Could someone be the Pope and the President of the United States at the same time. Leaving aside the unlikeliness of the situation, would the position of Pope technically be considered nobility, making the person ineligable?
Could Someone Be Pope and President?
- Thread starter Baconheimer
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Interesting question! (Which means I don't know.) 
One of the papal titles is "Prince of the Apostles," so...that's kind of nobility, right?
The constitution has provisions against accepting multiple appointments within the government. I can imagine a court ruling that the spirit of the law carries over to foreign appointments, certainly if we're talking about leading two nations.
One of the papal titles is "Prince of the Apostles," so...that's kind of nobility, right?
The constitution has provisions against accepting multiple appointments within the government. I can imagine a court ruling that the spirit of the law carries over to foreign appointments, certainly if we're talking about leading two nations.
"Easiest" way to do this would be elected POTUS and than Pope.
There is no legal requirement for a candidate to the Papacy to be an ordained priest. Any male Roman Catholic is eligible , the choice is entirely up to the Conclave.
BTW: This is about as likely as my ascendancy, but it is possible (just throwing my hat in the ring for consideration post Francis).
There is no legal requirement for a candidate to the Papacy to be an ordained priest. Any male Roman Catholic is eligible , the choice is entirely up to the Conclave.
BTW: This is about as likely as my ascendancy, but it is possible (just throwing my hat in the ring for consideration post Francis).
No on the nobility, the Pope is elected and there is no hereditary element to Catholic politics (officially anyway) no matter if Church titles are styled after noble ones. The Pope could be a noble, but that would be unrelated to his position as Pope. The Catholic Church as a country is probably best described as a quasi-democratic non-hereditary oligarchy or like a poorly organized military. Assuming the Pope met the other requirements I don't see anything that would legally prevent it on the American side. Of course a Pope that tried to run for office in the US would probably be removed from the holy office.
But pretty much everyone everywhere would object to the very idea of a Pope/President.
Edit:CalBear's idea is probably the least ASB one, a president that is declared Pope somehow.
But pretty much everyone everywhere would object to the very idea of a Pope/President.
Edit:CalBear's idea is probably the least ASB one, a president that is declared Pope somehow.
What? No offense, but this is laughable.
Cardinals must dedicate their entire lives to the priesthood which means A LOT of work towards things like charity, teaching, running a church, etc.
To be a presidential hopeful you must dedicate your life to the inner-workings of the American political system
in short, to achieve one takes a life time. To achieve both would take 2 lifetimes.
Cardinals must dedicate their entire lives to the priesthood which means A LOT of work towards things like charity, teaching, running a church, etc.
To be a presidential hopeful you must dedicate your life to the inner-workings of the American political system
in short, to achieve one takes a life time. To achieve both would take 2 lifetimes.
Priests and bishops holding high political office are far from unheard of, but this is usually considered awkward in a modern context. IIRC, when Archbishop Lugo ran for president of Paraguay (to which he was to be elected) he was suspended from his priestly role.
Theoretically, there is no Church law against it.
In practice, it is very hard to see what strange set of circumstance may lead to the POTUS being elected Pope, and even harder for the reverse to happen.
Theoretically, there is no Church law against it.
In practice, it is very hard to see what strange set of circumstance may lead to the POTUS being elected Pope, and even harder for the reverse to happen.
Asami
Banned
Any Catholic male in the world can be the Pope. There's no technical requirement to be a priest/bishop/etc. If the Conclave decided that the fictional Catholic POTUS would make a good Pope; Pope shall he be ordained.
William Lancaster, a North Carolina Anti-Federalist, worried about this resulting from the absence of a religious test for the presidency (so much for the notion that the Anti-Federalists were libertarian...):
"As to a religious test, had the article which excludes it provided none but what had been in the states heretofore, I would not have objected to it. It would secure religion. Religious liberty ought to be provided for. I acquiesce with the gentleman, who spoke, on this point, my sentiments better than I could have done myself. For my part, in reviewing the qualifications necessary for a President, I did not suppose that the pope could occupy the President's chair. But let us remember that we form a government for millions not yet in existence. I have not the art of divination. In the course of four or five hundred years, I do not know how it will work. This is most certain, that Papists may occupy that chair, and Mahometans may take it. I see nothing against it. There is a disqualification, I believe, in every state in the Union--it ought to be so in this system." http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a6_3s26.html
"As to a religious test, had the article which excludes it provided none but what had been in the states heretofore, I would not have objected to it. It would secure religion. Religious liberty ought to be provided for. I acquiesce with the gentleman, who spoke, on this point, my sentiments better than I could have done myself. For my part, in reviewing the qualifications necessary for a President, I did not suppose that the pope could occupy the President's chair. But let us remember that we form a government for millions not yet in existence. I have not the art of divination. In the course of four or five hundred years, I do not know how it will work. This is most certain, that Papists may occupy that chair, and Mahometans may take it. I see nothing against it. There is a disqualification, I believe, in every state in the Union--it ought to be so in this system." http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a6_3s26.html
jahenders
Banned
I think it's theoretically possible, though NOT at the same time since a man in one position would have to recuse himself from taking the other (the demands of both are too high).
