Question On The Qing Dynasty Accepting British Demands

So I''ve always been interested in timeline where China does not suffer the slow decline and civil wars it did in 18th-19th century. Anyway, a forum on here said one of the earliest after 1790 possible options is to accept British demands for trade in such.

My question, is there a realistic way for that to come about without having to pull the old ASB?
 
The British who? Some island barbarians who want to pay tribute to me?

Seriously... You first have to make the Qing taking the Europeans seriously. Maybe the Spanish plan to conquer China got impemented earlier on, or christianity making some headway in China.
 
The British who? Some island barbarians who want to pay tribute to me?

Seriously... You first have to make the Qing taking the Europeans seriously. Maybe the Spanish plan to conquer China got impemented earlier on, or christianity making some headway in China.

For thousands of years, the only perceptible threat was from land, usually the steppes. Any entity that arrived by sea was clearly insignificant.

It took the Opium wars for the Chinese to really understand how the worldhad changed.
 
The British who? Some island barbarians who want to pay tribute to me?

Seriously... You first have to make the Qing taking the Europeans seriously. Maybe the Spanish plan to conquer China got impemented earlier on, or christianity making some headway in China.

Spanish plan to conquer what?
 
The British who? Some island barbarians who want to pay tribute to me?

Seriously... You first have to make the Qing taking the Europeans seriously. Maybe the Spanish plan to conquer China got impemented earlier on, or christianity making some headway in China.
Distance means nothing to you?:eek:
 
For thousands of years, the only perceptible threat was from land, usually the steppes. Any entity that arrived by sea was clearly insignificant.

It took the Opium wars for the Chinese to really understand how the worldhad changed.

Well they still don't consider Western powers to be a serious threat after Opium Wars, but the westernized Japan did knock some sense into them.
 
The Spanish plan doesn't have to work. They just have to do enough damage to get China to go 'wait, what?'.

It's not going to work. China had gotten used to Japanese corsairs for two centuries, what the Spanish would have done wasn't going to change their mindset.
 
http://www.samuelhawley.com/imjinarticle3.html

Late 16th century.

It would be kinda interesting to see if the Spanish decide to help Hideyoshi with his own plan to conquer China.

It's not going to work. China had gotten used to Japanese corsairs for two centuries, what the Spanish would have done wasn't going to change their mindset.

Unless the Spanish could supply enough horses, wars in China had always won on horseback before Opium Wars.

Well the "Japanese Pirates" were more focused on plundering, while the Spanish always had clear political objectives in their previous wars of conquests. They wouldn't hesitate to launch a seaborne attack on Nanjing or Beijing, Or try an Opium War style attack the Great Canal.

Or how about this:

The Japanese decided to keep Jeju after Imjin War, providing them with a constant supply of horse; and then Toyotomi Hideyori won the Japanese civil war, deciding to realize his father's dream of conquering Korea and ultimately China, this time with Spanish help.
 
Well the "Japanese Pirates" were more focused on plundering, while the Spanish always had clear political objectives in their previous wars of conquests. They wouldn't hesitate to launch a seaborne attack on Nanjing or Beijing, Or try an Opium War style attack the Great Canal.

Or how about this:

The Japanese decided to keep Jeju after Imjin War, providing them with a constant supply of horse; and then Toyotomi Hideyori won the Japanese civil war, deciding to realize his father's dream of conquering Korea and ultimately China, this time with Spanish help.
No, to launch such attack on Nanking and Tientsin was beyond 17th century Spain's abilities. OTL Brits had done that because of technological advancement and they had firmly established in both India and Malaysia. Transporting troops and supplying is not easy at all. Don't forget when horses get seasick and they are more likely to die.
 
The Japanese couldn't conquer Ming Empire was because they've tried that in Korea, but they stood no chance when facing Chinese cavalries. The Manchus succeeded only because they had subdued the Mongols and made them fight for their cause.
 
Or how about this:

The Japanese decided to keep Jeju after Imjin War, providing them with a constant supply of horse; and then Toyotomi Hideyori won the Japanese civil war, deciding to realize his father's dream of conquering Korea and ultimately China, this time with Spanish help.

Japan never controlled Jeju Island during the war itself, and even if it had, it would have made virtually no sense on a logistic level, as Tsushima (which was the main naval base during hostilities) was geographically much closer, not to mention that it was much easier to invade Gyeongsang than Jeolla, as the latter was extremely mountainous. The currents also flowed in the opposite direction, hindering the invaders from consistently suppling troops to the western island. Additionally, the horses present on Jeju itself would not have provided a significant impetus for a direct invasion, as they were of a smaller breed, and would have been unable to sustain a large force due to their low number.

Also, Toyotomi Hideyori's position after his father's death was extremely unstable precisely because of the devastating failure of the Imjin War, after which Tokugawa Ieyasu established a competing faction, as his core forces had not participated in the invasion of Korea. The Japanese court also decided to resume cordial relations with the Korean one soon after the conclusion of the war, indicating that it was willing to adopt the diplomatic route after extensively exhausting the military option. In addition, the fact that various daimyo had openly opposed the Imjin War, along with their rapid switch to Ieyasu soon after the conclusion of hostilities, suggest that even if Hideyori had won out, his power base would have been much more marginalized in comparison with that of his father. Additionally, Toyotomi Hideyoshi had issued several orders to curb growing Christian influence since 1587 due to various cultural tensions (and in anticipation of military ones), along with more suppressions and an outright ban in 1614 under Tokugawa Ieyasu.

As a result, it would have been extremely unlikely, if not impossible, for Hideyori to suddenly change tact and ally with Spain if there was a looming threat of a Spanish invasion of the archipelago soon after the defeat in Korea and another civil war within Japan. On the other hand although Joseon had severely underestimated Japan before 1592, leading to lax preparation, it would not have made the same mistake twice if another invasion had been in the works soon after 1600, as it had increased its number of diplomatic missions. As a result, Korea would have rapidly shifted its focus to militarization, butterflying the political strife that had occurred IOTL, in addition to a much more significant mobilization by China, and a potential counter-invasion of Japan, which would only reconfirm the status quo after devastating the four countries involved in the second conflict.
 
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