WI: Green Party a serious electoral threat

How could you get a timeline where the Green Party is considered a serous electoral threat in some states, perhaps having a delegation in congress caucusing with the Democrats and winning control of some state houses?

I'm thinking a coalition of labor activists and unions in the Upper Midwest, areas like Minnesota's Iron Belt where Nader did well in 2000 OTL and environmentalist types in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe if a cogent electoral strategy had emerged out of the anti-globalization movement of the late 90s.
 

Driftless

Donor
Unfortunately, for the Greens to really take off right now in the US, might require a higher level of magnitude environmental disaster, with immediate visual, visceral impact.
 
The problem is the Greens will sooner of later run into what happened in New Mexico. The Greens actually made headway as a 3rd party in New Mexico in the 1990s but in the end their sucess doomed them. In 1994 former Lt. Governor Roberto Mondragon ran as a Green for Governor and came out with a respectable 10.26%. But many Democrats felt that he gave Republican Gary Johnson the win (Johnson captured 49.8% to 39.9% for the Decomcrat, Bruce King, so that is somewhat doubtful as Johnson almost captured 50% on his own). However, in 1997 the Greens ran a strong candidate named Carol Miller ran for Congress in NM's 3rd District and captured 16.8% of the vote. NMs 3rd was (and is) one of the most Democratic leaning districts in the nation, and no Republican had ever captured more that 35% of the vote there. But due to Miller's strong showing Republican Bill Redmond scored the upset over the Democratic candidate by only 3,000. There was no question whatsoever that Miller and the Greens cost the Democrats an election in a very liberal district, and the NM Greens never actually recovered from their strong showing in 1994 and 1997.

I think the only way you can have the Greens emerge as an "electoral threat" is to somehow get them past that 16%-25% hump, where they are not seen as just a dangerous spoiler but as a legitimate alternative. And I don't know how you do that.
 

Driftless

Donor
I don't know, if the Deepwater Horizon didn't do it...

There are a lot of people, and well connected people who live in the areas affected by the spill who derive income from the energy business. While NO One took pleasure from that disaster, I think the energy business connections mitigated some of the outrage. I visited relatives in the area a couple of times after the spill, and found a surprising amount of sympathy for BP and the mitigation costs they absorbed. Poor BP, if they get beat up too much, just think of the jobs that will be lost, was the thing I heard. Correspondingly, I heard less sympathy for the hospitality businesses & such who lost a ton of business when tourists didn't come, and some stayed away for a time.
 
Have the Supreme Court case Timmons v. Twin Cities New Party in the 1990s somehow go the other way, and establish the right of ballot fusion in all states. Then, the Green Party will be able to endorse Democratic candidates they like in all states, and run candidates against Democrats they dislike. This will make the Democrats work to appease the Greens so they can win the Green nomination as well, to avoid vote-splitting. Meanwhile, since in many districts people will now be able to vote Green without splitting the vote, they will do so.
 
Have the Supreme Court case Timmons v. Twin Cities New Party in the 1990s somehow go the other way, and establish the right of ballot fusion in all states. Then, the Green Party will be able to endorse Democratic candidates they like in all states, and run candidates against Democrats they dislike. This will make the Democrats work to appease the Greens so they can win the Green nomination as well, to avoid vote-splitting. Meanwhile, since in many districts people will now be able to vote Green without splitting the vote, they will do so.

That might work in the short term but in the mid-term that's going to kill the Greens. Fusionism gave the Populists some early victories and triumphs but ultimately led to William Jennings Bryan and the party's collapse post-1896.
 
I had an idea of a Ross Perot victory in '92 where his movement basically absorbs most Democrats and moderate Republicans (but sans free trade/NAFTA), and he's essentially de facto a Democrat towards the end of his second term. Leftish Democrats under Jackson (holding a personal grudge against Perot) look to the Greens, Buchananite and Christian conservatives completely steer the Republican wheel. The funny part is rather than create a competitive politics in the US the Perotite Democrats now look to be the dominant party. Nobody wants to stomach the Two Pats or Rainbow Coalition for presidency...
 
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Riain

Banned
If the us greens are anything like the greens here the biggest hurdle is that deep down they want us to live in thatched huts. So perhaps a massive economic collapse occurs so huge numbers of people are living in thatched huts, and the greens economic policy won't cause a major drop in living standards so they become electable.
 
If the us greens are anything like the greens here the biggest hurdle is that deep down they want us to live in thatched huts. So perhaps a massive economic collapse occurs so huge numbers of people are living in thatched huts, and the greens economic policy won't cause a major drop in living standards so they become electable.

wow that's a bit much.
 
Unfortunately, for the Greens to really take off right now in the US, might require a higher level of magnitude environmental disaster, with immediate visual, visceral impact.

