Britain buys Skoda T21

they bought the Vz30 and it was a hit as the Bren. They bought the Vz37 and named it the Besa. In 38 britain could have bought the rights to build the Skoda T21 medium tank, with it's 47mm gun, and gone to the desert with a tank capable of fighing the Pz III on even terms...
Ideas, objetions, implications?
 
It would certainly help them in the Battle of North Africa and maybe even the Battle of France. If it helps enough in the Battle of France WWII doesn't last very long.
 
Why would they buy someone elses, the Matilda 2 was already proof against all the German tanks (the 88s had to be pressed into as anti-tank guns service just because of it), it was just slow and unreliable.
 
Why would they buy someone elses, the Matilda 2 was already proof against all the German tanks (the 88s had to be pressed into as anti-tank guns service just because of it), it was just slow and unreliable.

See the bold part of your statement above. That was why they would buy someone else's tank.
 
Weighed out by having to find production space for a completely new design. It doesn't matter how damned good a tank is, if you have no room on your production lines and no ability to make space, it's not going to get built.
 
Weighed out by having to find production space for a completely new design. It doesn't matter how damned good a tank is, if you have no room on your production lines and no ability to make space, it's not going to get built.

If it is good enough you add new production lines.
 
it takes time to retool, which leaves you with no production for a period, not good for a country in the middle of rearming.

Well no production or production that you have to throw away - remember this was the period when the British built tanks that they ended up throwing away because they were so unreliable they couldn't use them.
 
They'd have had to throw away the early runs of the T21 anyway probably, you never get a good tank right off the block, there'll always be engine and transmission problems, never mind having to modify all the mounts to take your gear. Besides, Britain was going to end up using American stuff anyway so why bother?
 
Besides, Britain was going to end up using American stuff anyway so why bother?
Hindsight is 20/20 vision. Anyways, you guys are arguing as if one or the other has to be right. What I find interesting is that you're all re-hashing exactly the sorts of debates that go on in such a scenario. Does the leadership commit to existing if inferior equipment which it is already producing, or does it take the risk of new introductions? How fast can they get that new design? How much will it cost, and what could otherwise be done with that money and those resources? If they answer wrong, they lose a war, so the stakes are incredibly high.

I guess we should be glad we get to argue these things in a forum of imagination. :)
 
It's worth the bother because...

The T21 was a ready to go design. It used Skoda experience and was easy enough to build that the hungarians built a downgraded version, with a less powerful gun, as the Turan. In 1938 British tank production was not yet so advanced that introducing a new model would be much trouble. The Covenanters were so bad they were never used operationally, so just axe those.
Compare the specs on the T21 with British 1938 designs and the usefulness of the T21 is evident. The mobility of the (later) crusader, the reliability of the (later) valentine and a much better ( and with a better range of ammo) gun than any pre six pounder Brit tank. Plus it could be upgraded, something it would need in 42 to stay competitive with the L60 version of the PzIII...
 
I think I'm pretty familiar with Tanks of that era and the Skoda T21 isn't ringing a bell. I'm familiar with the Skoda 35 & Skoda 38 (both used by Germany and the 38 was the basis for several other vehicles. can you give me a pointer to some info on the T21 or is it another designation for one of these tanks?
 
Compare the specs on the T21 with British 1938 designs and the usefulness of the T21 is evident. The mobility of the (later) crusader, the reliability of the (later) valentine and a much better ( and with a better range of ammo) gun than any pre six pounder Brit tank. Plus it could be upgraded, something it would need in 42 to stay competitive with the L60 version of the PzIII...
You still have to rework it to take British weapons and engines though, or create whole new weapon and engine production equipment to build theirs. Oh, and the T-21 used leaf-spring suspension, the British were hooked on Christie suspension, so there's another change that has to be worked out.

I think I'm pretty familiar with Tanks of that era and the Skoda T21 isn't ringing a bell. I'm familiar with the Skoda 35 & Skoda 38 (both used by Germany and the 38 was the basis for several other vehicles. can you give me a pointer to some info on the T21 or is it another designation for one of these tanks?
Eventually became the R-3 I believe (which also never got produced).
 
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Also know as...

The T21 was Skoda's candidate to the Vz39 medium tank requirement. It was know as the S-II-c and renamed T21 when it lost the competition to CKD's competing V-8-H. Main specs:
16,5 tons
47mm main gun plus two MG
240 HP engine
30mm armour
50 km/h
180km range
 
So a derivitive of the Skoda 38? The Pz-38 was a pretty decent tank for the era. When I was giving tours at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum I used to love showing off the Skoda 35 we had (It is now back in the Czech Republic) Both the 35 and the 38 were used by the German Army and made up a significant portion of the forces used in France in 1940. The 38 was also used for several antitank vehicles including the Hetzer which stayed in use by the Swiss long after the war.

The problem with using a design developed elsewhere is getting production drawings into a format your industry is familiar with. It is bad enough with a light weapon like a machine gun but a weapon as complex as a tank has many levels of detail (engine, transmission, main weapon, etc) that need to be converted and produced. It is difficult enough when you have the full cooperation of the originator (such as the Americans producing a British weapon such as the 6 pdr, the Bofors 40mm or the Soviet T34,yes that was requested by the Soviets and a sample vehicle provided) But if the Brittish had started the process of producing a Skoda tank there would have been problems after the Germans invaded Czechoslovakia in getting cooperation of Skoda in resolving any issues. Most of the issues could have been resolved eventually but it would have taken time which was something the British didn't feel they had time for. The 2 pdr was kept in production even after the 6 pdr was ready for production because they didn't want to reduce the rate of production to convert over.

A major problem with British tanks of the early war era was a requirement that they fit within the standard loading gauge of the British rail system. This limited the size of the turret ring which limited the size gun the tank could use. The Skoda designs did not resolve this issue.

The biggest problem the British had early in the war, especially in North Africa was not equipment but in tactical doctrine. They had a hard time adapting to the new combined arms methods that the Germans were using. I believe they would have had trouble if they had had Shermans, Cromwells, Comets, or T34s.
 
The T21 was a ready to go design. It used Skoda experience and was easy enough to build that the hungarians built a downgraded version, with a less powerful gun, as the Turan. In 1938 British tank production was not yet so advanced that introducing a new model would be much trouble. The Covenanters were so bad they were never used operationally, so just axe those.
Compare the specs on the T21 with British 1938 designs and the usefulness of the T21 is evident. The mobility of the (later) crusader, the reliability of the (later) valentine and a much better ( and with a better range of ammo) gun than any pre six pounder Brit tank. Plus it could be upgraded, something it would need in 42 to stay competitive with the L60 version of the PzIII...
There is the problem is converting from English to metric.
 
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