AH Challenge: Independent Siberia

[Rekjavik]

Your challenge is to have the whole of Siberia as an independent and successful state in the present day, totally independent from European Russia. How you do this is up to you.

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

I think it's impossible because Siberia has only few people due to its climate. If the population of Siberia is 40 million and Yakut-dominated region, maybe Siberia is an independent country.

[Hendryk]

If you can settle for Siberia east of the Ienisei river, then I met the challenge in "Superpower Empire (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=26878)". Chinese intervention during the Russian civil war resulted in the creation of an independent country in eastern Siberia called (somewhat improperly) Yakutia in 1922.

It is, to this day, quite sparsely populated. Between its size, its climate, its low population density and the fact that it is politically under the thumb of its much more powerful southern neighbor, it is frequently referred to as "the Asian Canada".

[Hendryk]

BTW, to get a "feel" of Yakutia and the circumstances surrounding its creation, here are some stories from my series Tales of the Superpower Empire:


"Jakutija (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=36963)" by Leo Caesius;
"The Incident at Saint Andrew's (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=38559)" by Justin Pickard;
"Depression of White (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=39039)" by G.Bone;
"Yossi's Tale (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=40865)" by David bar Elias;
"The Spirit Arc (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=41688)" by Doctor What.

And here's the national flag of Yakutia:

[rcduggan]

Check the "Anglophone Siberia" thread. Muscovy never dominates the Rus', and the Kazan and Sibir khanates block Russian expansion eastward. This leads to English, Novgorodians, Swedish, or someone else colonizing Siberia. Maybe later it revolts against colonial rule, setting up an independent government.


http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=95582&highlight=Siberia
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=56048

[Grey Wolf]

Far Eastern Republic in a meaningful way

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[CanadianGoose]

Nazi Germany won in 1941-1942, but this "victory" broke German Army. It was unable to move East of Volga River much. Stalin is dead and remnants of Soviet leadership organize Siberian Republic from what's left of evacuated Soviet people and refugees (there're millions of them in 1942-1946, fleeing Nazi's "paradise"). There's an AH novel in Russian about it, written by Andrei Lazarchuk.

[jmberry]

Siberia breaks away during the Russian Civil War. There you go.

[SRT]

Siberia breaks away during the Russian Civil War. There you go.

And... doesn't get successfully recaptured by the Red Army, as in OTL?

I think there's a possibility after the breakup of the Soviet Union. And I think there's a possibility in FH too...

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Rek, how 'bout giving us some POD guidelines?

[Grey Wolf]

Rek, how 'bout giving us some POD guidelines?

Well, in OTL the various republics were to a large degree competing socialist elements for control of all RUSSIA, just setting up localised gov'ts in the areas they controlled

If the Whites won in the West, its possible that either

-1- the FER socialists would hold out independent
-2- the Japanese puppet FER would hold out in their sphere of influence

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Tony Jones]

I had something like this in Cliveless World (http://www.clockworksky.net/cliveless_world/ah_cliveless_world_asia.html#asf), with the Russian government, taking on board a new ideology of extreme economic rationalism (http://www.clockworksky.net/cliveless_world/ah_cliveless_politics.html#uer), just dumping Siberia (and Alaska too) as not of sufficient benefit to the state to be worth keeping. They were thus forced onto their own resources and eventually managed to get back on their feet...

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

I will presume that in independent Siberia lead by the Yakuts, Vladivostok area would not be included to Yakut Siberia but instead Vladivostok area is included to China.

[Ptholemaios]

Siberia would not be independent for long. It's too poor and too damn cold to survive as a state. It would sooner or later (rather sooner) align with some major power, no longer being independent.

[LordInsane]

Siberia would not be independent for long. It's too poor and too damn cold to survive as a state. It would sooner or later (rather sooner) align with some major power, no longer being independent.
De facto is not the same as de jure, and being aligned is not the same thing as not being indepedent. Oh, of course their independence would be quite limited, but they could still be an independent state, as such, as long as they don't stray too far.

[Shadow Knight]

What about a Siberia that included all of Mongolia (including outer Mongolia)?

Would this give enough population to be a more viable state?

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Siberia would not be independent for long. It's too poor and too damn cold to survive as a state. It would sooner or later (rather sooner) align with some major power, no longer being independent.

Tell it to Canada.

Siberia has oil, natural gas, coal, gold, silver, lead, nickel, zinc, uranium, molybdenum, diamonds, timber, plus good agricultural land if you get the southwest.

[Hendryk]

Tell it to Canada.

Siberia has oil, natural gas, coal, gold, silver, lead, nickel, zinc, uranium, molybdenum, diamonds, timber, plus good agricultural land if you get the southwest.
Not to mention fishing on its Pacific coast. I believe it would have touristic potential, too, in the same way that Canada does.

My TL's Yakutia is home to some 12 million people by the early 21st century, which isn't much in terms of population density, but a respectable figure in the absolute--more than, say, Cuba or Portugal.

[Susano]

Of course, from what I understand, in your TL the Russians magically disappear from Yakutia. Or those who remain must be collectively under the influence of heavy sedatives...

[Hendryk]

Of course, from what I understand, in your TL the Russians magically disappear from Yakutia. Or those who remain must be collectively under the influence of heavy sedatives...
No, about a third of Yakutia's population at the time of its creation is Russian. It's a vague estimate because finding reliable figures for Siberia's ethnic breakdown at the time of the Bolshevik revolution is pretty hard, and I'll adjust it if I do find precise data. That proportion decreases in the following decades because of Chinese immigration, so that by the early 21st century it is somewhere around 20%.

And the Yakutian Russians actually count their blessings to be safe from the Bolsheviks, so for the most part they don't rock the boat. They also tend to be deliberately kept away from positions of political power by the new regime, which instead favors more reliably loyal communities (the various aboriginal ethnic groups, the Jews, etc.) to ward off Russian irredentism. But then, Yakutia isn't a democracy at that point, and only becomes one more than half a century later.