Joseph Stalin: US citizen

[DMA]

What if Joseph Stalin's parents somehow managed to find their way to the United States prior to 1878 when young Joseph was born. Consequentially baby Joseph was born on US territory & is an American citizen.

So what does life have install for Joseph Stalin, citizen of the United States?

[Flocculencio]

What if Joseph Stalin's parents somehow managed to find their way to the United States prior to 1878 when young Joseph was born. Consequentially baby Joseph was born on US territory & is an American citizen.

So what does life have install for Joseph Stalin, citizen of the United States?

"In store"

He becomes an ordinary working Joe (if you'll pardon the pun) and dies of a heart attack at the age of fifty four.

[tallwingedgoat]

He studied to be a priest according to his mother's wishes, dropped out and became an anarchist activist. Spent some time in prison. Best known for organizing a wave of violent protests over the Sacco and Vanzetti incident and controversial ties to the mob. Joe Dzhugashvili, or Uncle Joe as his followers called him, disappeared mysteriously in the 1930s. Conspiracy theorists have long debated the possible involvement of the mob or J. Edgar Hoover.

[Keenir]

...and when he reformed himself, he was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize*, and his name was bandied about as a canidate for President - "Joseph Duzuvagaly" as one poster rendered his name.
{some say he was suggested more to prevent Party rifts or to kick the ground out from the opposition}


* = in OTL, a reformed gang leader won the Prize once.

[tallwingedgoat]

Little known fact:

Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster used Joe Dzhugashvili's likeness in the original Superman comics in which the title character was depicted as a super villain in the series "The Reign of the Super Man". The original super villain disguised himself with a fake mustache rather than with spectacles.

Although Superman was reinvented as a super hero, the connection to Joe Dzhugashvili remains evident in the nickname "Man of Steel", one of Dzhugashvili's pen names.

[Sachyriel]

He emmigrates to Mexico to help with the off-shoots of the Spanish civil war, eventually getting large parts of Mexico under semi-communist rule (only the animals can be bought and sold, as they are considered too specialized in each case to be bought and sold using a standardized system).

Spain, coming under Communist control, gives such leanings to north Africa, and through there, South America gets more funding in the Che Guevera years and the US can't round up enough evidence to start up a large Munroe doctrine intervention in any western hemisphere territories.

Communism then gets a start up into Texas in our 'near future'.

[ChucK Y]

In "Alternities" by Michael Kube-McDonell, one character is a descendant of an American Josef Dzhugashvili, with his name Anglicised to Douglas.

[Gladi]

Bright day
Joseph Dzhugashvili, the high school teacher. (AFAIK he taught for a bit OTL)

[Roberto]

He emmigrates to Mexico to help with the off-shoots of the Spanish civil war, eventually getting large parts of Mexico under semi-communist rule (only the animals can be bought and sold, as they are considered too specialized in each case to be bought and sold using a standardized system).

Spain, coming under Communist control, gives such leanings to north Africa, and through there, South America gets more funding in the Che Guevera years and the US can't round up enough evidence to start up a large Munroe doctrine intervention in any western hemisphere territories.

Communism then gets a start up into Texas in our 'near future'.

Damn... so many huge misconceptions, so little time.

[metalstar316]

He becomes the subject of a Harry Turtledove Alternate History story in which his parents stay in Georgia and he goes on to become General Secretary of something called the "communist party," whatever that is.

[Adam]

He becomes a socio-political author who starts off small and then gains fame ala Tom Clancy.

[Blue Max]

Am I the only one who thinks the end is something as trivial as:

In a botched robbery gone wrong, Joe Steel winds up shooting and killing a bank teller, before being badly wounded in an exchange with the FBI. After a quick but decisive trial, Joe Steel spends the rest of his days in Alcatraz--a delusional lunatic with no sense of sympathy. Steel is known by the rest of the inmates as a real nutcase utterly lacking any source of humanity.

I'd suggest another Georgian Screw-Up takes his role in history--Laventi Beria.

[Cromm Crúaich]

Joe Jugash, a bartender at a Chicago speakeasy.

