North American P.O.D.s

[HUCK]

Can I get a list of possible North American P.O.D.s?

[HUCK]

Not one person?

[jmberry]

Ignoring the more well known PODS here are a few:
Different colonial patterns
France wins the 7 years war

Canada stays New France in the peace treaty (most likely by France giving up its sugar islands)

Florida stays British

Napoleon refuses Jefferson's offer outright, or only gives the US New Orleans itself (as per the initial offer)

France puts down the Haitian revolt

Mexico stays a monarchy

Mexico wins the Mexican-American War (actually plausible - Mexico had the most powerful army in the Western hemisphere)

The Ostend Manifesto succeeds

California remains an independent nation

Different slavery settlements

Different reconstruction

Various elections turn out differently

Huey Long not shot

Different civil rights

Cuba succesfully invaded in the Bay of Pigs

Bobby Kennedy not stabbed

Faster space program

Slower space program

Watergate goes differently

No Three Mile Island(A nuclear reactor in every city;))

Most everything after that is too recent to really write an in depth alternate history about

[Jambor]

Three mile island? What about Chyrnoble? That could deter the use of nuclear power.

[HUCK]

Mexico wins the Mexican-American War (actually plausible - Mexico had the most powerful army in the Western hemisphere)


The only problem was that Mexico was so bankrupt.

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

My North American POD is:

Mexico wins the Mexican American War

Florida stays Spanish

Larger and richer Mexico

California is a state of Mexico

Texas is a state of Mexico

No Texas revolution

Smaller United States

Cuba stays Spanish until 1920

Puerto Rico become an independent nation in 1910

[Atom]

PODS (In chronological order):
-Corn spreads earlier into the Mississipian basin an beyond;
-California domesticates various crops and developes an agricultural society;
-Chumash klinker built boats spread down the Pacific coast;
-Fremont Culture survives in southern Utah/Northern Arizona/Western Colorado;
-Bigger Mississipian cultures present in 1492;
-Aztecs neverbecome powerful other ploity in the Mexican valley become important;
-Spanish never enter the Southwest,
-Iriqouis do not defeat Mohicans, do not get dutch guns, and are crushed by the Huron and various other tribes. Ohio valley not depopulated by the Iriqouis in the 17/18th centuries;
-No Tuscarora war, Southeastern tribes less united, Iriqouis do not get interested in the south, Carolinas not as powerful;
-Earlier interest in California by the Spanish;

Out of ideas for now, will add more later.

[maverick]

Well...

1500s...Columbus and other explorers get to north America rather than the Caribbean

1500s...Cortez is killed and the conquest of Mexico is avoided

1600s...The French colony in Florida succeeds

1760s...Washington killed at Fort Necessity

American revolutionary war:
-What if the British had won at Saratoga?
-What if the French had not helped the Revolutionaries?
-What if the Newburgh Conspiracy resulted in a continuation of the war?

What if the Whiskey Rebellion had been more successful?


1798: What if the Quasi-war a real war?
1807: What if an earlier second Anglo-American war?

[maverick]

-What if the Shays rebellion more successful? 1786
-What if Leisler's New York rebellion had spread? 1690
-What if the Virginia Rebellion of 1676 had been bigger?
-What if the War of Regulation of 1760 had led to an earlier revolution?
-What if Revolution began in 1770 rather than in 1776?

[HUCK]

-What if the Shays rebellion more successful? 1786
-What if Leisler's New York rebellion had spread? 1690
-What if the Virginia Rebellion of 1676 had been bigger?
-What if the War of Regulation of 1760 had led to an earlier revolution?
-What if Revolution began in 1770 rather than in 1776?
You sure like rebellions.:D

[jmberry]

Well...
1760s...Washington killed at Fort Necessity

I'm already working on that one :).

[Umbral]

I've always fancied one where the vikings manage to transfer their ship-tech to the indians. And maybe iron tech. Its hard to find any info on the tribes of northeastern america pre-colombus though.

