WI: No Cold War

The Cold War was the driver and shaper of the Post War world. Everything from colonialism to racial equality to space exploration was cast in the light of the struggle between Communism and Capitalism, and entire populations and nations were carved up and manipulated in the wider conflict between the Capitalist world and the Communist world. Its effects still linger decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Difficult as it may be, what if there were no Cold War?
 
The question "what if there was no cold war" is actualy the wrong question. You need to know why there is no cold war to speculate, since a world in which the western allies attacked the Soviet Union after WWII is a very different world from a the Soviet Union collapses during WWII or even a relations between the USA and the Soviet Union remain well enough to avoid a cold war (assuming that is actualy possible).
 
If it means less proxy wars, less irrational fear of communist independence movements being linked to a rival power bloc and less foreign interventionism and violence during decolonisation, a good 60-70% of the world will be better off for it.
 
Some political/economic genius proves that capitalism sows the seeds of war, communism doesn't work and crushes the human spirit. In speeches and books, with scientific modeling that is irrefutable he/she breaks the Law of Supply and Demand to come up with a alternative economic system. Call it 'CapComm' or Social Capitalism, something along those lines. A nation state that is a economic enabler(Swiss banking?) adopts it and demonstrates the benefits. During all this there is upheavel among the WWII surviving countries, riots, anti-corporate demonstrations about war pprofiteering, Soviet collapse due to purge and counter-purge. The new UN gets a charismatic leader to stem the chaos and propose global reforms.
ASB, really but can't see any other way except a Alien threat forcing everyone to compromise.
 
Two ways

A: Nazis beat the soviets, but the Americans and British beat the nazis

B: Americans and British attack Soviets in 1945 and win
 
Two ways
A: Nazis beat the soviets, but the Americans and British beat the nazis
Impossible. Almost ASB. You would need to put an end to Soviet industrialization somehow for this to occur. Even without Stalin, Bukharin, Trotsky, or whoever comes to power, would most likely industrialize the USSR.
B: Americans and British attack Soviets in 1945 and win
Also impossible. Completely ASB. Operation Unthinkable would have most certainly led to Soviet victory, and an overrunning of land all the way to France, even with the use of nukes.
 
Impossible. Almost ASB. You would need to put an end to Soviet industrialization somehow for this to occur. Even without Stalin, Bukharin, Trotsky, or whoever comes to power, would most likely industrialize the USSR.

Also impossible. Completely ASB. Operation Unthinkable would have most certainly led to Soviet victory, and an overrunning of land all the way to France, even with the use of nukes.

Peter Parker's not a big Soviet fan; to say it effects his alternate history prediction skills regarding them would be an understatement, I'd think. (No offence intended, everyone picks sides every now and then I spose)
 
A sane Soviet leadership uses is substantial soft power. A deal to Finanldize Poland, not too many folk in the US or Western Europe will know or care much about most of the rest of Eastern Europe
 
The Cold War was the driver and shaper of the Post War world. Everything from colonialism to racial equality to space exploration was cast in the light of the struggle between Communism and Capitalism, and entire populations and nations were carved up and manipulated in the wider conflict between the Capitalist world and the Communist world. Its effects still linger decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Difficult as it may be, what if there were no Cold War?

There are a few ways this could happen, and they're pretty different.

The USA remains / returns to isolationism. This could be an Axis-Wank scenario, where Nazi Germany is eventually able to break the Soviet Union in the late 1940s but struggles to digest it, while Japan faces the exact same problem in China.

Alternatively, the well written and creative For All Time does include the USA going Isolationist, along with several other bad things. The Soviets invade Turkey, Iran, and turn Greece, Italy and Austria into hardline Stalinist regimes.

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The "End of History" Style ending, where the USA is the only superpower, seems to be what other people are suggesting. True, having the Soviet Union banged up badly enough it can't assert itself in Eastern Europe or even faces serious internal crises could happen. Soviet Defeat in WWII is possible, but the Soviets won't surrender on the terms of "hand over your land, your tools, your minerals, your people and your dignity".

Even in a scenario where the Soviets have had Moscow, Murmansk, Novgorod, Leningrad and Stalingrad all occupied and trashed by the Nazis, the Soviets will still continue the fight--perhaps not for Stalin, not for Communism, but from the obvious repercussions of what Nazi Victory means. I can see the Soviet Union being ejected from the land they acquired in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and potentially something like the Ukraine asking for Western Allied Protection instead of being handed back to the Soviets--but Russia proper will be at least a minor power afterwards.

WWIII is certainly possible, but I have to think that in the immediate aftermath of WWII, there would be at least some period of trying to work things out instead of trying war. Even if early problems like the Berlin Airlift went hot, I think that the Soviets would recognize they couldn't win and back down. In any case, there would still be a Cold-War even if it is brief.
 
Possibilities (tinkering with WWII or creating WWIII is not an option):

- The Soviet Union is permitted to join NATO, thereby butterflying the creation of the Warsaw Pact.

- Butterfly the first Red Scare in the US (perhaps Wilson loses in 1916?), and keep Henry Wallance as Roosevelt's VP in the 1944 election.

- Completely discredit the anti-communist European Right through associations with Hitler.

- The Chinese Communists are wiped out pre-war, so the KMT retain power in China. Korea is never divided.

There's more, but I think this would go a long way to easing post-WWII tensions, thereby stopping the Cold War.
 
