General Precolonial Philippines Ideas Thread

The Forty-Eighth Rōnin · Feb 2, 2016

This should serve as the superthread for any TL ideas regarding the precolonial period of Philippine history. Feel free to post your ideas here.

Some examples (courtesy of shadowkiller91234567):

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=317417

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=336652

ramones1986 · Feb 2, 2016

I know this is quite cranky, but how about a people speaking a direct descendant of proto-Philippine language ended up in a region consists of OTL provinces of Bulacan, Manila and Cavite.

And also, the ancestors of Tausug people ended up settling in the area near the Butuanons, most specifically OTL eastern Misamis Oriental.

Erizium · Feb 2, 2016

Probably balkanization, with one or two countries per island, resulting in greater Indian, Chinese, Muslim, and Malay influence. I'm not sure if this could have the 'Philippines' (as we know not what it could be called) form unions with Brunei or other Malay kingdoms

Timaeus · Feb 2, 2016

I find the phrase 'precolonial Philippines' a bit disconcerting, if only because it implies the Philippines was a single region in those days instead of the confederations of barangays and sultanates it actually was in those days, but okay.

We could have a Bruneian thalassocratic hegemony ('empire' would imply a centralized system that does not exist considering the political structures of the region) ruling from Sarawak to Mindanao with a Manila vassal state with a PoD in 1500 or so making Brunei a stronger player in the region.

kasumigenx · Feb 2, 2016

What about Majapahit and Hindu Balinese and Hindu Javanese fleeing to Luzon after the Christianization and Islamization of Nusa Tengarra and Bali, Java and Sumatra.

The Forty-Eighth Rōnin · Feb 2, 2016

I've been thinking of a Three Kingdoms scenario.

mlp · Feb 2, 2016

Captain Orange said:
I've been thinking of a Three Kingdoms scenario.

I demand to hear it.

kasumigenx · Feb 2, 2016

A Historian told me that downtown METRO MANILA was uninhabited till late 1400's..

The Forty-Eighth Rōnin · Feb 2, 2016

zeppelinair said:
I demand to hear it.

A united Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao, respectively.

The Forty-Eighth Rōnin · Feb 2, 2016

What if Magellan lands at Taiwan instead of Visayas?

kasumigenx · Feb 2, 2016

Captain Orange said:
A united Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao, respectively.

Captain Orange said:
What if Magellan lands at Taiwan instead of Visayas?

Actually, an Philippines with OTL borders is ASB without outside interference due to Luzon and Sulu under Majapahit influence and Tondo was allied with Medang, but a surviving bornean empire is a Philippines wank.

The Forty-Eighth Rōnin · Feb 3, 2016

kasumigenx said:
Actually, an Philippines with OTL borders is ASB without outside interference due to Luzon and Sulu under Majapahit influence and Tondo was allied with Medang, but a surviving bornean empire is a Philippines wank.

I think you misunderstood.

What I meant was a single kingdom per island group. Thus the Three Kingdoms scenario.

kasumigenx · Feb 3, 2016

Captain Orange said:
I think you misunderstood.

What I meant was a single kingdom per island group. Thus the Three Kingdoms scenario.

We can have Sulu conquer visayas and tondo becoming a real state.

The Forty-Eighth Rōnin · Feb 3, 2016

kasumigenx said:
We can have Sulu conquer visayas and tondo becoming a real state.

How can Sulu expand without Maguindanao not noticing? It can't expand northwards with her flanks exposed.

kasumigenx · Feb 3, 2016

Captain Orange said:
How can Sulu expand without Maguindanao not noticing? It can't expand northwards with her flanks exposed.

Maguindanao did not really exist before 16th century, Sulu wanted to expand in Visayas in Cebu and Northern Mindandao.

ramones1986 · Feb 3, 2016

kasumigenx said:
A Historian told me that downtown METRO MANILA was uninhabited till late 1400's..

Well, it could be the perfect location for the settlers who speak a direct descendant of proto-Philippine language (my first suggested idea).

kasumigenx · Feb 3, 2016

ramones1986 said:
Well, it could be the perfect location for the settlers who speak a direct descendant of proto-Philippine language (my first suggested idea).

Actually, the main reason why the Proto-Philippine split to the Northern and Southern branch was because of this gap.

The Forty-Eighth Rōnin · Feb 3, 2016

kasumigenx said:
Maguindanao did not really exist before 16th century, Sulu wanted to expand in Visayas in Cebu and Northern Mindandao.

Okay, my bad. I forgot that.

About religion, I'm thinking of a Buddhist Luzon, a Hindu Visayas, and a Muslim Mindanao.

Oh, and is it possible to have more Chinese/Japanese influence on Luzon or Visayas? Particularly on architecture, arts and warfare? It would be cool to establish an early paper making industry derived from the Chinese, and samurai-influenced armor and weaponry.

ramones1986 · Feb 3, 2016

kasumigenx said:
Actually, the main reason why the Proto-Philippine split to the Northern and Southern branch was because of this gap.

Well, it should be possible, actually. I understand what you're saying but I really thought of an ethnolingustic group that could possibly change the course of pre-colonial Philippine history because of the fact they spoke a direct descendant of proto-Philippine language.

(They said that the Amis (Kavalan and Ketagalan included) was said to be closely related to Filipinos , but I don't think if they could actually fit in the said category because their language belongs to East Formosan group)

Namayan · Feb 3, 2016

Captain Orange said:
Okay, my bad. I forgot that.

About religion, I'm thinking of a Buddhist Luzon, a Hindu Visayas, and a Muslim Mindanao.

Oh, and is it possible to have more Chinese/Japanese influence on Luzon or Visayas? Particularly on architecture, arts and warfare? It would be cool to establish an early paper making industry derived from the Chinese, and samurai-influenced armor and weaponry.

I believe for unification, in Luzon, there must be simple tech like wheel, the field engineering absent in precolonial times. Most of these tech in OTL were brought by the Spanish. Unification in Visayas means some sort of a navy, thassalocracy. In Mindanao, population with a sense of rationality. And the Moros wont be able to unify Mindanao until they actually culturally change/mature like the Vikings and move away from piracy/raiding and treat their neighbors as vassals rather something to pluck from and discard. My prediction is if the Moros dont change, they will end up far worse in OTL where a Hindu/Buddhist or Pagan state will eradicate them from existence and then unify Mindanao.

The Chinese must actually bring their civilization to the Luzon not just trade which includes these simple tech. Absent of these simple techs including cultural/social maturity, there is no chance to unify those three major islands.