WI: Star Wars prequel in the late 1980's

[Michael E Johnson]

From: Tristan Jones (tristan@scm-rpg.com.au)
Subject: WI: Star Wars prequel in the late 1980's


View this article only
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if
Date: 2004-02-02 16:58:01 PST


Earlier Star Wars Epsoides I-III

The POD is that George Lucas marriage does not breakdown after he
completed Return of the Jedi in 1983 and derailed his career for a
while. Starting in 1984 or 1985 George Lucas decides to start making
the Star Wars prequel triology. With George being busy with the
Indiana Jones series, he probably not direct the prequels. Although he
would be co-writer of the scripts and be an executive producer of the
triology. That would make for a better prequel trilogy than in OTL,
especially if Lucas decides to use the same guy who directed The
Empire Strikes Back.

How would a Star Wars Prequel made in the 1980's be different to OTL
prequel, Epsiode I would probably have Anakin as teenager or young
adult, instead of a young kid and have little or none of those
annoying things which the OTL prequel had like Jar Jar Binks?

Here are my suggestions on who would star as the following characthers
in a mid to late 1980's prequel

Anakin Skywalker: Kiefer Sutherland
Obi-Wan Kenobi: suggestions anyone?
Queen Amdiala: Helena Bonham Carter

[Kuralyov]

Would there even be an Amidala and Obi-wan in such a prequel?

My thoughts on this: Remember in A New Hope, when Obi-wan tells Luke that 'when I first met your father, he was the best starpilot in the Galaxy,' or somethign like that? Before Episode I, I always took that to mean that they met in the Clone Wars (say, Anakin was the pilot of Obi-wans troopship, or something) and Obi-wan started to train him as a Jedi then, and that was why Anakin fell to the dark side.

Running with that, perhaps we see the early life of Anakin: him joining the Republic Navy, becoming a pilot, the beginning of the Clone Wars?

[MerryPrankster]

He said that Anakin was a "great pilot" and a ten-year-old driving essentially a rocket-powered flying race-car certainly shows skill.

However, I don't think that having Anakin as a ten-year-old was what most people had in mind.

[Xen]

The original plot line had Anakin as a young man that was a star fighter pilot from Tatooine (yes Tatooine). I have a friend that has alot of prints from the late 70s early 80s talking about the history of the SW Galaxy. The Clone Wars had lasted at this point for several generations, that is why the Senate was so corrupt, there were those Senators lining their pockets from the war. By the rise of Palpatine the citizens of the Republic were extremly war weary and very receptive to Palpatine's attempts to end the war. Thats why they so easily accepted the banishment of the Jedi and the declaration of the Empire. Palpatine did in fact end the war, there was peace for about 10 years before small pockets of resistence began to fight the Emperor's Iron Fisted Rule.

However thanks to the Expanded Universe which really watered down the Star Wars galaxy, especially the Young Jedi Knights series and the arrival of the third Solo child, not to mention the Empires endless supplies of Superweapons the galaxy began to lose its feel for the intellectuals, it became almost childish.

Now had Lucas went ahead and started making the series in the late 1980's, lets say he films Episode I in 1988, edits it in 1989, and releases it in 1990, it would have nipped the worst of the worst of the EU in the butt. Anakin probably would have been about 15 and flying Z-95's in the Clone Wars when he meets Obi-Wan. Now originally the Jedi didn't have the restrictions they did in the PT, read the EU from the 1980s when it was at its best. The Jedi were plentiful, and could take on students regardless of age, Obi-Wan takes on Anakin, and we know there will be an Amidala, perhaps as a fellow pilot, and Obi-Wan a Jedi Knight.

We'd have Episode I in 1990, Episode II in 1993, and Episode III in 1996. They would be on a very intellectual level, and no where near as Childish as Episode I. Coming off the two great successes in the SW universe, Lucas begins to write his final trilogy with Episode VII set to be released in 2002, Episode VIII in 2005 and Episode IX in 2008.

The PT would star Wynona Ryder as Padme
River Phoenix as Anakin
Not Quite Sure Who as Obi-Wan

It is set at the End of the Clone Wars with the Republic Clone Troopers fighting an Army of Mandolarian clones (think a bunch of Boba and Jango Fetts). The Mandolarians are led by the Sith Master Darth Sidious (really Count Dooku) whose apprentice is Senator Palpatine, who has successfully been planted in the Republic leadership. In Episode II Yoda kills Sidious but is stranded on the planet of Dagobah. Senator Palpatine corrupts Anakin who was charged with his protection, Anakin and Obi-Wan have a major fight on Sullust where Anakin is disfigured and rises from the Ash as Darth Vader.

