DBWI: Good Britain and France, Evil Germany, Italy, and Russia

As we all know, it has been 70 years since the end of the Second Weltkrieg, where the National Imperialist and National Populist maniacs that made up the "New Entente" such as Prime Minister Winston Churchill of the "New British Empire" and French Supreme Leader Charles De Gaulle of the "Greater French Empire/Third Empire" whom led to "New Entente" were defeated at last by the German, Italian Empires and the Russian Republic; with help from the United Soviet Republic of America when the Entente launched Operation Erikson to conquer the North American continent. The war resulted in the Nuclear bombing of Britain by Russia and the division of French until the collapse of the France Democratic Republc in 1989.

This victory however came at a massive cost, with horrendous atrocities carried out by the British against it's conquests such as the infamous "Rape of Dublin" and the establishiment of Science Division 137, which experimented on innocents in occupied Indian and Irish territories(shockingly, hardliners on the British right and conservatist factions try to deny all of that to this day). And that is not getting into the joint UK-French invasion of the Soviet American Republic and the genocide perpetuated by the French governments against Jews and so-called undesirables organized through the "Final Order/Ordonnance Définitive".

With any POD before their ascent to power, could we have a situation where The Axis were the bad guys and the "New Entente" were the good guys, or even if the Second Weltkrieg was a more "greyer" affair?

OOC: Mirror universe of OTL. Britain and France lose WWI, US never enters WWI due to going to war in Mexico to preserve it's intrests there. Kerensky chose to withdrawl from WWI after Feb Revolution. The intervention in Mexico means US becomes even more obsessed than OTL to preserve it's intrests in Latin America, which leads to greater conscription extreme spending in defense budget, eventually this causes a backlash when Great Depression hits which leads to the Communist Revolution in the US. Also Roosevelt dies sometimes before 1929 of an accident.
 
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What about the economy of one of the Axis powers being wrecked? I mean, WRECKED. Totally hopeless. The right guy comes along...
 
OOC: What is the POD for this? If you don't have a reasonable POD to bring about your universe, this belongs in ASB.

OOC: Britain and French lose WWI, US never enters WWI due to going to war in Mexico to preserve it's intrests there. Kerensky chose to withdrawl from WWI after Feb Revolution.
 
What about the economy of one of the Axis powers being wrecked? I mean, WRECKED. Totally hopeless. The right guy comes along...

That was actually the case in the "Mirror Verse" alternate history series when Adolf Hitler was turned into a genocidal maniac and made into the leader of the Nazi Party(TTL's version of the French National Populist Front) which takes over Germany.

Alternatively, I think Britain might not have the rise of National Imperialism if it could at least keep parts of India and Northern Ireland. Not sure how to butterfly away rise of the French, through allowing them to hold on to at least French Algeria, and allowed to join with Belgium over giving all their colonial holdings to Germany might suffice.
 
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I notice you don't mention the development of Taisho democracy and the growth of the Pan-Asianist bloc in Japan. Take that away - substitute instead some of those rabid military types who were jockeying for power - and the Japanese Liberation of the Franco-English colonial holdings in East Asia could have gone quite differently. You might have seen them annexed to Japan instead of established as independent members of the Greater East Asian Alliance.
 
I notice you don't mention the development of Taisho democracy and the growth of the Pan-Asianist bloc in Japan. Take that away - substitute instead some of those rabid military types who were jockeying for power - and the Japanese Liberation of the Franco-English colonial holdings in East Asia could have gone quite differently. You might have seen them annexed to Japan instead of established as independent members of the Greater East Asian Alliance.

The Japanese were instrumental in helping to liberate China and ensure the creation of a unified China, India and Indonesia, and note that the development of Pan-Asianism allowed for the gradual independence of Korea and the souring of UK-Japanese relations. Having the militarists in power could actually see the creation of an Anglo-French-Japanese alliance:eek:.
 
Maybe, and just maybe, the second and third American Civil Wars would have never happen, and Canada would not have parts of America, like Maine, Michigan , Seattle, and a few other parts of the US.
 
The Japanese were instrumental in helping to liberate China and ensure the creation of a unified China, India and Indonesia, and note that the development of Pan-Asianism allowed for the gradual independence of Korea and the souring of UK-Japanese relations. Having the militarists in power could actually see the creation of an Anglo-French-Japanese alliance:eek:.

Indeed. Of course, they benefited from it - until relatively recently, Japan was the undisputed leader of Asia, now they're just one of the leading countries - but that doesn't take away from the benefits to all Asia.

