To Imjin or Not: That is the Timeline

"No," the Wanli Emperor said. "The foolish Ribenren (old name for Cipanguans) believe that they will be able to subdue Corea. I suppose they will try to invade us, but how? They would only get as far as Liaodong. No, I say that we cut Riben (old name for Cipangu) off from Corea. We don't have to waste money flooding Corea with our troops when we can block the supply of Ribenren in Corea."
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The POD is that the Wanli Emperor refuses to intervene in the Imjin War (called the Caule War in this TL), except for using the underused Ming navy.

IOTL there was a faction dedicated to not entering the Imjin War. ITTL, this faction is stronger, and Wanli agrees.
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June 3, 1592 in Daegu, Gyeongsang Province, Joseon:

“Is the Second Division here!?” Kato Kiyomasa shouted, his face blushing red in anger.

“Hai!”

“Good. We have arrived in Busan.”

“Hai!”

“Is Kuroda Nagamasa here?”

“Hai!”

“Where is he?”

“Hai-uh...er...Nakdong.”

“Okay. I’ve been resting for the past week, since my stomach hurt after that ship ride.”

“Hai!”

“What progress have you guys made?”

“Hai! Um...we mean to say that we’ve captured Tongdo and Kyongju.”

“Good, those weak Corean barbarians bow to our might. After all, even the Chinese recognize the futility of fighting against us. And where is Konishi Yukinaga?”

"He's with the First Division. They just recently captured and destroyed this city."

“Oh, is that why the city is burning?”

“...”

“HEY!” a Cipanguan man shouted from inside the city, having spotted Kato. “KATO!!!”

“Er...hi? Do I know you?”

The man grinned. “Of course! Remember me? I’m Konishi Yukinaga!”

“Konishi...what are you doing?”

“Getting my money’s worth for this expedition!” Konishi yelled back. “So far, I’ve killed thirty four Coreans. We’re having a killing contest here in Daegu, you see.”

“What?” Kato asked. “You didn’t tell me about this earlier? You guys got a head start! This isn’t fair!”

“You can still join,” Konishi said. “Come on!”

The two warriors descended into chaos.

[-] I am in no way endorsing this violent bloodshed. I’m not sure exactly what happened in Daegu, but they city was destroyed. If it was anything like Nanjing, this is probably something that would have happened.

You write em good, Zhugeliang. You write em good.

zeppelinair said:

You write em good, Zhugeliang. You write em good.

Click to expand...

Hey, this was quick. So is my next update

June 8, 1592 in the Gyeongbokgung, Hanseong, Joseon:​

“Frick! Frick! Frick! Shoot!” [1]

“What is it, your majesty?”

King Seonjo sighed. “That damned Wanli! I swear, back in my day, the Ming didn’t ignore me like this-!”

“Sir...”

“No, aide, this is a serious problem. My life is at risk?”

“You forget, sir, that my life is at risk, too. And almost every Corean’s life, too.”

“Psh, who cares about that!”

“Excuse me? I CARE ABOUT MY LIFE!”

“Uh, yeah...” Seonjo chuckled weakly. Somehow, the aide always had a knife on her - and it wasn’t because his hands wandered. Really! “Your life matters. Really.”

“Uh huh,” Jin Jeong said, nodding. “Now, what were you screaming about?”

The king flushed crimson red. “I wasn’t screaming!”

“Uh huh,” the servant said. “Really.”

“No, really!”

Chung sighed. “Whatever. What’s the problem?”

The king brightened up. Jeong had been his servant ever since...since...uh...well, as far back as he could remember. It had even been her who encouraged him to favor the Confucians a little bit more. “Well, the Cipanguans have invaded-”

“Not that problem,” Jeong said, rolling her eyes. “Everyone knows that. No, why are you cursing at the Wanli Emperor?”

“Er... He’s not going to help us in this war.”

“WHAT?”

“Uh, that came out wrong. He said that he would lend us his ships to block Cipanguans ships from entering.”

“...”

“I know, Jeong.”

“It could have been worse,” she said weakly. “Could have been.”

“See?” Seonjo said. “I feel better now. Thanks.”

“Why not look to the Jianzhou Jurchens, then?” Jeong said, thinking about it. “The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a good idea! Off you go!”

“What?”

“See, the Chinese won’t aid you. That means you’re going to have to turn elsewhere. You’re not asking the Cipanguans for aid, so ask the Jurchens!”

“Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...”

“Yeah. I feel smart now,” Jeong said. “Now GO!”

“Yessir!”

“I’M NOT A SIR!”

“Yessir!”

Jeong let out a sigh.

[1] This part has been censored and changed.

Swearing and cussing is allowed on Ah.com, you know.

zeppelinair said:

Swearing and cussing is allowed on Ah.com, you know.

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True, but I don't really like doing it myself.

Besides...uh...I have no other excuse.

Ok so the Ming aren't intervening, Question is what are Japanese going to about their crappy ships, and the fact Hideyoshi might be a tad unstable in some of his actions by this point?

In case you don't know, this is my first pre-1900 timeline (I'm sorry for abandoning like half of my TLs [but this is my third {whatever}]).