[Olmeka]

Joe Douglas becomes one of the chief American gangsters in the 30s, known as "Bloody Joe" for the massacre of 24 mafia members in March 18 Massacre in which he and his mobsters murdered suspected rivals as well as his former right hand man he suspected of collaborating against him with rivals.
Died in a standoff with FBI in which 3 functionaries were killed as well 5 mafia members besides him.

"Joe's Boys" are a mafia gang existing to this day that upheld the tradition of Joe Dougles, the most dedicated and convicted members often tatoo his face with the characteristic mustache.

[Bishop]

Am I the only one who thinks the end is something as trivial as:

Maybe it's because knowing what he's done and his capabilities, it's hard to imagine him otherwise.

[Douglas]

Father Joseph Vili was known as the "American Rasputin" in the 1920s, when he revealed a list of Republican senators who had frequented whorehouses in various cities throughout the United States (provided by his criminal contacts around the country) to get Al Smith elected president in 1924. Vili's influence increased throughout Smith's administration, until he was effectively dictating economic policy during the beginning of the Great Depression. He is widely believed to have been responsible for the "accidental" deaths and disappearances of high-ranking Republican politicians such as Hoover, Dawes, Curtis, and Borah.

Vili was "accidentally" gunned down by New Orleans police, reputedly at the behest of future President Huey Long on October 20, 1932, just weeks before Al Smith lost the 1932 presidential election to Charles Evans Hughes. His death brought The Sordid Era of American politics to a conclusion.

[sunsurf]

He becomes a Las Vegas casino kingpin. He somewhat resembles Sinatra only without the singing ability or charm. :):rolleyes:

According to wikipedia...

Stalin's first wife, Ekaterina Svanidze, died in 1907, only four years after their marriage. At her funeral, Stalin allegedly said that any warm feelings he had for people died with her, for only she could melt his 'stony heart'. They had a son together, Yakov Dzhugashvili, with whom Stalin did not get along in later years.

So if she had lived...? :eek:

[panzerjay]

i just see stalin working the bludgeoning line in some chicago slaughterhouse

[JMIII]

Stalin joins the Army so he can get money for school, in order to major in politics. During WWI on Oct.15, 1918, Stalin shoots and kills a mustard gas, blinded German runner...

[kojak]

So what does life have install for Joseph Stalin, citizen of the United States?The same as the other multiple million immigrants to the United States: nothing special, nothing too bad--an ordinary life in other words.

The greatest effect we see as a result of this is in Russia and Europe, not in the US; Dzhugashvili isn't going to rise to any position of power in the US.

[sunsurf]

Stalin becomes a casino kingpin in Las Vegas, with mob connections. He's like Sinatra without the singing ability or the charm...:rolleyes::eek:

Wikipedia has an interesting item...

Stalin's first wife, Ekaterina Svanidze, died in 1907, only four years after their marriage. At her funeral, Stalin allegedly said that any warm feelings he had for people died with her, for only she could melt his 'stony heart'. They had a son together, Yakov Dzhugashvili, with whom Stalin did not get along in later years.

What if she had lived much longer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekaterina_Svanidze

Suppose they emigrate to America, at her insistence. He becomes a Las Vegas casino kingpin, with mob connections. Their son, Yakov, becomes a cop who tries to keep his loyalty to his badge and to his father... but the latter becomes increasingly difficult...:):D

[~The Doctor~]

Stalin joins the Army so he can get money for school, in order to major in politics. During WWI on Oct.15, 1918, Stalin shoots and kills a mustard gas, blinded German runner...

This is going to be utterly ASB, so bear with me on this.

Joseph Dzhugashvili, anglicized as Douglas, was born in New York, NY, USA, on December 18, 1878, to a family of poor Georgian immigrants. Joseph's family was able to provide him for all the basic necessities, and, eager for their children to lead a better life than them, attended High School before graduating in 1894.

Joseph, encouraged by his mother, planned to become an Orthodox minister, but his readings of Marx put than plan out to dry. He worked in several factories, working with local Unions, before joining the Army during the Spanish-American war. Young Private First Class Joe Douglas quickly distinguished himself on the battlefield, earning himself the nickname "Man of Steel".