[HUCK]

I've always fancied one where the vikings manage to transfer their ship-tech to the indians. And maybe iron tech. Its hard to find any info on the tribes of northeastern america pre-colombus though.
Uh-huh. That may work.

[Umbric Man]

Perhaps one where the Niagara Peninsula and Maritimes somehow go over to the Americans in the Revolution. The difficulty for England in populating the Canadian west would grow, IMO.

[DuQuense]

I've always fancied one where the vikings manage to transfer their ship-tech to the Indians. And maybe iron tech. Its hard to find any info on the tribes of northeastern America pre-colombus though.
http://etc.usf.edu/maps/pages/2400/2467/2467.htm

?How about Custer and the 7th, NOT at Little Big Horn?

?No Trail of Tears?

Spanish win the Battle of Bloody Marsh in 1745. Georgia remains a Free State.

John Finch's steamship Company is a success in the 1780's, earlier Steamships on the Rivers of North America.

[Ofaloaf]

-Mexico stays Spanish.
-Dutch, Courlander (heh), Danish, and Swedish colonies are not swallowed up by other powers.
-Steam locomotive railroads are introduced earlier/later to NA.
-The Hindenberg doesn't burn to death in New Jersey.
-The US Transcontinental railroad takes the earlier proposed southern route.
-No Panama Canal/French Panama Canal/Canal elsewhere
-Brown vs. Board of Education/President Eisenhower doesn't force integration in schools.
-US military action in Mexico because of that one bandit I can't remember the name of.
-Different immigration patterns (whatever happened to that one TL about more Muslims from the Ottoman Empire settling in the US?)
-Henry Ford fails to find investors for the Ford Motor Company (a very near thing in OTL-- he had already driven a few of his own startups into the ground)
-T.D. Judah convinces Cornelius Vanderbuilt to buy out the Central Pacific in 1864.

[Dutchie]

Perhaps one where the Niagara Peninsula and Maritimes somehow go over to the Americans in the Revolution. The difficulty for England in populating the Canadian west would grow, IMO.

why does it always seem to be bits of future Canada joining the revolution is suggested, rather than the other way around...?

How about Loyalists resettle to and set up a strong presence between the Adirondacks and Lakes Ontario & Erie, and at least in the north the fledging US remains more Atlantic-centric. Maybe the border runs from Lake Champlian in an SW arc around the finger-lakes and on to the Ohio river...

[lonewulf44]

Chinese establish Pacific empire including Western NA.

Russia establishes herself much more south and more inland.

French gain more formal alliance with US that lasts into the Napoleonic wars.

War of 1812 causes the US to fragment into New England, Mid-Atlantic, Southern, and Kentucky/Tennessee regions.

British stop internment of US sailors, W1812 avoided and desire for Canada remains.

Rebellions of 1837 are more widespread. US secretly sends aid.

Texas declares secedes from the Union but also declares independence from the CSA as well. Lone Star Republic returns.

Mexico conquers all Central America.

Teddy wins Republican nomination 1912

Mexico acts on the Z-telegram.

Hitler never DoW on the US

[laster]

how about these
1. Teddy roosevelt wins election as bull mooser in 1912, creating a more socialist and more militant usa.
2. JFK lives out two terms worth, doesn't get us into V-Nam war, and the south vietnamese govt falls in 1966, helping to elect Dick Nixon on a 'who lost vietnam' platfom in 1968.a later, more venemous us involvement in indochina, in laos and cambodia, in the 1970's.
3. Napoleon wins european war, retains the louisiana purchase, and invades the usa from the west.
4. hitler's killed in the stauffenberg plot, leading to a tangled german surrender process, a civil war in which some of the german army surrenders, and some, like in the curent Iraq mess, continue a serious guerrilla campagn against the occupying forces.
5. while usa's distracted by the unfortunate civil war, the european powers divvy up latin america.
6. roman/european religions history shakes oput differently, leading to a usa more firmly centered in classical theories of govt(triumvirates, temporary dictators)and men largly mathras worshippers and women isis worshippers, with a strong gnostic religious group.

whaddya ya think?

