons, Symbatios, Basil, Gregory and Theodosios, are exiled and castrated, meaning that there are four men to carry on the family dynasty.

Also Malamir of Bulgaria, who will reign from 831-836 has no heir, so if Leo lives to the age of 66 or older, he could try and put his son on the throne of the First Bulgarian Empire, marrying a female Bulgarian royal.

A better candidate, especially if Leo reconverts to orthodoxy, would Malamir's older brother Enravota, who was excluded from the succession because he favoured Christianity and was converted between 831 and 833, his execution.

Jonathan said:
I would believe that Leo would want, his first son and heir to the throne, Symbatios to marry Euphrosyne, so that he too can have a heir to the throne.

Well, Euphrosyne was born in 790 AD. The exact ages of Leo's children aren't known, only that Constantine (Symbatios) was "still small" when his father came to the throne, which could be anything from an infant to a preteen.

ByzantineLover · Jan 27, 2015

Anyone else?

Jonathan · Jan 27, 2015

ByzantineLover said:
Was that the date Michael was originally arrested? In that case, I'm not sure why Leo delayed. Comradeship, perhaps? I tend to see Leo the Armenian, Michael the Amorian and Thomas the Slav as a triumvirate of friends/allies, similar to Ricimer, Majorian and Aegidius.

This is five days earlier as Michael became disgruntled with Leo V, when the Emperor divorced Michael's sister-in-law. On Christmas Eve 820, Leo V accused him of conspiracy, jailed him, and sentenced him to death but postponed the execution until after Christmas.
So I though have him arrested earlier and executed before Christmas meaning Michael is unable to send his message to his co-conspirators threatening to reveal their identity, whereupon his partisans freed him and murdered Leo V during the Christmas mass in the palace chapel of St. Stephen.

ByzantineLover said:
A better candidate, especially if Leo reconverts to orthodoxy, would Malamir's older brother Enravota, who was excluded from the succession because he favoured Christianity and was converted between 831 and 833, his execution.

Would the Bulgarian's respect Enravota, and would Enravota work well with Leo? Would Enravota be able to convert the rest of his nation to Christianity.

ByzantineLover said:
Well, Euphrosyne was born in 790 AD. The exact ages of Leo's children aren't known, only that Constantine (Symbatios) was "still small" when his father came to the throne, which could be anything from an infant to a preteen.

Oh ok, so it will be easier to have Enravota as Tsar of Bulgaria, then having Constantine (Symbatios)?

ByzantineLover · Jan 27, 2015

Jonathan said:
This is five days earlier as Michael became disgruntled with Leo V, when the Emperor divorced Michael's sister-in-law. On Christmas Eve 820, Leo V accused him of conspiracy, jailed him, and sentenced him to death but postponed the execution until after Christmas.
So I though have him arrested earlier and executed before Christmas meaning Michael is unable to send his message to his co-conspirators threatening to reveal their identity, whereupon his partisans freed him and murdered Leo V during the Christmas mass in the palace chapel of St. Stephen.

I'm pretty sure Leo V's wife and the mother of all his children was Theodosia, daughter of the patrician Arsaber. Michael I's wife Prokopia referred to Leo's wife as 'Barca' (the Greek word for boat), originally thought to be the name of another wife (and a daughter of Bardanes Tourkos, like Thekla, wife of Michael II, is thought to be) but now thought to be a term of derision.

Jonathan said:
Would the Bulgarian's respect Enravota, and would Enravota work well with Leo? Would Enravota be able to convert the rest of his nation to Christianity.

IOTL, there were rebellions against Boris I after he converted to Christianity, but they were eventually crushed. No reason why such couldn't happen here.

Jonathan said:
Oh ok, so it will be easier to have Enravota as Tsar of Bulgaria, then having Constantine (Symbatios)?

At least someone Leo can influence or negotiate with (preferably from a position of strength).

ByzantineLover · Feb 1, 2015

Bumping again. Is information about Leo V quite scarce?

ByzantineLover · May 8, 2015

Bumping again for interest.