Once the war ended, Joseph, now preferring to be known as Stalin, a Russianized version of Man of Steel, remained in the army. By 1917, just prior to the US's entry into the Great War, he had attained the rank of Staff Sergeant.

Stalin's service during the War was exemplary, and by 1918 had received the Medal of Honor, as well as a battlefield commission to Second Lieutenant. In the closing days of the war, Stalin was credited with shooting a German Corporal by the name of Adolf Hitler. He died in captivity on October 18.

After the war, Stalin left the army and returned to New York, where he became one of the founding members of the Communist Party USA...

Like? Hate?

[Umbral]

Didn't Turtledove write a story called "Joe Steel" about this?

[Gladi]

Am I the only one who thinks the end is something as trivial as:

In a botched robbery gone wrong, Joe Steel winds up shooting and killing a bank teller, before being badly wounded in an exchange with the FBI. After a quick but decisive trial, Joe Steel spends the rest of his days in Alcatraz--a delusional lunatic with no sense of sympathy. Steel is known by the rest of the inmates as a real nutcase utterly lacking any source of humanity.

I'd suggest another Georgian Screw-Up takes his role in history--Laventi Beria.

What the Stalin, who lived in one-room of Kreml palace complex as petty thief? List of Stalins vices is humungous, but greed is not there.

And which Stalin the sociapath? The acclaimed poet? The grieving widower?

It is easy to make Stalin into a sociopath, too easy and not accounting to all things which twisted this man into evil incarnate.

Sunsurf- thanks, I could not remember her name. AFAIK there exists a photograph from her funeral showing grieving Stalin.

[bard32]

He'd be elected President of the United States and immediately impeached.
Speaking of Superman, Siegel and Schuster used Stalin's nickname, "the Man
of Steel," to describe Superman.

[Blue Max]

What the Stalin, who lived in one-room of Kreml palace complex as petty thief? List of Stalins vices is humungous, but greed is not there.

And which Stalin the sociapath? The acclaimed poet? The grieving widower?

It is easy to make Stalin into a sociopath, too easy and not accounting to all things which twisted this man into evil incarnate.

Sunsurf- thanks, I could not remember her name. AFAIK there exists a photograph from her funeral showing grieving Stalin.

LOL. Someone's actually going to defend Stalin. :D

[JMIII]

This is going to be utterly ASB, so bear with me on this.

Joseph Dzhugashvili, anglicized as Douglas, was born in New York, NY, USA, on December 18, 1878, to a family of poor Georgian immigrants. Joseph's family was able to provide him for all the basic necessities, and, eager for their children to lead a better life than them, attended High School before graduating in 1894.

Joseph, encouraged by his mother, planned to become an Orthodox minister, but his readings of Marx put than plan out to dry. He worked in several factories, working with local Unions, before joining the Army during the Spanish-American war. Young Private First Class Joe Douglas quickly distinguished himself on the battlefield, earning himself the nickname "Man of Steel".

Once the war ended, Joseph, now preferring to be known as Stalin, a Russianized version of Man of Steel, remained in the army. By 1917, just prior to the US's entry into the Great War, he had attained the rank of Staff Sergeant.

Stalin's service during the War was exemplary, and by 1918 had received the Medal of Honor, as well as a battlefield commission to Second Lieutenant. In the closing days of the war, Stalin was credited with shooting a German Corporal by the name of Adolf Hitler. He died in captivity on October 18.

After the war, Stalin left the army and returned to New York, where he became one of the founding members of the Communist Party USA...

Like? Hate?

Greatly Like.

[SeanB]

I find it funny how most people have him still being a Communist. I didn't know political ideologies were genetic. :p

[Communist Wizard]

Small quibble- The CPUSA was founded earlier.

[tallwingedgoat]

I find it funny how most people have him still being a Communist. I didn't know political ideologies were genetic. :p

A childhood illness blinds Dzhugashvili, and he finds salvation in the piano. Daddy Dee as he would come to be known, was one of the first White musicians to embrace Jazz. His most memorable hit "Georgia on My Mind" topped the charts and helped mainstream the genre.

[Jaded_Railman]

Do people not understand what a vastly different life he will lead if born over the Atlantic? He's not going to turn out like he did in Russia.

