What if: Poland-Lithuania betrayed Austria?

What would happen if Poland-Lithuania betrayed Austria at Battle of Vienna, and allied Ottoman Empire? Poland-Lithuania and Ottomans had the same rival - Russia, so let's say that Mehmed IV didn't care about religious differences and that Austria would lose against their forces combined.


PS. Sorry for my english, it's not my native language

Needs a bit more specificity. Did Poland-Lithuania betray Austria, or did the Polish king?

Because it seems to me they'd have different effects. Even so, Sobieski (so sayeth wiki) had tried to ally France and the Ottomans before, so it wouldn't be too shocking.

The risky bit is that others will respond. For all we know it leads to a 4-party partition of Poland (Austria-Brandenburg-Sweden-Russia)... Or simply another deluge as the Polish-Ottoman forces can't hold Poland but as the Ottomans remain roughly unbeaten Poland is overrun and again torn apart for a decade.

Or it might be a grand success, Austria is removed from the European map, and the next conflict sees Franco-Polish battles on the Elbe.

avernite said:

Needs a bit more specificity. Did Poland-Lithuania betray Austria, or did the Polish king?

Because it seems to me they'd have different effects. Even so, Sobieski (so sayeth wiki) had tried to ally France and the Ottomans before, so it wouldn't be too shocking.

The risky bit is that others will respond. For all we know it leads to a 4-party partition of Poland (Austria-Brandenburg-Sweden-Russia)... Or simply another deluge as the Polish-Ottoman forces can't hold Poland but as the Ottomans remain roughly unbeaten Poland is overrun and again torn apart for a decade.

Or it might be a grand success, Austria is removed from the European map, and the next conflict sees Franco-Polish battles on the Elbe.

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Hope for the last option.

I doubt Austria would be removed from the map. Though she would be hobbled she still had what was left of Spain's help. The real issue for Poland would be the diplomatic situation afterwards, especially seeing as Austria had assisted Poland in The Deluge, albeit for monetary compensation if I recall correctly. Besides the Ottomans were still technically at war with Poland at the time. I see no reason for them not to attack Poland-Lithuania after they've knocked Austria down a peg and recovered. And at such a time Sweden and Russia are sure to take advantage of the situation.

avernite said:

Needs a bit more specificity. Did Poland-Lithuania betray Austria, or did the Polish king?

Click to expand...

I mean if Poland-Lithuania betrayed Austria

Benevolence said:

I doubt Austria would be removed from the map. Though she would be hobbled she still had what was left of Spain's help. The real issue for Poland would be the diplomatic situation afterwards, especially seeing as Austria had assisted Poland in The Deluge, albeit for monetary compensation if I recall correctly. Besides the Ottomans were still technically at war with Poland at the time. I see no reason for them not to attack Poland-Lithuania after they've knock Austria down a peg and recovered. And at such a time Sweden and Russia are sure to take advantage of the situation.

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But let's say that Ottomans were loyal to Poland-Lithuania or that Poland-Lithuania secured alliance with taking a hostage

Anton2181 1 said:

I mean if Poland-Lithuania betrayed Austria




But let's say that Ottomans were loyal to Poland-Lithuania or that Poland-Lithuania secured alliance with taking a hostage

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Given the timeframe, there's no real incentive for such. Only real incentive would be an alliance or understanding against Russia, but most Russo-Turkish wars up to that point to my knowledge were overall inconclusive. I'm inclined to believe that any treaty would be like the Treaty of Buchach/Buczaz which made the PLC an ottoman vassal technically.
To be frank Austria and Poland needed each other against the Ottomans. The other neighboring powers are either too hostile (Sweden, Russia/Muscovy, Bradenburg given the right incentive) or far away: say France for instance she will only ally Poland to contain Habsburg Austria. If Austria is knocked out, France has no reason to help Poland out, and she also had an understanding/alliance with Sweden for the exact same purpose (contain the Habsburgs). No catholic power will help after such an incident and England is far too removed and has trade links with the Ottomans as well.

But let's say for argument such an alliance is made. The Ottomans may help fight off Russia but I don't really see them campaigning against Sweden in Poland's defense.

Given what all parties involved wanted, the Austrian Habsburgs and Poland-Lithuania were natural allies, since the latter were also threatened by the Ottomans.

I'm even not too sure how France would respond to too successful Ottomans.

Also it should be noted, Austria (and the rest of the Holy Alliance) paid for Poland-Lithuania's troops the moment they crossed over from Poland-Lithuania's territory and PLC also had the first pickings of plunder from the Ottoman camp to serve as compensation for their services. So it's not like they just saved Austria without any gain from it or on a whim.

If there is one thing that the Ottomans would offer PLC something as a bribe against Austria, it would be SILESIA...why, there is still a significant Polish Population in Silesia although a minority, the dialect of Silesia USED to be important since it is closer to the Old Cracovian one till things changed to make the dialect of Mazovia more known.