Was there a window of opportunity in the late 19th and early 20th century that allows Japan to colonize the Philipines and Indonesia (DEI) without being stopped by the western powers?
Could Japan Colonize Indonesia and the Philipines Without Western intervention?
- Thread starter Green Painting
- Start date
no.
The Phillipines was a Spanish Colony from the 1500s through 1898, and belonged to the US after that.
The Dutch East Indies basically started in the 1600s
The Phillipines was a Spanish Colony from the 1500s through 1898, and belonged to the US after that.
The Dutch East Indies basically started in the 1600s
I mean.. Neither the Spaniards nor the Dutch could fight A post-Meiji Japan in a colonial war in Asia.
So as long as the he major colonial powers of the day (the British, the French, and the Americans) did not intervene, Japan could snatch the two colonies from their colonial masters if they had the political will.
The Philippines is probably doable if Japan plays its cards right, but Indonesia might be a tough pill to swallow for Britain, I foresee Australia Australia screaming blue murder about a Japan right on their doorstep.
If Japan makes a bid for the Philippines and is successful, I doubt they'll go for Korea in 1904... the Filipinos will probably be keeping them busy if they still rebel, and there's a good chance they do.
Australia didn't protest about the Dutch on their doorstep... So if Japan left the British Empire alone, and let the Aussies keep Papua, why would they care?
As for Korea... Yes, keeping the Japanese busy in the south would be more than enough to make them stay away from Continental Asia.
If not Racism, then there was the fact that the Netherlands had been allies or at least relative neutrals (not to mention trade partners) to the British for some time during the most likely period of theoretical Japanese aggression.
Did the British view the Spanish in the same light?
Also because the center of British power Great Britian itself is right next to the netherlands and can easily get the fleet there to attack if the Netherlands does anything aggressive against Australia.
Britain wanted the Dutch to keep Indonesia, as it was conceived in those days that livelihood of the Netherlands depended on her colonies. Britain wanted there to be a strong Netherlands to maintain strategic balance in Europe against any continental power: first France, then Germany.
In fact, the British were in occupation of Java since 1811, but they handed it over to the United Kingdom ... of the Netherlands in 1814.
So, the change of colonial lord of Indonesia from the Dutch to the Japanese must happen at a time when the balance of power was in favor of Japan against Britain.
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Any other island states?
I wonder if apart from the Philippines or Java/Indonesia/Dutch East India, would there be any other state or island or archipel not yet claimed by an European power that the Japanese could make into a colony between 1870 and 1904? May be the Bismarck islands if they beat the Germans to it? (Would they be called the Meiji Islands henceforth?) May be they could claim parts of Brunei/Borneo? May be some other islands?
I wonder if apart from the Philippines or Java/Indonesia/Dutch East India, would there be any other state or island or archipel not yet claimed by an European power that the Japanese could make into a colony between 1870 and 1904? May be the Bismarck islands if they beat the Germans to it? (Would they be called the Meiji Islands henceforth?) May be they could claim parts of Brunei/Borneo? May be some other islands?
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What's the use for them? Indonesia served as an important source of natural resources before, during and after the WWII IOTL. Japan had little use for those pacific islands.
The timeframe was "in the late 19th and early 20th century", so at least one generation away from the point Japan was so industrialized it depended on foreign resources like Indonesian oil and rubber. At that time, the only reason Japan would want a colony would be the same Belgium had during that timeframe: All the other great nation had them and you didn't want to be left out lest you would be considered only so-so great.
Admit it, having a colony at that time was pretty much equivalent to having an atomic bomb in ours.
Absolutely not in any way,shape or form did Japan have a Snowball's Chance in Hell of colonizing or keeping Indonesia or Philippines. The Filipinos fought the Japanese occupation tooth and nail while the Indonesians who initially welcomed the Japanese were completely disillusioned by their piss-poor treatment at the Japanese hands. Plus, while Imperial Japan was racist towards Koreans and Chinese; their attitude towards Southeast Asians was ten times worse. Romusha {forced labour},comfort women, starvation and cannibalism were just a fraction of Japanese war crimes against Asians,Europeans,
Australians and Americans. They alienated everyone including their staunchest allies. Besides that, Indonesia and Philippines were large archipelagos of islands with numerous ethnic factions in a tropical environment. The Japanese would've been overextended before twenty years.
Australians and Americans. They alienated everyone including their staunchest allies. Besides that, Indonesia and Philippines were large archipelagos of islands with numerous ethnic factions in a tropical environment. The Japanese would've been overextended before twenty years.
Dreadnoughts were the early-modern equivalent of Atomic Bomb. Colonies brought real economic and strategic benefits, like OTL Korea, Taiwan, and other parts of China.
Americans were brutal in their suppression of the Philippines as well. But they had a relatively tame colony for forty years afterwards.
Hmmm... If Japan got the Philippines, it would have to be late 19th early 20th, right? This being the case, if they got the islands and held onto them...could it butterfly away their later aggressive expansionism?
Reasons being:
1) It'd probably take a while for them to get the islands pacified fully. Thus, the Army would probably be kept busy there rather than getting to play politician back in Tokyo,
2) Assuming they did, the islands would provide a major source of raw materials, particularly metal. So there wouldn't be the same desperate need.
3) By the same token, no need for lebensraum.
What do people think a hypothetical colonial administration of the Philippines would be like? Like the Formosa 'model colony' set-up, or more like Korea/Manchukuo?
Reasons being:
1) It'd probably take a while for them to get the islands pacified fully. Thus, the Army would probably be kept busy there rather than getting to play politician back in Tokyo,
2) Assuming they did, the islands would provide a major source of raw materials, particularly metal. So there wouldn't be the same desperate need.
3) By the same token, no need for lebensraum.
What do people think a hypothetical colonial administration of the Philippines would be like? Like the Formosa 'model colony' set-up, or more like Korea/Manchukuo?
Because the Dutch didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of ever threatening anyone. They were a second-rate European minor, so you got a benevolent neutral to the north who could never threaten you. Japan would be a rival imperial power.
I read something somewhere about secretive cult-like nationalist societies that were very active during the Meji era of Japan.
Not unlike the way the Thule Society was in Germany, societies like the Black Dragon Society were active in silently pushing Japanese foreign policy any which way, and at the time it was mostly toward Korea. This even went as far as having secret chapters of said group set up in Seoul.
That being said, if there were a greater proliferation of these nationalist groups and they spread to the Philippines or Indonesia, Japan might indeed be pulled towards the southern asian theatre earlier than in OTL.
Not unlike the way the Thule Society was in Germany, societies like the Black Dragon Society were active in silently pushing Japanese foreign policy any which way, and at the time it was mostly toward Korea. This even went as far as having secret chapters of said group set up in Seoul.
That being said, if there were a greater proliferation of these nationalist groups and they spread to the Philippines or Indonesia, Japan might indeed be pulled towards the southern asian theatre earlier than in OTL.
IIRC, that was Showa Japan. Before then, the Japanese were bad to their colonial subjects, but they weren't that different from the other colonial powers.
Japan could grab the Philippines without British or Dutch opposition because it was not strategic enough compared with the Dutch East Indies.