Question: How can we make Maltese Glory?

If the people are Christian, does the word Soltan mean anything?

  • Glorja Malta!

    Votes: 18 46.2%

  • Pipe down you upstart islanders!

    Votes: 21 53.8%
  • Total voters
    39

Isfendil

What combination of PODs and factors will it take for the Maltese language and culture to become a dominant imperial force in the Mediterranean from the mid 15th century onwards? Is there anything at all that can bring these people glory and spread their languages and culture to a sizeable swathe of the world? I like them lots because they speak the only Semitic language born in Europe. I hope the excellent folks here can offer their considerable expertise to this lowly trainee historian.

EDIT: if anyone wants to make a timeline before I ever decide to and get the chance, I humbly beseech and request them to have the maltese call their emperors Soltans, rather than Imperators.

2nd EDIT: I am not maltese nor am I in anyway affiliated with the maltese nor are any of my ancestors. I just really like the language and concept.
 
Last edited:

Isfendil

Slight tangent

I think I may post more if these "research question" threads in the future, is the chat/non-political a better sub forum for them or is this the best one?
 

gochisox

The only concevable way that I could see this happen is for Malta to take the place of Venice, Pisa and Genoa. Its situated in a position where that is at least possible, and with it being closer to the North African coast, it could be a melting pot, make it the one area in the world where theres a large mixing of all different cultures, and the rulers are just getting too rich on the trade to stop it. From there have them make an insainly strong trading fleet and have Maltese become the lingua franca of trade. Convert that to land gain, probably in Italy with marriages, and just have a slow diffusion through the power of the monarchy and trade both adopting it. Cant see it happen through military though.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
I think the best chance for this would be a highly Maltese Knights of St.John (as in, all documentation, administration, etc is in Maltese) is given the support to invade and conquer Tunisia - with the end result being the rule of Tunisia by Maltese Knights. If they have the mandate and the support to go west, then they have every chance to enforce the conversion to Christ, and adoption of their language to their new territories.

Now this basically is giving them a crutch, but I think if the Papal States used them as the extension of the Papacy, then a Christianising North Africa, tasked with maintaining security of the Mediterranean for Christendom? That I can see, and I can see it spiralling into invasions (if not successful conquests) of the Turks.

Essentially, they could earn their glory from being the Best Most Christian Knights club, combined with Crusader Fervor, to establish themselves in North Africa, and then leading the propoganda-fueled reconquest of the Middle East.

Technically, the Knights may not need to rule North Africa, but simply install Maltese rulers who maintain the administration the Knights set up - and lend their support to the Knights.

Could be an interesting dynamic with the Pope concerning themselves with Doctrine, and the Knights concerning themselves with the defense and expansion of Christendom - essentially leading a coalition of "Crusader Kingdoms".

----

Alternatively, the "Kingdom of Malta" could fulfill this role, perhaps by setting itself up as a major naval and trade power. Being slap-bang in the middle of the Mediterranean would help do so, especially if they can either persuade/force the Muslim kingdoms to trade under their "protection", and set up Maltese Enclaves. Once those are set up, the culture can expand, and they can potentially be more traditionally Imperialist.
 

Isfendil

GdwnsnHo said:
Alternatively, the "Kingdom of Malta" could fulfill this role, perhaps by setting itself up as a major naval and trade power. Being slap-bang in the middle of the Mediterranean would help do so, especially if they can either persuade/force the Muslim kingdoms to trade under their "protection", and set up Maltese Enclaves. Once those are set up, the culture can expand, and they can potentially be more traditionally Imperialist.
Click to expand...

gochisox said:
The only concevable way that I could see this happen is for Malta to take the place of Venice, Pisa and Genoa. Its situated in a position where that is at least possible, and with it being closer to the North African coast, it could be a melting pot, make it the one area in the world where theres a large mixing of all different cultures, and the rulers are just getting too rich on the trade to stop it. From there have them make an insainly strong trading fleet and have Maltese become the lingua franca of trade. Convert that to land gain, probably in Italy with marriages, and just have a slow diffusion through the power of the monarchy and trade both adopting it. Cant see it happen through military though.
Click to expand...


These actually seem like the most likely from my point of view, as they would at least offer the notoriety and diffusion. As for the knights ... The thing is, aren't there a ton of Arabs living in Malta? Who fled from the expulsions? Wouldn't that detract from things?