You could have a strong, practicing Catholic president who was both very popular and very devout. If, once he leaves office, it's about time for a new pope, he could theoretically be selected.
I guess, in theory, you could have a pope become president, but that's less likely since he would generally only step down as pope if his health prevented him from doing the job (and would, hence, prevent him from being president).
You could have a strong, practicing Catholic president who was both very popular and very devout. If, once he leaves office, it's about time for a new pope, he could theoretically be selected.
I guess, in theory, you could have a pope become president, but that's less likely since he would generally only step down as pope if his health prevented him from doing the job (and would, hence, prevent him from being president).
looking at the title - i would say yes, just have a president with the last name "Pope"
I mean, we've alreaey had a King be President
I don't think so. Pat Robertson ran in the primaries one year, and I don't think anyone ever suggested that there was a constitutional problem with that, in and of itself. It's the policies that the POTUS implements which would be an issue, not that his day-job is listed as "clergyman".
Plus, there have been lower level clerics(eg. Robert Drinan) elected to other positions.
(And, yes, in Robertson's case, his policies, if implemented, would likely have run afoul of the First Amendment.)
In theory, yes.
As everyone said prior, it's highly unlikely. The weight of both offices would be nigh impossible to bear for one man.
As everyone said prior, it's highly unlikely. The weight of both offices would be nigh impossible to bear for one man.
It would be perfectly possible for the Italian President... but nobody in the Italian Senate would have the guts to actually declare a papal candidate as President of Italy.
France and Spain both technically have formal traditional ties to Papacy, if an ASB makes everybody in the Western World to go back to center politics around who is the Pope, I'd bet they'd try to do something for gain it. Okay, technically Spain has a king, but whatever.
I have serious doubts on the USA president due to the "Not-European Catholic/-Catholic derived country" stigma (Pope Francis' election was all but obvious, as everybody expected Bagnasco to win, and had already sent congratulations letter to Bagnasco, before the election results were even revealed." You could make it work, by buying the Curia, but I don't see the benefit of it.
France and Spain both technically have formal traditional ties to Papacy, if an ASB makes everybody in the Western World to go back to center politics around who is the Pope, I'd bet they'd try to do something for gain it. Okay, technically Spain has a king, but whatever.
I have serious doubts on the USA president due to the "Not-European Catholic/-Catholic derived country" stigma (Pope Francis' election was all but obvious, as everybody expected Bagnasco to win, and had already sent congratulations letter to Bagnasco, before the election results were even revealed." You could make it work, by buying the Curia, but I don't see the benefit of it.
Isn't the Pope considered a legal resident of Vatican City ?
Might present issues with being US POTUS.
Might present issues with being US POTUS.
US is ASB, unless it's be too different from OTL US.
If you relax it a bit, the best bet is probably Ethiopia under slightly different history. After all, already in Europe there is a head of state being ex officio a head of church (not called a pope, though), and the bishop of Urgell is ex officio a head of state (not called a president though). With a little twist of fate the offices could have been renamed.
If you relax it a bit, the best bet is probably Ethiopia under slightly different history. After all, already in Europe there is a head of state being ex officio a head of church (not called a pope, though), and the bishop of Urgell is ex officio a head of state (not called a president though). With a little twist of fate the offices could have been renamed.
I think you are confusing Bagnasco with Cardinal Scola. As far as I can tell, Bagnasco was never seriously considered. Scola was considered the most serious "conservative" candidate, and, IIRC, the congratulatory letter thing, if true, was about him.
However, it is extremely unlikely for this to work in Italy. The country formed in direct opposition to the Papal States after all.
A Pope that has high political office in Italy would be awkward to the extreme, and would be seen VERY suspiciously by the Curia to boot. It would put the political independence of the Holy See, which is the whole point of there being a Vatican state in the first place, into question. On the other side, many would say that it puts the independence of Italy into question (anti-clericals here are already saying that we are a "Vatican protectorate" IOTL).