The POD is pretty big, but wait till later to judge

This is not going to be a Korea-screw, too. It might be in the beginning, but that's because they got ditched in the beginning of a war. Things will change. Korea will look better in the end, especially given the slavery and corruption of Joseon.

BBadolato said:

Ok so the Ming aren't intervening, Question is what are Japanese going to about their crappy ships, and the fact Hideyoshi might be a tad unstable in some of his actions by this point?

Click to expand...

That will indeed influence things later on.
Also Zhu, the reasons China intervened OTL is because it's much more convenient to try block the Japanese in mountainous Korea than flat Liaodong, so you're gonna have to make a good argument on that issue.

ZhugeLiang said:

In case you don't know, this is my first pre-1900 timeline (I'm sorry for abandoning like half of my TLs [but this is my third {whatever}]).

The POD is pretty big, but wait till later to judge

This is not going to be a Korea-screw, too. It might be in the beginning, but that's because they got ditched in the beginning of a war.

Click to expand...

Well if you can find enough information for it to work good luck.

I'm only wondering just how temporary the Japanese presence in Korea is gonna be because even if Japan could conquer Korea, the Japanese domestic situation is far from ideal. Hideyoshi currently has his nephew as heir but has him killed off on rumors 3 years later, with his son Hideyori being born in 1593. Tokugawa Ieyasu is sitting the war out and biding his time, so when Hideyoshi croaks I can't see Korea being kept as a priority.

BBadolato said:

Ok so the Ming aren't intervening, Question is what are Japanese going to about their crappy ships, and the fact Hideyoshi might be a tad unstable in some of his actions by this point?

Click to expand...

The Japanese aren't going to do anything, so we might see some Admiral Yi here If they barely did anything IOTL, and right now their gamble is working, they have no reason to change anything.

As to Hideyoshi...um...no spoilers, I guess?

zeppelinair said:

That will indeed influence things later on.
Also Zhu, the reasons China intervened OTL is because it's much more convenient to try block the Japanese in mountainous Korea than flat Liaodong, so you're gonna have to make a good argument on that issue.

Click to expand...

Btw Zhuge Liang isn't my name, in case you're curious.

Yeah, that's why China intervened IOTL. But what originally happened was that Korea sent a message for help to the governor at Liaodong who sent some local forces. Then the Emperor decided to join in.

Basically this is just a thought experiment, a little WI. Don't worry, SOMEONE eventually intervenes.

BBadolato said:

Well if you can find enough information for it to work good luck.

I'm only wondering just how temporary the Japanese presence in Korea is gonna be because even if Japan could conquer Korea, the Japanese domestic situation is far from ideal. Hideyoshi currently has his nephew as heir but has him killed off on rumors 3 years later, with his son Hideyori being born in 1593. Tokugawa Ieyasu is sitting the war out and biding his time, so when Hideyoshi croaks I can't see Korea being kept as a priority.

Click to expand...

Hey, when did I say that the Japanese were going to conquer Korea?

Mwahahahaha

August 3, 1592 in the Forbidden City, Beijing, China:​

“Holy shoot!” [1]

“IKR! This is sooooouper surprising!”

The Wanli Emperor put his head in his hands despairingly. “It was a big mistake to abandon Corea.”

“IKR!”

“They’ve already captured Hanseong!”

“IKR!”

“In fact, I think we’re lucky that the Corean civilians have decided to take up arms.”

“IKR!”

“We should supply them, actually,” the Emperor said.

“IKR!”

“Send notice to them. And bring several hundred fire lances.”

“Yessir!”

[1] Yes, this part’s been edited and censored, too.

Hei KongMing, this timeline is great!

But did not that Wanli emperor care nothing about the politics and administration?

gianni_rivera said:

Hei KongMing, this timeline is great!

But did not that Wanli emperor care nothing about the politics and administration?

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That happened after the Imjin War, when the bureaucracy refused to let him pick his heir. He eventually gave in and stopped doing government-stuff.

And yay, here's a fellow who's read San Guo!

September 15, 1592 in Cangcon, Land of the Jianzhou Jurchens:​

“OMG!”

“WTF!”

“IKR!”

“NO WAY!”

“SRSLY?”

“WTH!”

“What?” Nurhaci asked.

“It seems that this super cray kid called Kato Kiyomasa decided to attack one of our forts.”

“WHAT?”

“Yeah, with 20,000 other troops,” another Jurchen interjected quickly. “It was, like, so scary.”

“WHAT!?!? True Jurchen warriors do not talk that way-!”

“So he just, like, comes charging out of nowhere-”

“Not possible,” Nurhaci stated flatly. “No freakin’ way.”

“-screaming ‘YO LOWLY FATSOS! Yeah, you! I’m talking about you, Jianzhou Jurchens! You know, the ones that even these scrubby Coreans call barbarians!’, and us people in the fort were super scared.”

“Okay, so?”

“So, like, we were just across the Tumen River in our safe little fort. And then he comes along.”

“So? Get to the point.”