Besides weren't crusades starting to get bad for business? I think this merchant lord route is the most likely.
 

Lampiao

1 - Spain gives a random piece of American land to the Knights.
2 - The Knights settle Maltese people there.
2 - The colony flourishes.
 

Isfendil

Lampiao said:
1 - Spain gives a random piece of American land to the Knights.
2 - The Knights settle Maltese people there.
2 - The colony flourishes.
Click to expand...

This works perfectly- But why would Spain give land to the knights? Isn't that more the Pope's decision?
 
Timaeus

Timaeus

Isfendil said:
This works perfectly- But why would Spain give land to the knights? Isn't that more the Pope's decision?
Click to expand...

"There is no Pope in Spain," as the Spanish royals put it. There was an understanding in Spain that the Pope manages spiritual affairs and the King manages temporal ones. The Pope divided the world between Spain and Portugal, but only because that Pope was himself Spanish and under the Spanish thumb.
 

Isfendil

Timaeus said:
"There is no Pope in Spain," as the Spanish royals put it. There was an understanding in Spain that the Pope manages spiritual affairs and the King manages temporal ones. The Pope divided the world between Spain and Portugal, but only because that Pope was himself Spanish and under the Spanish thumb.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, forgot which pope it was. Okay why would the Spanish give the knights land?
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Isfendil said:
Oh yeah, forgot which pope it was. Okay why would the Spanish give the knights land?
Click to expand...

The only way I can see it is if the Spanish fundamentally change their approach to conquest. They had the whole phrase - God, Glory and Gold, and were legitimately able to claim huge territories because of the Pope.

You'd again need to change the way that Crusading, or Religious Conquests worked - and I am not sure that it would work for the Americas.

Again, N.Africa comes to mind -> The Spanish could have been persuaded to give their N.African territories to the Knights, in exchange for Papal Dispensation to rule the new world - and the Knights may still have been able to encourage Europeans to come and fight for them.

Still somewhat tenuous though.

Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way.

What if we go further back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Sicily

This was in OTL a victory for the Muslims, what if the betrayal is either stopped because of a Maltese Lord, or a Maltese Officer takes over after the death of the Roman General, and as a reward is named overlord of the territories in Sicily.

Assuming a similar amount of damage, he could rule using the Maltese, but import various other cultures to repopulate the island, and make both Greek and Maltese important on the island. Bit of Glory there. Given time, success, strength and good leadership, Sicily could have the strength to invade other parts of the world on its own back.
 

Isfendil

GdwnsnHo said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Sicily

This was in OTL a victory for the Muslims, what if the betrayal is either stopped because of a Maltese Lord, or a Maltese Officer takes over after the death of the Roman General, and as a reward is named overlord of the territories in Sicily.

Assuming a similar amount of damage, he could rule using the Maltese, but import various other cultures to repopulate the island, and make both Greek and Maltese important on the island. Bit of Glory there. Given time, success, strength and good leadership, Sicily could have the strength to invade other parts of the world on its own back.
Click to expand...

This would actually defeat the whole purpose of spreading the culture as the maltese language would not come to exist because it's descended from Siqiliyan (Siculo-Arabic), and the maltese culture would be profoundly different and alien to the one in OTL.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Isfendil said:
This would actually defeat the whole purpose of spreading the culture as the maltese language would not come to exist because it's descended from Siqiliyan (Siculo-Arabic), and the maltese culture would be profoundly different and alien to the one in OTL.
Click to expand...

Could have a beautiful irony where the same Arabs are imported in, merging the two languages together, to form Maltese then. Technically a different Maltese, but they could form the same essentially culture with the same people involved.

But I get your point :)
 

Isfendil

GdwnsnHo said:
Could have a beautiful irony where the same Arabs are imported in, merging the two languages together, to form Maltese then. Technically a different Maltese, but they could form the same essentially culture with the same people involved.

But I get your point :)
Click to expand...

How do the Arabs get there on this hypothesis?
 

Isfendil

GdwnsnHo said:
Imported labour? Quite simply, go to the North African coast, and invite/offer work. Some would come, at least I would assume.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's the same as cramming a bunch of expelled Arabs on an island. The language as we know it would not come to exist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top