Bush and Americas Moral Crisis 2007

[DoleScum]

As the Republican platform for the 2004 election was based on moral values and family issues, what would happen if in the next four years things went down a little something like this:
June 2005: Condi Rice is caught in an elaborate press sting, snorting coke from the rim of a public toilet immediately prior to a white house press conference. Forcing her to resign in disgrace.
Dec 2006: Police raid a ‘Christmas Pray Away’ function at TBN headquarters, finding key right-wing religious leaders and minor Republican administrative figures hot-tubbing with underage girls (who later turn out to be illegal immigrants)
Feb 2006: In a TV interview with Martin Basheer Rod Paige admits to having invited children to his ranch and having even shared a bed with some of them. (including McCauley Culkin) Paige refuses to resign claiming he fells ‘totally betrayed’ by the Basheer interview.
Mar: 2006 Paige finally resigns after a police raid at his home reveals seven illegal Philippino ‘house boys’ working there as well as a shrine dedicated to Grace Kelly.
Oct 2006: Rumsfeld is dismissed and then arrested after investigation of his accounts reveals he has been selling arms to Iran and North Korea, reports later emerge that after fleeing the US in disgrace he finds employment in a Parisian vice den.
Mar: 2007: A diplomatic incident ensues as Jacques Chirac publically accuses George Bush of making ‘Lewd and Suggestive comments’ during a White House function. Officially the White House blames the incident on a mis-understanding caused by a poor translator.
Oct 2007: Bush is arrested by police in a public toilet off capitol hill, the police being alerted by a passer by who claimed that Bush regularly frequents such toilets for illicit intercourse with other men.

So given this TL, what would the likely repercussions be?

[Hendryk]

Oct 2006: Rumsfeld is dismissed and then arrested after investigation of his accounts reveals he has been selling arms to Iran and North Korea, reports later emerge that after fleeing the US in disgrace he finds employment in a Parisian vice den.
Those old enough to remember the 1980s will probably recall that the Reagan administration was caught red-handed selling arms to Iran (that was when the Iranian leader was a nice democracy-loving chap named Khomeiny), thus violating its own embargo, and using the profits to finance a violent subversive organization in Nicaragua. And, Oliver North notwithstanding, it got away with it. History would only repeat itself...

[Xen]

It wouldnt matter, Bush would get by with anything thanks to the neo-cons. He could rape a dozen 10 year old girls on live tv and sacrafice them to satan, and the neo-cons will love him. I could hear their defense for him now

Liberal: My God Bush is such a horrible person, he deserves to be placed in prison

Neo-Con: You Soviet lovin', pinko commie terrorist supporting hippy, how dare you commit treason

Liberal: How did I commit treason?

Neo-Con: You insulted Americas God and Savior, our Lord George W. Bush

Liberal: He just killed a dozen 10 year old girls

Neo-Con: They had it coming

Liberal: What?! What could they have done to deserve that?

Neo-Con: They were asking questions about sex at school, other kids dont need to be exposed to that stuff.

Liberal: Unbelievable! So the President kills them for that?

Neo-Con: Yes he is the greatest President in the world, and in our countries long and glorious history. Look what he did after September 11th

Liberal: He just killed a dozen 10 year old girls, sent thousands of soldiers to die needleesly in Iraq, and has destroyed America's economy.

Neo-Con: Yeah well, Bill Clinton had sex.

[DoleScum]

I suppose he could claim it was a pre-emptive molestation, that he was molesting them before they molested him and that he was molesting them because they ‘hate freedom’. Perhaps Tony Blair could come up with evidence that every ten year old was only 45 minutes from molesting George Bush or one of his allies.

[zoomar]

Those old enough to remember the 1980s will probably recall that the Reagan administration was caught red-handed selling arms to Iran (that was when the Iranian leader was a nice democracy-loving chap named Khomeiny), thus violating its own embargo, and using the profits to finance a violent subversive organization in Nicaragua. And, Oliver North notwithstanding, it got away with it. History would only repeat itself...


...no it wouldn't. Regardless of one's interpretation of its legality or wisdom, Iran-Contra stemmed from a legitimate foreign policy disagreement between the Executive Branch and Congress over support for anti-communist rebels in Nicaragua. There were constitutional issues as well regarding the primacy of the Executive or Legislative Branch in the conduct of foreign policy- and expert opinion came down on both sides. To most Americans it was not a scandal as much as it was an opportunity to pick sides and argue about a policy disagreement. The hypothetical situation regarding the Bush Administration is an entirely different situation. Assuming the facts could not be refuted, the administration would be discredited in the eyes of at least 90% of Americans, including the religious right. Bush and co would at minimum lose all political capital but more likely be impeached for the numerous illegal acts committed. Probably, the conservative wing of the Republican Party would also be gravely impacted.