[AirshipArmada]

I'll throw these into the pot:

• Spanish Reconquista fails >> no/slower Spanish conquest of NA
• No English Civil War >> slower English conquest of NA
• Indians win King Philips War >> Puritans fail, more tractable English succeed w/ better Indian relations
• No Bacon's Rebellion >> better black/white relations, shorter duration of slavery
• Small Pox outbreak amongst Iroquois at end of French Indian War >> England wins ARW
• Charles Lee in charge of AWR forces >> England wins?
• Russia keeps Alaska >> Russia gets gold, expands, wins Russo-Japanese War, no Soviet Union
• No Spanish American War >> Japan keeps Mongolia and China in WWII
• No President Pierce >> different ACW
• Lincoln not shot >> different reconstruction
• US nuclear first strike in 1962 with little effective USSR retaliation >> US Evil Empire

[Snake Featherston]

Some PODs:

Norse colonization stronger in Greenland.

Different Indian tribes surviving the aftermath of the plagues and the introduction of the horse to deal with Europeans than OTL.

Little Turtle winning his war against the US.

US defeat and breakup after a War of 1812 loss.

Tecumseh wins his war.

Andrew Jackson wins against John Q. Adams

William Harrison lives to finish out his term.

Aaron Burr succeeds in his conspiracy.

US adopts a much more brutal Indian War policy than the OTL one (which was nasty enough, in any case).

Mexico modernizes its army before the Mexican-American war.

More Muslims or Hindus immigrate to the US, fewer Europeans do.

Canada expands into some OTL US territory (perhaps a different Maine border and the Oregon territory kept, or maybe the northern boundary of Louisiana is decided differently).

Haitian Revolution fails.

Mexico's southern boundary extends further south than OTL.

Mormons remain in New York instead of being expelled to Utah.

No Mexican Revolution in 1911.

No Zapatista Revolution.

Quebec never annexed (for you, Valamyr ;) ).

US is mostly Catholic with a scattered Protestant group that later becomes the largest single bloc, OTL in reverse.

Canada is mostly Catholic (outside of Quebec.)

Mexico is Protestant.

Mexican Revolution delayed by 20 years.

American Revolutionary War without France.

American Revolutionary War with more European powers involved.

Longer lived Iturbide Mexican Empire.

Longer lived Habsburg Mexican Empire.

US adopts a monarchy.

Canada becomes a strict Republic.

All English NA colonies revolt in 1776, Canada, the Eastern seaboard, and the Caribbean colonies.

CSA includes the entire Slave South, instead of only part of it.

Earlier Union victory in Civil War.

Later Union victory in Civil War.

Different provinces in Canada.

Different states in the US.

Different states in Mexico.

George Washington is never tricked into signing the declaration that sparked the Seven Year's War.

US conquers Canada in 1776.

US conquers Canada in 1812.

Constitution defeated in the US.

Spanish defeat the Mexican Revolution.

Napoleon doesn't sell Louisiana.

Russia expands more into North America.

North America named North Columbia.

North America never settled by Indians.

North America never separates from the rest of Laurentia by the time humans evolve.

More megafauna survive the Decimation caused by the Indians.

More powerful states in North America besides the Aztecs, Maya, and Mississippians prior to 1492.

More dense population in NA prior to 1492 (even the highest estimates place much fewer people in NA north of the Mexica than south of them.)

Neanderthals reach NA before modern humans, and then are decimated by them as happened in Europe.

Australians settle the New World instead of Siberians.

Ainu settle New World instead of Siberians.

More contact prior to 1492 than existed.

Stronger Native American presence north of Mexico.

Homo erectus reaches NA before Neanderthals, both of which die before humankind.

[Umbral]

More successful "5 civilized tribes"

Better maritime technology