The ST will star Natalie Portman and Keira Knightley as twin Solo sisters and Jedi knights
Aalyiah as Lando's daughter
Jonathon Taylor Thomas as Han and Leia's son

It is set against the backdrop of the rise of a new Sith Empire, and their droid Army invading Republic Space from the unknown regions.

[Archangel Michael]

Darth Sidious is actually Palpetine, at least in AToC.

[Xen]

Darth Sidious is actually Palpetine, at least in AToC.

Yeah I know, I love the Star Wars series. Im somewhat dissappointed in the PT and the EU, but at least AOTC showed signs of the OT, it began to recapture the original feel. Hopefully Episode III is able to return to that feel, it will be hard though because we all know Anakin will be Darth Vader which puts the PT at a disadvantage from the get go. I liked elements of TPM, the Podrace had greater potential, the lightsaber fight with Maul, Kenobi and Jinn was awesome. Qui-Gons character was by far the greatest element of the movie. But it had too much of a kiddy feel to it with the diaper wearing Anakin, the teenie Queenie, and the bumbling Jar Jar.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

ROtJ was already pretty disappointing, and Lucas has said that ESB wasn't what he wanted. I don't think the prequels being done in the 1980s would have improved matters much, and the costume and set design wouldn't have been as awesome (the only good points, IMO).

Eps I & II stank so bad that I'm not even going to bother with the third. I actually thought Ep II was as bad as Ep I. I don't see how any director can take actors as talented and charismatic as Natalie Portman, Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, and Hayden Christiansen and utterly drain them of life and interest. And the writing and dialog - horrifying. You could sum up Ep II:

"Will you marry me?"
"No."

"Will you marry me?"
"No."

"Will you marry me?"
"No."

"Will you marry me?"
"No."

"I just committed an act of genocide and really enjoyed it".
"OK, I'll marry you."

If these movies are intended for kids (and judging by the plot holes, for 3-yr old kids), then providing solid reinforcement of everyone's suspicion that girls like the bad boy, Lucas should do some rethinking.

And Queen of an entire planet, and she couldn't cough up the change to spring his mother? Whaaaa?

[MerryPrankster]

"I just committed an act of genocide and really enjoyed it".

He enjoyed it? I thought when he wiped out the band of Sand People (genocide?), he was in full-blown unfeeling vengeance mode and when he had calmed down a bit, he felt bad. He started crying in the middle of telling Amidala about it, IIRC.

"But it had too much of a kiddy feel to it with the diaper wearing Anakin, the teenie Queenie, and the bumbling Jar Jar."

The Queen bit is kinda silly. I figure that if Anakin is going to meet her as a child and eventually marry her, she has to be somewhat close to his own age, but how precisely does one get elected to high office at 14?

Does anyone remember www.diejarjardie.com? At least in "Attack of the Clones," he does something that furthers the plot (supports emergency powers for Palpatine).

[Archangel Michael]

What was the F@*!%ing point of Jar-Jar, except to entertain the kids!!

[David Howery]

This is probably going to sound heretical, but I didn't think Ep. 1 or 2 were really bad movies... they just weren't up to the standards of the first trilogy. Part of it was the writing and part of it the acting.. they just didn't grab your attention like the first trilogy. Still, the special effects were so superb, it made up for some of the other shortcomings...

[Melvin Loh]

As to who could've played Obi-Wan in a mid-late 80s SW prequel, how about Cary Elwes (from THE PRINCESS BRIDE and GLORY) ? This dude is a pretty fine actor, although had he taken on the Obi-Wan role who knows whether he would still have been able to play the heroic role of Maj Cabot Forbes in GLORY ?

I agree with Dave on the nature of the prequels with Episodes 1 & 2, and Xen, your proposed ATL timeline is very interesting.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

"I just committed an act of genocide and really enjoyed it".

He enjoyed it? I thought when he wiped out the band of Sand People (genocide?), he was in full-blown unfeeling vengeance mode and when he had calmed down a bit, he felt bad. He started crying in the middle of telling Amidala about it, IIRC.

He felt bad because it had felt so good. That's what he said.

[MerryPrankster]

"He felt bad because it had felt so good. That's what he said."

Okay. A nice bit of foreshadowing.

[ljofa]

Kenneth Brannagh was certainly touted out and about as a name for a younger Obi-Wan.

I would have thought that the prequels would have made more use of the characters Grand Moff Tarkin, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa etc.

However, once ROTJ was completed, Lucas wanted to have epic battles and the only way to do them successfully was to have CGI, especially with the concept of the clone wars.

My personal understanding was that there would be a number of planets in the republic plotting a power-grab and grew some armies, wreaked a bit of devastation and as the wars expanded, the Jedi got sucked in.