Fascinating thread so far. I am interested in similar ideas, and would like to hear what better informed people have to say.

No, there's ways to do it. Super-screwing the Soviet Union would be one way.

The "End of History" Style ending, where the USA is the only superpower, seems to be what other people are suggesting. ...

Even in a scenario where the Soviets have had Moscow, Murmansk, Novgorod, Leningrad and Stalingrad all occupied and trashed by the Nazis, the Soviets will still continue the fight--perhaps not for Stalin, not for Communism, but from the obvious repercussions of what Nazi Victory means. I can see the Soviet Union being ejected from the land they acquired in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and potentially something like the Ukraine asking for Western Allied Protection instead of being handed back to the Soviets--but Russia proper will be at least a minor power afterwards.

Wouldn't this be enough to discredit communism, though? If the Ukraine is under US protection after WWII, then the man-made famines, mass graves, etc will be investigated and proven beyond all reasonable doubt. Poland and the Baltic nations will be full of people who have witnessed Communist crimes with their very eyes. The relative weakness of the communist system will be self-evident, and people would not overestimate Soviet strength or try to appease them by ignoring their unpleasantness.

The Soviet union might even be put under some blockade/quarantine (no grain shipments, for example) until they are forced to reform and cooperate-- which means the acceptance of US hegemony over Europe. Of course, A really desperate Stalin could try to attack the allies to regain the territory previously held under the M-R pact (especially under the "blockade" scenario). This situation is completely different from "Operation Unthinkable", and could lead to a soviet defeat.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
If it means less proxy wars, less irrational fear of communist independence movements being linked to a rival power bloc and less foreign interventionism and violence during decolonisation, a good 60-70% of the world will be better off for it.
Very good point. Perhaps have Truman and esp. Eisenhower read de-colonization as the wave of the future and embrace it instead of fighting against it. For starters, we're not going to make ourselves unpopular by propping up dictators.

If a country quote- "goes communist" we'll have a much more relaxed attitude, figuring, oh, well, you folks will find out. We're not even going to say out loud, we told you so. We're just going to figure out over time that they will loosen up their economic policies.

PS It is hard because Stalin did cheat regarding Eastern Europe. Plus, he was a thug and a full-fledged sociopath, he really was.
 
A World War II were Nazi Germany is halted before defeating France, and is beat down into unconditional surrender by the Western European Democracies (Britain, France and Benelux, possibly Czechoslovakia and Poland) before either Italy, Japan, the USSR or United States gets a chance to join in, along with a general decrease in aggressiveness among both Capitalists and Communists, could possibly lead to something like this. The Old Empires (Britain and France) either don't fall or is able to keep close relations with their now developing former colonies so that a power vacuum does not form, and neither of the New Empires (US and USSR) get a good chance to expand their influence to the extent that they headbutt eachother.

With any luck at all, with the world a now much more multipolar place, and more likely than not the non-existence of the Atom Bomb, the all-consuming rivalry between two superstates would never really happen.

The United States was very isolationist before Pearl Barbour, and could likely content themselves with Hegemony over the Americas and their East Asian Empire. Being a hyperpower is expensive, certainly when there is no need to be one.

Stalin was, indeed, a crazy, paranoid lunatic, but I don't really see him as the 'World Domination' type. His aggressiveness could largely be put down to the USSR being in mortal peril against first the Third Reich and then the United States. His highest priority was keeping the Soviet Union a secure and prosperous bastion of Communism, and with the Europeans and Americans minding their own business, he would be willing to keep the status quo.

The Old Empires have spread to as far as they wish to go, and have now settled their 'business' with the Germans. If anti-Communist feelings could be curtailed in both countries, then there would be little desire to invade the Soviets (defend against, yes, but without nuclear weapons, any war on the Soviet Union, even with a rebuilt Germany on-team, would be so costly that it would break the backs of both their empires). Attention would instead be on managing their Empire. Africa and East Asia would likely be put on a gradual path to developed status, to at least keep up with the vast size of the USA and USSR.

Instead of the world turning into History's Longest Staring Contest, both Communists and Capitalists would be happy for the other guy to keep inside his own borders and eventually fail to the inherent flaws in his own system. More focus would be on the 'Peace Race', were economic and social development would tempt the non-aligned nations to either system. "Make cars, not war", basically.

Of course, everything I just wrote could be utter pig swill. :eek:
 
Very good point. Perhaps have Truman and esp. Eisenhower read de-colonization as the wave of the future and embrace it instead of fighting against it. For starters, we're not going to make ourselves unpopular by propping up dictators.

If a country quote- "goes communist" we'll have a much more relaxed attitude, figuring, oh, well, you folks will find out. We're not even going to say out loud, we told you so. We're just going to figure out over time that they will loosen up their economic policies.

PS It is hard because Stalin did cheat regarding Eastern Europe. Plus, he was a thug and a full-fledged sociopath, he really was.

But the problem is that in many of the countries with potential Communist revolutions during the initial period of the Cold War, there were complications. Greece bordered Turkey and the Soviets were putting pressure on Turkey for bases on the Dardanelles and the cession of Kars, plus there was the complication of Tito's proposed Balkan confederation. China was the most populated country in the world, with UN Security Council membership. American intervention in Indochina was initially influenced by the need to keep the French on our side, especially if we wanted to put Germany back together.
Plus there's the problems of Germany and Korea.
 
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