The Axis effectively use Bioweapons on the US
- Thread starter wtw
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I'm sure we can find a scenario where the Nazis unleash biological weapons on other nations... So not as asb as you may think.
Germany didn't invest a lot in its bio-weapons program compared to Imperial Japan. A Himmler led government in the 30s might have been closer in terms of interest in that area to some of the IJA militarists, but you would still need something like a gas war against each others cities that just heats up until Anthrax and other weaponized bugs are being used against each other.
Replacing the professional German Army in 1934 with a straight on revolutionary National Socialist army would be a start down that direction, but it would take quite some changes.
Going by Paxman and Harris, Imperial Germany did resort to disease weapons in the First World War- on American soil no less, attempting to poison draft horses being sold and shipped to the entente. Perhaps someone remembers?
According to Ken Alibek, there was a major tularemia outbreak around Stalingrad that had the distinct appearance of unnaturality about it, August '42; so Germany has been in the biological weapons game, as perpetrator and victim.
So yes, quite within the bounds of reality, to the point where, like their stocks of nerve gas, the question becomes why they didn't.
The mechanism is distinctly questionable, though- how precisely do you infect someone with a U-boat? Granted the things themselves were hellishly unhygenic and you probably would come down with something serving on one, if the depth charges spared you long enough, but that's not really a reliable vector.
What are we talking about here, landing operatives? Shell fire with toxin rounds? What biological agent? The devil is in the details.
According to Ken Alibek, there was a major tularemia outbreak around Stalingrad that had the distinct appearance of unnaturality about it, August '42; so Germany has been in the biological weapons game, as perpetrator and victim.
So yes, quite within the bounds of reality, to the point where, like their stocks of nerve gas, the question becomes why they didn't.
The mechanism is distinctly questionable, though- how precisely do you infect someone with a U-boat? Granted the things themselves were hellishly unhygenic and you probably would come down with something serving on one, if the depth charges spared you long enough, but that's not really a reliable vector.
What are we talking about here, landing operatives? Shell fire with toxin rounds? What biological agent? The devil is in the details.
Not ASB at all. If not the submarine part, but that's amendable. The Japanese carrier subs would be perfect for taking off in the night, spraying stuff around from low altitude and land at dawn.
The problem is first to imagine what weapons would be effective enough, and then in the retaliation.
For the first one, Tabun springs to mind as a non-biological but very lethal option. For more potent options there are some, but it takes a long concentrated effort.
The POD is not difficult though. Hitler doesn't get injured by Mustard gas or alternatively, his emotional reaction is revenge rather than disgust.
Operation Vegetarian, followed by some variation of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8stkqssLYc
Compared to the allies the axis were children in terms of bio weapon development. The US had aerosolized small pox and the British massive stocks of anthrax.
Germany under Hitler didn't invest in that area of research heavily, because he never intended the war to go in that direction. A different Nazi leader and Germany could have an even more advanced bio weapons program then the WAllies given the ability to use people in camps as unwilling subjects on mass.
Hitler's underlying mindset was one of social darwinism that if 'his so called race' in man to man conventional conflict was defeated under force of arms by say the Slavic peoples then in his mind they deserved to be a slave race or destroyed by the winner.
That line of thinking while twisted as all hell is not actually conducive to a plan to bring the whole world's population down with them via germs if Germany is losing the war. There were different strains of thinking among the Nazi leaders that would be more much more conducive to planning for what would effectively be a offensive biowarfare apocalypse.
But, you would also need a set of military leaders in charge in Germany that if they did hear the leadership was intending an apocalypse option wouldn't make sure there would be open warfare across Berlin within hours of it being decided upon. Even the wusses among the Field Marshals that OTL decided they would rather live a few more years then try to save Germany in 43 and 44 would be thinking very differently when faced with a governmental plan that would kill them all by proxy and everyone they know.