Once the dust had settled down, Palpatine is able to overthrow the Jedi, set himself up as the Emperor and a horrified Alderaan becomes pacifist. However, I'd always imagined his empire to be a bit older than the 19 years at the time of the 1st Death Star. Ah well.

[zoomar]

Episodes I and II, and to some extent ROTJ show what can happen when one person with a huge ego and less huge abilities gains complete control over an artistic/entertainment enterprise. Lucas clearly has a true gift for visualization, for tapping into cultural values, and for broad narrative, but his ability to write dialog and direct human actors is nonexistent (kind of reminds me of another flawed artist in early 20th century Austria who ganed complete control over a whole country, but that's another issue). In the latest 2 Star Wars films he clearly needed somebody to tell him to hire a real director and screenwriter to do the work with people. Also, by adding a lot of late 20th century political sensibilities (an elected 15-year-old Queen????? talk about "democracy"??) he completely ruined the logical consistency of the Star Wars Universe as embodied in the original films. And "midichlorians? Here he takes a neat concept like the Force which can be interpreted in so many ways and terns it into a clinical medical condition!!!

Regarding the basic question, I suspect Episides I and II would have been better had they followed directly on the first 3 movies because Lucas might not have forgotten what made SW such a great movie and kept the feel of the originals. Special effects would not have been so good, but they'd probably have been much better movies.

But, I'm still hooked. I will certainly be one of the first in line for Episode III, which might be OK since it should be full of nearly nothing but battles.

[The Gunslinger]

As I have stated many times at school. The new trilogy is the bastard child of Star Wars. It's there, but many refuse to acknowledge it. Personally, I was horrified at Episode 1, and Episode wasn't much better. And the acting was beyond comparison. I think that he aimed the movies at a younger audience. What with Jar Jar, and that Anakin fellow. And those bloody midochlorians, that got my blood rushing. But anyways. Unless he tried to do a total epic all out and out job, I think that it would be destined to never be as good as the original. Star Wars raised the bar for sci-fi and special effects. He tried to do it again in I and II but couldn't pull it off with the CG. But ya, I think that the whole Star Wars universe would probobly be better off altogether though if he tried it in the 80's. But then what happens to the print? The novels have all been superb. Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson along with a host of others have all done commendable jobs on the novels. I don't know, if they ever did a third trilogy, I would like it to be Zahn's heir to the Empire trilogy with Thrawn. He was alwas my favourite enemy ever. But anywho. I'm a little long winded with Star Wars and have pretty well summed up what I think.

[MattRice]

This is probably going to sound heretical, but I didn't think Ep. 1 or 2 were really bad movies... they just weren't up to the standards of the first trilogy. Part of it was the writing and part of it the acting.. they just didn't grab your attention like the first trilogy. Still, the special effects were so superb, it made up for some of the other shortcomings...


I personaly think the effects were TOO superb... They certainly took the attention away from any serious plot lines... Ever since ROtJ, with the huge battle around the second Death Star, the Fighter scenes have been too quick and zappy.... what made the first film (ie SW) for me was the almost 'ballet' moves of the x-wings and tie fighters... you could follow the action... The new SFX are just too much.... Too fast, too much going on...Pile of crud in my oppinion...

[MattRice]

As I have stated many times at school. The new trilogy is the bastard child of Star Wars. It's there, but many refuse to acknowledge it. Personally, I was horrified at Episode 1, and Episode wasn't much better. And the acting was beyond comparison. I think that he aimed the movies at a younger audience. What with Jar Jar, and that Anakin fellow. And those bloody midochlorians, that got my blood rushing. But anyways. Star Wars raised the bar for sci-fi and special effects. He tried to do it again in I and II but couldn't pull it off with the CG. But ya, I think that the whole Star Wars universe would probobly be better off altogether though if he tried it in the 80's. But then what happens to the print? The novels have all been superb. Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson along with a host of others have all done commendable jobs on the novels. I don't know, if they ever did a third trilogy, I would like it to be Zahn's heir to the Empire trilogy with Thrawn. He was alwas my favourite enemy ever. But anywho. I'm a little long winded with Star Wars and have pretty well summed up what I think.




"I think that he aimed the movies at a younger audience."

Absolutely....


"Unless he tried to do a total epic all out and out job, I think that it would be destined to never be as good as the original."

True, and he should have realised this... People would have gone to see Eps1, old and new fans alike, without the need for the 'kiddy element'....
It was just too glitzy......

[Constantine]

I was also expecting an entire movie devoted to Darth Vader and the Imperial Forces hunting down Jedis accross the galaxy, with epic one-on-one light-saber duels. I was also hoping that the movies would be a lot darker, more serious and more political. I also wanted to see how the Empire would've controlled/oppressed the territories they gained.