“It’s a miracle I’m still alive,” the commander said. “Him and this other dude - forgot his name - went on this huge killing spree in our fort. They’re coming soon. I only arrived faster because of My Little Pony.”

Nurhaci snorted. “Why did he do this, again?”

“Well,” the commander said, wringing his hands. “I think he thought that he could reach our capital in no time at all. You know, like a total idiot.”

“Huh,” Nurhaci said, sneering. “THEN I DEFY YOU, STARS!”

“What?” the commander asked, lost.

“I DECLARE WAR ON CIPANGU!”

Everyone in court fainted at Nurhaci’s daringness and manliness. “Oh my gosh,” his wife said, right before fainting. “I knew I made the right choice in this husband.”

Right then, the Joseon king Seonjo came running in with his assistant and servant, Jin Jeong. “Hiya! Is that a declaration of war I hear?”

“Yes, boy.”

“YAY!” Seonjo shouted, hugging Jeong. “We’re saved.”

“Hey-”

“The barbarians are going to give us aid!”

“HEY! FREELOADER, GET BACK HERE-”

A torrent of giggles interrupted his anger as the two shot back south.

“Why did you do it?” Jeong cried.

“Er...he told me to?”

“OMG UR SO DUMB!”

“What exactly did I do this time?”

“...Tell me that you know how stupid you are.”

“I know.”

“Okay. You know how Nurhaci said that he would have to come south, right?”

“Yeah.”

“And you let him!”

“Well, yeah. What else could I do?” Seonjo asked.

Jeong was breathing heavily. “The reports I have here say that he’s captured everything north of Paju!”

“WHAT!????”

“Yes, that’s right. We’re endangered from the north AND the south AND the east!”

“At least we’re not in danger from the west...” the king said, looking for some bright spot.

“Um, no. The Japanese navy is there.”

“What? What happened to the Ming navy?”

“Oh, that’s how Japan’s getting its armies here. The Ming are mostly only blocking the route through Tsushima.”

“FRICK!”

“Your majesty, we’re going to have to...”

“Leave?”

“No. Seonjo, I’ve been loyal to you my whole life.” She sucked in a deep breath, calming herself. “If you’re going to die...I’m going with you.”

“What’s with all this talk about dying?” Seonjo asked, clueless.

Jeong facepalmed. “One second, Nurhaci’s almost here.”

“YOUR MAJESTY!” A messenger shouted, running into the room. “Uh...should I leave you two to your thing?”

Jeong snarled. “GIVE US THE MESSAGE, BOY!” Evidently, she was mad that the messenger had mistaken her for the king’s wife.

“Uh...uh...sure. Nurhaci means to tell you that you can remain the Duke of Hanseong once he reaches here.”

“Um, sure!” Seonjo said. “Sure!”

“NOOOOOOOOOO!” Jeong cried as the messenger returned back north. “YOU STUPID BOY!”

“What? I don’t want us to die!”

“Boy. When I get my hands on you...”

Seonjo screamed, running away from the angry female.

This could be in a middle school setting. With everybody texting each other the dialogue.

zeppelinair said:

This could be in a middle school setting. With everybody texting each other the dialogue.

Click to expand...

Or maybe...

...it's a Korean drama...

...and we just don't know it!

“I need a new name,” Nurhaci muttered, pacing back and forth. “A new name...”

“Scared of your old one?” Seonjo taunted from his cage.

“Psh, no. My tribe doesn’t need to be called ‘Jianzhou Jurchens’ by the Chinese. I just need a new name.”

“Psh, that’s what they all say.”

“Quiet, you. Hmmmm...”

“If I may suggest a name-”

“-ooh, a name? Tell me!”

“Er...what exactly are you looking for?”

“Something that means the opposite of Joseon. Opposite - do you hear me? Opposite! Not the same, opposite!”

“I heard you the first time,” Seonjo said. “Joseon means ‘Land of the Morning Sun’. Want any ideas?”

“NO!” Nurhaci boomed. “I will think of some ideas...”

“Dumbbutt? No...that sounds too regal.”

“Qing? No...that sounds like an icky Chinese name.”


“Jin? No...that sounds like one of my wives’ names. I seriously need an idea! SEONJO!”

“I’m right here!” the ex-king shouted. “You’re hurting my ears!”

“Sorry,” Nurhaci said unapologetically. “Give me a name.”

“Balhae?” Seonjo muttered.

“Ah! Balhae! Sounds magnificent, Yes, my dynasty will be the Balhae dynasty!”

“Cool story, bro. Tell it again.”

“And you’re going to declare me the next emperor of Corea.

“WHOA, WUT?”

“Yes, exactly what I said.”

“Curse you to heck!”

Wait so if Nurhaci has named his dynasty the Balhae dynasty then why is the newest post labeled "Yaman Corea"?

Also, "emperor of Corea" seems to imply parity with the other emperors of the region, so no vassalage to the Ming, I guess. Loss of a vassal coupled with rising assertiveness among the "barbarians" should set Ming on edge. I'm guessing that Wanli also hasn't given up on governing at this point in the timeline, so a look at Ming's reaction to developments in Korea would be cool