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The problem with any use of bio-weapons (actually any weapons) by the Axis against the US - is how do you get them there and how do you spread them effectively.
An easier target would be the UK then the USSR at least for Germany.
The Japanese incendiary balloon program used over the Pacific North-West could be converted to spread biological agents but again would be relatively hit & miss. IIRCL correctly this killed or injured half a dozen people & if they were infected instead it may kill a few hundred.
If this is recognised as a bio-weapon attack rather than a natural outbreak then it may change targeting priorities once the atomic bomb is developed.
An easier target would be the UK then the USSR at least for Germany.
The Japanese incendiary balloon program used over the Pacific North-West could be converted to spread biological agents but again would be relatively hit & miss. IIRCL correctly this killed or injured half a dozen people & if they were infected instead it may kill a few hundred.
If this is recognised as a bio-weapon attack rather than a natural outbreak then it may change targeting priorities once the atomic bomb is developed.
Not as hard as you think. A few of the most hard core Nazi fanatics who spoke English/American and knew farming being shipped over to live before the war with the germs and more that get to them various methods and they enact their plans before hostilities even commence.
Once you have decided before the war to plan such a option actually executing it before the nation in question enters the war would be the most adventagious time from an amoral prospective as long as your people don't get caught because no one would believe it's man made.
Germany could have even sent out fake news reports about a similar blight to their crops at the same time making it look like a normal plague and unless one of the SS farmers gets caught it actually could create the conditions where the British and American public and political class won't be giving a fig what happens in Poland by the time the war starts.
It would be just about the most evil plan ever executed, but it would require years of planning and organizing that would even in a Totalitarian state be hard to keep secret and if the secret comes out of the bag then...
Hitler's line of thinking didn't lend itself to that kind of planning.
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Yes, but there isn't a bioweapon that affect both animals and crops. Come to think of it, a bioweapon that effects plants probably wouldn't spread too far anyway, so it would be ineffective. Also, I doubt you could find one agent that would both affect more than one type of crop, and will spread well.
You also have to consider the sheer size of us/Canadian farm land which is what at least double the size of all of germany. Operation vegetarian would have been a far more large scale effort involving nearly all of Britain's heavy bomber force. A few ss men wouldn't be able to infect nearly the same area.
That depends if you can get your "agents" (human and otherwise) into the crop-dusting program now doesn't it
The main issue with bio-warfare is simply that you can only "control" a couple of generations of the weapon IF you are lucky (and very, very good) and after that you have about an even chance of getting something you can't control at all.
It's good if you really want to ensure "nobody wins" in the end but it's not really an effective means for a CONTROLLED war which is what any military worth the name ACTUALLY wants. Artillery, Air Power, Tanks, etc, even nukes, is all about applying finite and overwhelming force against a precise (as possible) target to have a determined and consistent outcome that is predictable AND controllable. Even if the exact outcome isn't what was planned the overall effects can be gauged, gamed, or foreseen with some precision. The majority of your "cheap" WMDs however are notoriously unreliable and the outcomes can and have been exactly opposite of that "planned" which is why they are NOT used by most everyone. Short-term they may provide an acceptable outcome in a limited area but they are not going to be very effective on a strategic level unless used openly in massive quantities which invites retaliation in kind. Or worse.
The Allies let it be know right from the beginning that use of war-gasses would be replied to in kind and massively if used by the Axis. It's a credit that even loosing the Axis never seriously considered it as an actual strategy.
In the end them trying to use a bio-weapons would have been even more futile than using war-gasses and ultimately useless considering the outcome of the rather "conventional" war being waged. Considering how many "die-hard" fanatics both Germany and Japan had it's actually a wonder no one actually TRIED something like that but in the former case most of the "die-hards" were given up by their nominal superiors to PREVENT such a thing and in the latter they were ordered by the Emperor NOT to do so which ended that discussion right there.
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It's actually called The Anglo/American-Nazi War, although neither country gets hit by bio weapons (directly).