Hitler Wants Carriers!

Saphroneth · Jun 30, 2015

In 1933 or so, Hitler decides to ditch the OTL plans for the Kriegsmarine and just build carriers.
Big carriers, small carriers, submarine carriers (though still regular submarines and regular light forces CL and down). Carriers will be the future, he decides, and anyone who doesn't get with the program will be out.

How horribly do things go wrong for the Germans?

(Yes, I know this is silly. I just reread the Ovaron Thing...)

alspug · Jun 30, 2015

Hilariously wrong .

I mean seriously the North Sea pre radar is the worst place possible for carriers .

I mean you never know when a pair of Battlecruisers might find you .

On another note Goering will only allow the carriers if one of them becomes his yacht and even then only approve the aircraft for them while intoxicated on painkillers of a narcotic variety .

Their never has been and never will be a carrier group that is successful without at the least Cruisers and Destroyers as escorts . In enclosed waterways or rough conditions you need to allow for not being able to launch aircraft and that means you really need Battleships as escorts . Having said that could you imagine HMS Hood and HMS POW having to turn away from a Graf Zeppelin plus a pair of Leipzig class cruisers . Having said that HMS Suffolk and HMS Norfolk would have closed the distance and gobbled them up herself .

Saphroneth · Jun 30, 2015

Oh, gods yeah, it's going to be hilarious.
I'm mainly interested in how hilarious. Are we talking "Crunch, there goes the last fighter" in a landing accident? Or "Why did we build it with a six degree constant list?"

cra0422 · Jun 30, 2015

Goering's Luftwaffe had full control over all German military aircraft. There's no way he'd left the Kriegsmarine have any. I also remember reading in a book about the Bismarck was Hitler proclaimed that "on land I am a hero but at sea, I am a coward". He was very Continental in his strategic view and never really appreciated what naval air power could do.

Saphroneth · Jun 30, 2015

cra0422 said:
Goering's Luftwaffe had full control over all German military aircraft. There's no way he'd left the Kriegsmarine have any.

Then TTL Hitler sacks him, no matter the consequences.

I'm exploring how much carnage it would wreak on the German war effort to actually have a CV-focused Kriegsmarine.

Avrorrange · Jun 30, 2015

Saphroneth said:
Then TTL Hitler sacks him, no matter the consequences.

I'm exploring how much carnage it would wreak on the German war effort to actually have a CV-focused Kriegsmarine.

I trust that if Hitler would have sacked Goering over carriers,he would have done so a long time ago early in the war....

zoomar · Jun 30, 2015

Heck, Hitler gives the carriers to the Luftwaffe. Germany becomes the first and only nation whose air force has its own navy

RodentRevolution · Jun 30, 2015

cra0422 said:
Goering's Luftwaffe had full control over all German military aircraft. There's no way he'd left the Kriegsmarine have any. I also remember reading in a book about the Bismarck was Hitler proclaimed that "on land I am a hero but at sea, I am a coward". He was very Continental in his strategic view and never really appreciated what naval air power could do.

Saphroneth said:
Then TTL Hitler sacks him, no matter the consequences.

I'm exploring how much carnage it would wreak on the German war effort to actually have a CV-focused Kriegsmarine.

KMS Herman Goering...there vanity solved and besides the planes can still be Luftwaffe or in the early stages Hitler Youth Flying Club or whatever its cover name is.

I think the hilarity will set in with the Nazi urge to megalomania. They won't settle for a small first carrier to test the ropes but will look to have some bigger than the Lexingtons in the water as soon as possible. They will only discover all the issues with things like superstructure creating cross deck turbulence and why sensible hangar arrangements matter once they have the fat cow in service, where she either sits just above the water line because they went for an armoured flight deck as well as size or she is going to try and survive in the North Sea within range of hostile land aircraft on hope come any fighting.

Astrodragon · Jun 30, 2015

Bonus points if the carriers are coal powered.

Double bonus points if the aircraft are too!

Dan Reilly The Great · Jun 30, 2015

zoomar said:
Heck, Hitler gives the carriers to the Luftwaffe. Germany becomes the first and only nation whose air force has its own navy

Maybe the military leadership of the RN and USN scratch their heads in confusion at this most perplexing set of priorities so hard that they cause brain damage, thus crippling the naval components of both nation's militaries long enough to successfully win the Battle of the Atlantic?

Saphroneth · Jun 30, 2015

Hmmm...
How many slips can you build carriers on at once...
And how many artillery pieces and tanks do you have to give up for them?

CalBear · Jun 30, 2015

Saphroneth said:
Then TTL Hitler sacks him, no matter the consequences.

I'm exploring how much carnage it would wreak on the German war effort to actually have a CV-focused Kriegsmarine.

Oh, you can still have a KM with carriers. It will just be a version of how the RAF would have treated the FAA had the RAF been led by an egomaniac opiate addict.

Archibald · Jun 30, 2015

You don't understand. Germany mighty carrier fleet launch an all out attack on Scapa flow (after coaling in the Frisian islands, since the fleet range is too short)

RodentRevolution · Jun 30, 2015

Archibald said:
You don't understand. Germany mighty carrier fleet launch an all out attack on Scapa flow (after coaling in the Frisian islands, since the fleet range is too short)

Sorry I could not stop laughing at this

Genius

tigercat · Jun 30, 2015

How about for some extra insanity hybrid carriers .

Saphroneth · Jun 30, 2015

tigercat said:
How about for some extra insanity hybrid carriers .

Ooh, I like that idea.
Perhaps they can use the guns like rifle-grenade cartridges as the aircraft launch system?

tigercat · Jun 30, 2015

Bring on the shell propelled Stukas.

Johnestauffer · Jun 30, 2015

I think one of the real problems is lack of experience (any) in carrier operations. They would be starting out from scratch - unless they got major assistance from the Japanese.
Making aircraft suitable for carrier operations is an issue too.
Landing/take offs from limited distances put heavy strains on ac that would not occur in normal group operations.
Also the salt water environment would have an impact as well.

It is not just a matter of saying lets have carriers & everybody agreeing - it take time and research to become proficient in carrier ops and only 3 navies had the experience (UK, US, Japan)

Astrodragon · Jun 30, 2015

CalBear said:
Oh, you can still have a KM with carriers. It will just be a version of how the RAF would have treated the FAA had the RAF been led by an egomaniac opiate addict.

How do we notice the difference??

Saphroneth · Jun 30, 2015

Johnestauffer said:
I think one of the real problems is lack of experience (any) in carrier operations. They would be starting out from scratch - unless they got major assistance from the Japanese.
Making aircraft suitable for carrier operations is an issue too.
Landing/take offs from limited distances put heavy strains on ac that would not occur in normal group operations.
Also the salt water environment would have an impact as well.

It is not just a matter of saying lets have carriers & everybody agreeing - it take time and research to become proficient in carrier ops and only 3 navies had the experience (UK, US, Japan)

Yep, that's what makes it so funny.
This is a bit of a semi-parody, but the underlying question is serious - exactly how bad would the Kriegsmarine Karriers be?