[JMIII]

Do people not understand what a vastly different life he will lead if born over the Atlantic? He's not going to turn out like he did in Russia.

You're right, he could turn out worse!:eek:

[Uber_Amoeba]

Last night I thought about what would happen if both Stalin's parents and Hitler's (that was another WI) emigrated to Brooklyn. Joseph Douglasville becomes something of a big brother to Hitler, going so far as to defend him from one of his father's drunken rages. Eventually Joseph becomes a steelworker, while Hitler becomes a famous Broadway set designer. Joe eventually becomes the head of a major construction company that expands and is successful due to Joe's cutthroat, some would say even ruthless, business tactics. Hitler's visionary designs are practically the base of the American Noir movement.

In 1936, with Stalin's vast wealth and appeal as a 'working joe' and Hitler's political connections and appeal to the intellectual elite, they run together in 1936 on a centrist independent ticket, claiming that they would defend America from the threat posed by the Kerensky/Thalmann/Yat-Sen alliance bloc that cast a shadow over Eurasia.

Take it from there...

[~The Doctor~]

Small quibble- The CPUSA was founded earlier.

Crap. I blame the wiki.

Formation and early history (1919-1921)

The first USA political party to advocate socialism was the Socialist Labor Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Labor_Party), organized as a Marxist organization in 1890. This party still exists today, but some members later moved on to other reformist parties, including the Socialist Party of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America). In January, 1919 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919), Lenin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin) invited the left wing of the Socialist Party of America to join Communist International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comintern) (Comintern). During the spring of 1919 the Left Wing Caucus of the Socialist Party, buoyed by a large influx of new members from countries involved in the Russian Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution_of_1917), prepared to wrest control from the smaller controlling faction of moderate socialists. A referendum to join Comintern passed with 90% support, but the incumbent leadership suppressed the results. Elections for the party's National Executive Committee resulted in 12 leftists being elected out of a total of 15. Calls were made to expel moderates from the party. The moderate incumbents struck back by expelling several state organisations, half a dozen language federations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_federations), and many locals, in all two thirds of the membership.
The Socialist Party then called an emergency convention to be held in Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago) on August 30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_30), 1919 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919). The party's Left Wing Caucus made plans at a June conference of its own to regain control of the party by sending delegations from the sections of the party that had been expelled to the convention to demand that they be seated. However, the language federations, eventually joined by Charles Ruthenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ruthenberg) and Louis Fraina (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Louis_Fraina&action=edit&redlink=1), turned away from that effort and formed their own party, the Communist Party of America, at a separate convention in Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago) on September 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_1), 1919 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919).
Meanwhile plans led by John Reed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Reed_%28journalist%29) and Benjamin Gitlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Gitlow) to crash the Socialist Party convention went ahead. Tipped off, the incumbents called the police, who obligingly expelled the leftists from the hall. The remaining leftist delegates walked out and, meeting with the expelled delegates, formed the Communist Labor Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Labor_Party) on August 30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_30), 1919 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919).
The Comintern was not happy with two Communist Parties and in January, 1920 dispatched an order that the two parties, which consisted of about 12,000 members, merge under the name United Communist Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_Communist_Party&action=edit&redlink=1) and to follow the party line established in Moscow. Part of the Communist Party of America under the leadership of Charles Ruthenberg and Jay Lovestone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Lovestone) did this but a faction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faction_%28communist%29) under the leadership of Nicholas I. Hourwich (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicholas_I._Hourwich&action=edit&redlink=1) and Alexander Bittelman (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexander_Bittelman&action=edit&redlink=1) continued to operate independently as the Communist Party of America. A more strongly worded directive from the Comintern eventually did the trick and the parties were merged in May, 1921. Only five percent[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] of the members of the newly formed party were native English-speakers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglophone). Many of the members came from the ranks of the Industrial Workers of the World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Workers_of_the_World).

[Kriegdämmerung]

Didn't Turtledove write a story called "Joe Steel" about this?

Yeah he did, it was a weird story. For some reason, Trotsky's as bad as Stalin, and the US and the Soviet Union have a useless nuclear war over Japan...