As someone who voted Green for his first election back in 2000 (Don't shoot me! Gore won my State, I swear!), I would say that the first things the Greens would need is actual effective leadership. A leadership that actually believed in building up a grassroots organization to, if not rival, at least act as a spoiler to the big two. Unfortunately, it never actually seemed like that was the case.
 

Riain

Banned
wow that's a bit much.

Don't panic, I have cynicism enough to spare for all parties, even the party I vote for would dig up the Great Barrier Reef with a Uranium shovel if they thought there was a buck in it.
 
The problem is that for the Green Party to become relevant, you need the Democratic Party to not move to the left to appeal to those voters. You can certainly make the case the Democratic Party is not a left-of-center party today, however, it's still relatively liberal for American politics. It's also nominated two fairly liberal (socially, and a bit economically) candidates as their last two nominees - John Kerry and Barack Obama. If you make the party go further to the right, say, under Clinton and then Gore (who was a moderate up until his loss to Bush, it seems), you might see an opening for the Green Party. But it's unlikely that opening is big enough to make them a serious electoral threat.

Even in 2000, at the height of their popularity in national politics, after eight years of moderate Clinton politics, Ralph Nader still only won 3% of the vote nationally.

The thing is, the examples given, namely an environmental disaster, don't necessarily benefit the Greens - and instead, would just force, potentially, more Americans to solidify around the Democrats, who are more mainstream and more appealing, in this scenario, than the Republicans.

With a two-party system, which this country has pretty much been since the beginning (beyond a few election cycles), you need a total collapse of one party for the rise of another. It's hard to write off either the Republicans or the Democrats because they're too established and too mainstream. The Greens and Libertarians aren't on the whole. It's why there is never a legitimate third party challenger because the views of the left & right are just too stark.

So, maybe the Democrats become so toxic that everyone abandons the party. But how likely is that? If the Democrats could survive Jimmy Carter, and the Republicans could survive Nixon and W. Bush, beyond some unforeseen craziness, the party just isn't going to die off any time soon. In 100 years? Okay - but that makes this future history...
 
As someone who voted Green for his first election back in 2000 (Don't shoot me! Gore won my State, I swear!), I would say that the first things the Greens would need is actual effective leadership. A leadership that actually believed in building up a grassroots organization to, if not rival, at least act as a spoiler to the big two. Unfortunately, it never actually seemed like that was the case.

Yeah basically this. For all the talk in the third parties about the system working against them, which it does, the majority are terribly disorganized and way too absolutist in their attitudes.* It is perfectly for third parties to become powerful in an FPTP system, just look at the UK, but they need to be effective third parties.

teg

*Because the only way third parties IMO are going to be influential in the short term is if they use local electoral success as a bargaining chip to influence the big two parties.
 
The problem is that for the Green Party to become relevant, you need the Democratic Party to not move to the left to appeal to those voters. You can certainly make the case the Democratic Party is not a left-of-center party today, however, it's still relatively liberal for American politics. It's also nominated two fairly liberal (socially, and a bit economically) candidates as their last two nominees - John Kerry and Barack Obama. If you make the party go further to the right, say, under Clinton and then Gore (who was a moderate up until his loss to Bush, it seems), you might see an opening for the Green Party. But it's unlikely that opening is big enough to make them a serious electoral threat.

That's the idea I had in mind: a Democratic Party drifting much more to the right than in OTL, maybe already after Carter, possibly making even seem the Republicans moderate in comparison. Add to this financially strong "slow growth" movements in the bigger cities supporting the Green Party.
 
A successful Green Party, in my opinion needs to be founded earlier, so that they can take advantage of the turmoil of the 70s. One possibility is for Maoist parties in the United States to get absolutely zero traction (rather than infiltrating and derailing promising movements/organizations e.g. the SDS), and have environmentalism instead be the "cool thing" in the late 60s. This way there is a ready built "cadre" of Green activists, and the organizational framework (read: party) won't take nearly as long to build.

Say a few state-wide green parties exist by '72, bolstered by an influx of former democrats and hippies who had gotten "Clean for Gene" back in '68. They aren't on the national radar when Nixon crushes McGovern, but they had been making a name for themselves in anti-war circles ('stop napalming our planet' is a reasonably catchy message). Then Watergate happens, and the Greens experience exponential growth as more Americans look for something different. They are also helped by the oil embargo, as they can talk about a world without oil. Sure that sounds kooky to a lot of folks, but it has an audience which it resonates with.

The basic idea is that the 70s provide the most potential for the Greens to grow. So if they get off to a better start they might be able to build themselves into a more serious threat. And they might also become more a broad-left wing party if their foundation is more firmly rooted in the socialist left, as opposed to being viewed as a sort of single-issue party.
 
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