And the Empire only lasting for 19 yrs......I think this is a little too short to gain absolute control over the known galaxy.

The original trilogy is infinitely better IMO.

[Xen]

Yes I agree, Im a much bigger OT fan, I dont readily accept the PT either, thats why I have written my own PT.

Episode I: Too kiddy, though the Darth Maul fight at the end was bad ass and Qui-Gon Jinn is frankly the best Jedi ever, thats the way I always thought a Jedi should be. The name was cool but unappropriate for the film, it should have been called the Child Menace or the Gungan Menace

Episode II: Started off great, the assassination attempt on Amidala, Lucas omitted the scene from the movie where she returns to the Senate and furthers her debate about the Clone Army. If only he had taken out the cheezie romance stuff and made it more like ESB with Han and Leia. The end with the Clonetroopers and the battle of Geonosis was bad ass, so was Yoda using his lightsaber. Dooku brought some darkness back into the films, definatley lacking in The Phantom Menace.

Episode III: I havent read any of the spoilers nor do I care too. I think thats what hurt Episode II for me is I knew everything that was going to happen before it happened. Hopefully its dark, with Anakin going to be Vader, and fighting Obi-Wan, it has alot of promise. Unfortunatley I think Lucas sees dollar signs more than the story plot now days.

[mattep74]

Kenneth Brannagh was certainly touted out and about as a name for a younger Obi-Wan.

I would have thought that the prequels would have made more use of the characters Grand Moff Tarkin, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa etc.

However, once ROTJ was completed, Lucas wanted to have epic battles and the only way to do them successfully was to have CGI, especially with the concept of the clone wars.


Ok to have CGI to make more ships
OK to have CGI to make more troops

NOT OK
to have CGI in every scene
to have CGImade food
JAR JAR

[aktarian]

Why was PM so badlly recieved? Because no matter what they did, people would be disapointed. I mean, wow, new SW movie!!!! Peopel lining on streets, sleeping there to get tickets. They could give them ESB and peopel would be still disapointed. Too much expectations.

Why is PM such as it is, childish? Because things work. There is peace. Senate works, more or less. OK, Naboo is blockaded but comapred to DW blowing up Tatooine.... AotC is darker because cracks are beginning to show. Jedis are loosing power, dark forces are gaining upper hand, there is secession, assasinations.... Episode III is supposed to be even darker as things will be even worse. Anyway, I think PM sucks big time, AotC is good. I'd put it somewhere above TNH and below ESB (which is, IMO, best one).

BTW, anybody else got feeling city scenes were a lot like Blade Runner?

[jgack]

I agree, I was hoping to come away from the whole trilogy depressed, Anakin evil and murdering his fellow Jedi, Amidala dead, the evil Emperor in absolute control of the galaxy with a massive military ready to smash the pitiful rebellion that has been created to try and stop him. I should go awa from the priquel trilogy with no more than a sliver of hope and hen watch the original trilpgy again and watch the completely unrealistic triumph of good over evil. After all, what is Star Wars if not a fairy tale in which the world is simpler and better than ours. That could just be the way I think though

[Flocculencio]

Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson along with a host of others have all done commendable jobs on the novels.

You think so? Kevin J. Anderson is to Star Wars what David Eddings is to fantasy- a talentless hack (although the comparison is probably an insult to Eddings). His plotlines are awful, he maintains next to no internal consistency and has a whole host of other faults. Zahn and Aaron Allston IMHO wrote the best of the EU with Stackpole as a distant second (his plotlines were good but I find his writing style a bit stiff).

[edvader]

I must agree with David Howery on a recent post.AToC had a very good battle at the end beginning with Mace Windu and the Jedi At the end we get to see Yoda do his thing. Too bad JAR-Jar didn't buy the farm. BTW check out THE Force.Net for info on III-big battle. ESB was the Best of the original. Who do you suggest for MARA Jade? :cool: :) :D :p ;)

[zoomar]

The new trilogy (at least in the first two films) just doesn't "feel" like Star Wars. Gone is the silliness and humor of the first three (even "Empire" has some true humour and cute dialog) and everthing has become too self-conscious. Also, the point is well taken that perhaps the special effects are too good (but I don't know anybody could watch them without the battle scenes). In fairness to Lucas, he gave himself and his young actors a task which would be hard to complete to the satisfaction of Star Wars fans. Perhaps it would have been better if the story was told by entirely new characters - with Obi-Wan, Amidala, the robots, and young Darth being only rarely seen. At least from my perspective, one of Lucas's major miscalculations was the notion that he had to "explain" everything. Much of the charm and believability of SW 1,2,and 3 was that they only hinted at the broader universe behind the story. The new movies seem far too pedantic.