[Ace Venom]

Joseph Douglas grew up in Brooklyn playing baseball as a kid, which eventually led to a professional playing career lasting from 1899-1921 with the Chicago Cubs (originally known as the Chicago Orphans until 1901) from 1899-1910, the Boston Red Sox from 1911-1918 and the New York Yankees in 1919. Being one of the most feared batters at the plate, Douglas accumulated over 3,500 career hits and a .301 career batting average. Along with Shoeless Joe Jackson, Joseph Douglas was counted among Babe Ruth's inspirations as a hitter. Douglas won a total of six World Series during his playing career: 1907 and 1908 with the Cubs and 1912, 1915, 1916 and 1918 with the Red Sox.

Douglas became player-manager of the Red Sox in 1919, a post he kept until 1921. He continued to manage the Red Sox until 1925, when he took the managerial job with the Pittsburgh Pirates starting in the 1926 season. Joseph's team made it to the 1927 World Series, but the Pirates were swept by the Yankees. He was fired by the Pirates after the 1929 and retired from baseball. He later returned to Boston in 1931 as an announcer for the Red Sox. Joseph Douglas was elected into the Hall of Fame in 1937. Joseph Douglas died in 1953.

Joseph Douglas had two sons, George (b. 1904) and Michael (b. 1906). George enjoyed a career in Major League Baseball. George began his career with the New York Giants in 1925, playing his entire career with the team before retiring in 1941. Michael Douglas attended West Point, playing baseball for the military academy from 1924-1928. He was a Captain during World War II.

[Trotsky]

Didn't Turtledove write a story called "Joe Steel" about this?

Yes. Basically Stalin's reign in the Soviet Union only in the United States and with a worse successor (Hoover).

[CanadianGoose]

What if Joseph Stalin's parents somehow managed to find their way to the United States prior to 1878 when young Joseph was born. Consequentially baby Joseph was born on US territory & is an American citizen.? There's very established school of thinking that Vissarion Dzhugashvili wasn't Joseph's father, so (to keep genetics intact) I propose that they immigrated during Ekaterina Dzhugashvili's pregnancy. Joseph had been born in Castle Garden Emigrant Landing Depot.

The same as the other multiple million immigrants to the United States: nothing special, nothing too bad--an ordinary life in other words. Stalin was not an ordinary person. I doubt it highly he will live an ordinary life. And, unless some stray or well-aimed bullet will cut his life short in his youth, he'll be known for something.

Joseph, encouraged by his mother, planned to become an Orthodox minister, but his readings of Marx put than plan out to dry. He worked in several factories, working with local Unions, before joining the Army during the Spanish-American war. Young Private First Class Joe Douglas quickly distinguished himself on the battlefield, earning himself the nickname "Man of Steel".

Once the war ended, Joseph, now preferring to be known as Stalin, a Russianized version of Man of Steel, remained in the army. By 1917, just prior to the US's entry into the Great War, he had attained the rank of Staff Sergeant

....
After the war, Stalin left the army and returned to New York, where he became one of the founding members of the Communist Party USA...

Like? Hate?
Not particularly. 1st, although Stalin was by no means coward, he wasn't googly-eyed hero who liked to risk his life for the fun of it. He could enroll in army, but I don't see him performing one of those selfless acts of bravery heroes are famous for. More likely he will gain well-established reputation among peers as an effective but absolutely ruthless troop commander, who tries to spare his underling's lives if possible but sacrifies them without hesitation if necessary. How about turning him into career officer? It wasn't easy for an emigrant's offspring to enroll into West Point but Joe could be this exception... 2nd, I don't believe young Georgian will use Russophone version of his last nick for a last name. For starters, he wouldn't know Russian (IOTL Stalin learned Russian in his early teens and spoke with distinct accent for the rest of his life). Steelman, may be. Or just Joe Steel. 3rd, making him commie tastes like trying to aling new timeline with OTL. I'm not sure he will become one. It is one of possible outcomes (as is labour organizer, gangster or successfull businessman with little regard for written law). Ordinary person he would not be.

[Gladi]

LOL. Someone's actually going to defend Stalin. :D

How am I defending him?

I am just saying that thinking that Staling was just that and never anything else is pretty stupid.