Maybe, and just maybe, the second and third American Civil Wars would have never happen, and Canada would not have parts of America, like Maine, Michigan , Seattle, and a few other parts of the US.

Yeah... Canada sure cleaned up. Canada got Maine, Michigan, Washington State and Alaska.

Let's not forget: Hawaii would probably be a state right now, rather than a Kingdom that's a protectorate of Japan (well, officially - unofficially they're so close to Tokyo they might as well be a prefecture).
 
Long live our great saviour Winston Churchill! Science Division 137 is a lie and the Irish welcomed their British brothers. One day the New British empire shall rise again and we shall overthrow the royal family, who were democratically removed in 1936 by popular vote, then forced back on us in 1946. Look what happened after the war in ulster, and in Austria Hungary, the things that took place. The Axis are the real bad guys. Long live our great saviour Winston Churchill!
 
Long live our great saviour Winston Churchill! Science Division 137 is a lie and the Irish welcomed their British brothers. One day the New British empire shall rise again and we shall overthrow the royal family, who were democratically removed in 1936 by popular vote, then forced back on us in 1946. Look what happened after the war in ulster, and in Austria Hungary, the things that took place. The Axis are the real bad guys. Long live our great saviour Winston Churchill!

Pog mo thoin, Sassenach imperialist running-dog!:mad: Two of my great-grandfathers fought against your murdering thugs, and one of them got executed even though as a soldier in the Irish Army, he should have been interned as a POW.

Oh, and by the way, the Isle of Man is ours and if you want it back, come and take it. Because you won't get it without a fight. I did my National Service, and I'm more than willing to do it for real.

OOC: Just getting in character ;)
 
Long live our great saviour Winston Churchill! Science Division 137 is a lie and the Irish welcomed their British brothers. One day the New British empire shall rise again and we shall overthrow the royal family, who were democratically removed in 1936 by popular vote, then forced back on us in 1946. Look what happened after the war in ulster, and in Austria Hungary, the things that took place. The Axis are the real bad guys. Long live our great saviour Winston Churchill!

The New British occupation of Ireland is one of the worst things to ever happen. Ireland will never forget what the New British did.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
The New British occupation of Ireland is one of the worst things to ever happen. Ireland will never forget what the New British did.

That is what the New British intended, although not in the way the Irish do.

If only that damned invasion of the Frisian Islands not gone ahead. Who seriously expected success when your invasion fleet consists of cross-channel ferries and canal longboats?

And those treacherous Canadians will get theirs, the Wallace-King Pact guaranteeing the USSA's northern borders. Wait till the Commies turn on you, Toronto!

(Hey, playing a revenge-driven Fascist is fun! Might be fun in the office tomorrow :eek:)
 
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Pog mo thoin, Sassenach imperialist running-dog!:mad: Two of my great-grandfathers fought against your murdering thugs, and one of them got executed even though as a soldier in the Irish Army, he should have been interned as a POW.

Oh, and by the way, the Isle of Man is ours and if you want it back, come and take it. Because you won't get it without a fight. I did my National Service, and I'm more than willing to do it for real.

OOC: Just getting in character ;)

The Irish army and government were supressing the Irish people and we Liberated you. I do feel sorry for you. However, many Irish POW's were found to be responsible for war crimes, and your Relative was one of them. As for the isle of man being yours, how do you explain the deportation of the entire population to the United Kingdom of England and Wales. Even what deniers term 'mainstream historians' say that.
 
The Irish army and government were supressing the Irish people and we Liberated you. I do feel sorry for you. However, many Irish POW's were found to be responsible for war crimes, and your Relative was one of them. As for the isle of man being yours, how do you explain the deportation of the entire population to the United Kingdom of England and Wales. Even what deniers term 'mainstream historians' say that.

At least we deported them rather than doing the kind of things you people did to civilians - Irish soldiers never handed out anthrax-laced candy bars to kids, the way you murderers did in the Dublin tenements.

OOC: That happened IRL in occupied China, apparently :eek::mad:
 
Long live our great saviour Winston Churchill! Science Division 137 is a lie and the Irish welcomed their British brothers. One day the New British empire shall rise again and we shall overthrow the royal family, who were democratically removed in 1936 by popular vote, then forced back on us in 1946. Look what happened after the war in ulster, and in Austria Hungary, the things that took place. The Axis are the real bad guys. Long live our great saviour Winston Churchill!

I can see by your post count you're newish here. We tend to not look kindly on praising Churchill. I saw MaineLobster ban someone just recently for saying the Siege of New York was justified.
 
OOC: Isn't "Soviet" a Russian term? I don't think the communist US would refer to themselves using a word from a language most of its people don't speak.
 
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