WI: Buissnes Plot goes through, but fails.

DTanza

Banned
The big question is how do you get it to fire, considering it was mostly just old extremely rich men talking nonsense over brandy.

If you somehow managed to get it to become an actual movement that attempts a coup and fails, you'd likely see an American public more receptive of wealth redistribution and even less trusting of big business. The Republican Party of that day is going to have to run away from it's association with big business, which could lead to a split between the party's moderates and conservatives.
 

Sabot Cat

Banned
FDR and the federal government are given even more power with popular support, as corporations are going to be seen as a danger to democracy in addition to being ineffectual at ensuring people's livelihoods. Eventually, a maximum wage law is passed in the United States shortly thereafter, at $25,000 using a 100% marginal tax on all income over $40,000. Expect to see lefty butterflies.
 
I wonder what would happen if instead of Smedley Butler, you get someone like Douglas MacArthur involved and he decides he needs to "save the country". MacArthur is also the man who ejected the Bonus Army from Washington, and so has some credentials for "restoring order." It's certainly possible as well that MacArthur's ego is set off by FDR.

But I think we'd have to rework the plot itself substantially. All the same, not impossible.
 
how would such a event effect american socialism and communism? Would both groups see a lift in interest and support?
 
How could you get any military forces of significance to go through with it, I'm thinking most officers would still balk at that sort of thing.
 
How could you get any military forces of significance to go through with it, I'm thinking most officers would still balk at that sort of thing.

Every member of the US military swears to uphold the Constitution upon joining. Officers in particular are entrenched into the mentality of the need to uphold both the US government and its laws from day one.

Strangely, quite a lot of them actually take their vows quite seriously, and in a situation like a coup, which this is, you can't just count on 20% of the army (an extremely charitable assumption for the levels of support the Business Plot could obtain), you really have to get the majority of the crowd behind you.

Anyone who got involved in something like this would pretty much be committing treason, an act that would be followed by a court-martial and almost certain execution by firing squad and burial in an unmarked grave.

Those kinds of consequences would give pause to a lot of people.
 
Anyone who got involved in something like this would pretty much be committing treason, an act that would be followed by a court-martial and almost certain execution by firing squad and burial in an unmarked grave.

Those kinds of consequences would give pause to a lot of people.

Treason was not an offense under the Articles of War in 1934. Nor is treason an offense today under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Now there is a provision in the old Articles of War which is theoretically applicable in this situation.

RT. 64. ASSAULTING OR WILLFULLY DISOBEYING SUPERIOR OFFICER.--Any person subject to military law who, on any pretense whatsoever, strikes his superior officer or draws or lifts up any weapon or offers any violence against him, being in the execution of his office, or willfully disobeys any lawful command of his superior officer, shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
The probability that such an uprising would lead to actual executions is very slim. None, after all, occurred in the aftermath of the Civil War, at least not on charges of treason or secession, or rebellion against the government.
 
No. Separation of Powers, remember? They would be tried before the courts, like most criminals are.

Are you saying that Congress wouldn't go into recess so that the senators and representatives could attend the trial? Even if the trials themselves are a mix of court martials and cases at Federal Circuit Court, I should think Congress would consider it a legitimate reason to go into recess to attend the trials.

That said, starred officers (such as Generals and Admirals) are specifically promoted from their respective service branch's officer corps by the President and confirmed by Congress, even if the process is basically a cattle call when dealing with two stars or fewer. Under such conditions, using the impeachment process for, say, MacArthur or Patton, or whichever general picks up the gauntlet, would not be completely inappropriate.
 
Are you saying that Congress wouldn't go into recess so that the senators and representatives could attend the trial?

I am only saying they would not be tried by or before the U.S. Congress, but before the appropriate courts. Representatives and Senators might observe, as individuals, but it is unlikely Congress would just entirely stop business until the legal proceedings were finished. Too much to be done.
 
Are you saying that Congress wouldn't go into recess so that the senators and representatives could attend the trial? Even if the trials themselves are a mix of court martials and cases at Federal Circuit Court, I should think Congress would consider it a legitimate reason to go into recess to attend the trials.

A few in Congress might consider this a legitimate reason to go into recess, but I'm quite certain it would not happen.


That said, starred officers (such as Generals and Admirals) are specifically promoted from their respective service branch's officer corps by the President and confirmed by Congress, even if the process is basically a cattle call when dealing with two stars or fewer. Under such conditions, using the impeachment process for, say, MacArthur or Patton, or whichever general picks up the gauntlet, would not be completely inappropriate.

It would be quite inappropriate. The Constitution allows for impeachment of the President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States. It doesn't allow it for military officers.
 
Every member of the US military swears to uphold the Constitution upon joining. Officers in particular are entrenched into the mentality of the need to uphold both the US government and its laws from day one.
That's no guarantee against a coup d'etat. In fact, in the 20th century it has often been a prerequisite for it. The army, as a highly conservative establishment, in most countries tends to take a dim view on any sort of populistic levelling, and usually accusations of the elected government being despots, catering to mods, and destroying the constitution are thrown about. When the army does intervene, they invariable do so under the pretext of "restoring the Constitution".
 

Jbenuniv

Banned
Even assuming the whole of the US Army goes along with this coup plot, the US Army in 1933 amounts to under 200,000 soldiers. Many of whom are in the Philippines. I doubt the US Army could hope to actually gain control of the US in 1933. And I doubt most state governments would go along with the coup, leading to calling out the National Guard and a rapidly failing coup.
 

Japhy

Banned
Ignoring the massive, blatant, obvious fact that Butler most likely made the whole thing up, or at best was an idiot who completely misunderstood that it was nothing more then dumb comments over drinks.

The most likely result of the coup or something along the lines of the coup happening, is that it falls apart rapidly along the lines of El Tejerazo decades later because even with an American Legion Army, as others have noted American Federalism and the small size of any force compared to the nation at large cannot be large enough.

The result? Well the handful of Figures that Butler accursed go on trial. That means at most, MacArthur and his staff are courtmarshalled, that the plot leaders are put on trial in Federal Court, longer term?

A few New Deal Agencies need new heads (Because their bosses were totally involved :rolleyes: ) a few Corporations are going to probably fall apart, and FDR might need to get a new VP.
 
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