WI William Clito is alive when Henry I dies?

Gonzaga · May 24, 2015

As says in the title. IOTL Henry I lived only seven years more than his nephew William Clito, who claimed the Norman inheritance in Normandy and England as the son of Robert Curthouse, eldest son of William the Conqueror. But Clito died in 1128 from a battle wound that became grangrenous. Assuming he didn't get hurt in that battle:

a) How successful William could be in getting Flanders and other territories?

b) What would happen to the English succession, now with three contenders for the throne (Matilda, Stephen and William)?

Tyler96 · May 25, 2015

Gonzaga said:
b) What would happen to the English succession, now with three contenders for the throne (Matilda, Stephen and William)?

Would the Norman lords prefer a male line grandson of Billy the Bastard over a woman or someone through the female line?

Some combat experience probably counts for something.

How would Louis VI play this?

Mikestone8 · May 25, 2015

Gonzaga said:
As says in the title. IOTL Henry I lived only seven years more than his nephew William Clito, who claimed the Norman inheritance in Normandy and England as the son of Robert Curthouse, eldest son of William the Conqueror. But Clito died in 1128 from a battle wound that became grangrenous. Assuming he didn't get hurt in that battle:

a) How successful William could be in getting Flanders and other territories?

b) What would happen to the English succession, now with three contenders for the throne (Matilda, Stephen and William)?

a) Hard to say. He had made enemies of the trading towns which were the rising force in Flanders. However, if he can hang onto the county until Henry I dies, his position there is a lot stronger, as England is one of Flanders' biggest trading partners.

b) Judging from their attitude to Matilda, I should say the Clito would be atrongly preferred.

Avrorrange · May 25, 2015

Mikestone8 said:
a) Hard to say. He had made enemies of the trading towns which were the rising force in Flanders. However, if he can hang onto the county until Henry I dies, his position there is a lot stronger, as England is one of Flanders' biggest trading partners.

b) Judging from their attitude to Matilda, I should say the Clito would be atrongly preferred.

With a much better claim too,with one that's actually better than her father.Stephen's claims would be look ridiculous if William Clito was still alive.

Gonzaga · May 25, 2015

Tyler96 said:
Would the Norman lords prefer a male line grandson of Billy the Bastard over a woman or someone through the female line?

Some combat experience probably counts for something.

How would Louis VI play this?

Mikestone8 said:
a) Hard to say. He had made enemies of the trading towns which were the rising force in Flanders. However, if he can hang onto the county until Henry I dies, his position there is a lot stronger, as England is one of Flanders' biggest trading partners.

b) Judging from their attitude to Matilda, I should say the Clito would be atrongly preferred.

darthfanta said:
With a much better claim too,with one that's actually better than her father.Stephen's claims would be look ridiculous if William Clito was still alive.

So, probably we would have William X Matilda, instead of Stephen X Matilda? Would Stephen even try to raise a claim in this situation?

Tyler96 · May 25, 2015

Gonzaga said:
So, probably we would have William X Matilda, instead of Stephen X Matilda? Would Stephen even try to raise a claim in this situation?

I dunno- Stephen seems opportunistic, but much of his OTL support would likely go to Clito.

Gonzaga · May 26, 2015

Tyler96 said:
I dunno- Stephen seems opportunistic, but much of his OTL support would likely go to Clito.

That's what I thought too. Maybe Stephen could support William in exchange for lands in France, or even titles in England?

The Professor · May 26, 2015

Don't forget Stephen's older brother Thibaut II of Champagne & IV of Blois.
If William dies in England Thibaut may be better positioned than Stephen to get crowned and we could see clashes in northern France between Matilda's (husband's) Angevins and the Thibaut's Blesevins.