[Arch-Angel]

Do you know how bloody ridiculous and completely impossible this is?!

[zoomar]

Do you know how bloody ridiculous and completely impossible this is?!

Yes, it really does seem to belong with ASBs

[Hendryk]

Regardless of one's interpretation of its legality or wisdom, Iran-Contra stemmed from a legitimate foreign policy disagreement between the Executive Branch and Congress over support for anti-communist rebels in Nicaragua. There were constitutional issues as well regarding the primacy of the Executive or Legislative Branch in the conduct of foreign policy- and expert opinion came down on both sides.
Selling arms to a virulently anti-Western Islamist theocracy that trained and funded various terrorist groups was merely "a legitimate foreign policy disagreement between the Executive Branch and Congress"?
Perhaps 20 years from now the Iraq war will be explained away as a small misunderstanding between the State Department and the Chiefs of Staff... After all, Wolfowitz famously admitted a few months ago that the WMD argument was chosen for "bureaucratic reasons".

[DoleScum]

Do you know how bloody ridiculous and completely impossible this is?!
But is it? granted i doubt you would ever get numerous members of the administration caught up in such scandals, and I’ll admit this was largely post just for a laugh, but i think it does warrant thinking about, the Republicans painted themselves as the defenders of morality, so if they proved that they were not better (or even worse) than Clinton. What would all those conservative voters in the US do?
Personally I think if Bush ‘came out’ it may lead to a lot of repressed rednecks coming out of their respective closets, perhaps a slue of legislation would ensue leading to same sex marriage, legalising intercourse with barnyard animals and the use of drugs.

[MerryPrankster]

Selling arms to a virulently anti-Western Islamist theocracy that trained and funded various terrorist groups was merely "a legitimate foreign policy disagreement between the Executive Branch and Congress"?
Perhaps 20 years from now the Iraq war will be explained away as a small misunderstanding between the State Department and the Chiefs of Staff... After all, Wolfowitz famously admitted a few months ago that the WMD argument was chosen for "bureaucratic reasons".

Well, that theocracy was being slapped around by Iraq, which was a pro-Soviet Arab radical state (which we helped out to b/c it was in our interest). If the war left BOTH parties weakened, in theory Iran couldn't export the clerical revolution and Iraq couldn't undermine the various pro-US Gulf monarchies.

[MerryPrankster]

If this improbable scenario occurred, the Republican Party would essentially cease to exist for one or more electoral cycles.

Perhaps the Libertarians will take over for the GOP on the political Right? :)

[Diamond]

I really thought the days of people posting stupid shit like this as an excuse to start flame wars was over, but apparently not... :rolleyes:

[George Carty]

It wouldnt matter, Bush would get by with anything thanks to the neo-cons. He could rape a dozen 10 year old girls on live tv and sacrafice them to satan, and the neo-cons will love him. I could hear their defense for him now

Liberal: My God Bush is such a horrible person, he deserves to be placed in prison

Neo-Con: You Soviet lovin', pinko commie terrorist supporting hippy, how dare you commit treason!


NOOOO!!!! That's a John Bircher! I think you mean:

Neo-Con: You Jew hatin', Dhimmicrat nazi terrorist supporting hippy, how dare you commit treason!

Such is their fear of Islam, I wonder if some neocons now wish we'd just let the Soviets keep Afghanistan. Anyway, I think this thread should be moved to Chat...

[zoomar]

Well, that theocracy was being slapped around by Iraq, which was a pro-Soviet Arab radical state (which we helped out to b/c it was in our interest). If the war left BOTH parties weakened, in theory Iran couldn't export the clerical revolution and Iraq couldn't undermine the various pro-US Gulf monarchies.


Well put. Besides the focus was on finding a way to support the contras since Congress in its overreaching wisdom elected to intrude on the Executives prerogative to conduct foreign policy.

[zoomar]

Selling arms to a virulently anti-Western Islamist theocracy that trained and funded various terrorist groups was merely "a legitimate foreign policy disagreement between the Executive Branch and Congress"?
Perhaps 20 years from now the Iraq war will be explained away as a small misunderstanding between the State Department and the Chiefs of Staff... After all, Wolfowitz famously admitted a few months ago that the WMD argument was chosen for "bureaucratic reasons".


Actually, there is a fair amount of similarity between the Iraq War and Iran Contra. Both are legitimate foreign policy issues. I happen to think Reagan was basically correct andthat GW Bush is entirely wrong, but neither are impeachable "scandals" in my book

[LordKalvan]

As the Republican platform for the 2004 election was based on moral values and family issues, what would happen if in the next four years things went down a little something like this:
June 2005: Condi Rice is caught in an elaborate press sting, snorting coke from the rim of a public toilet immediately prior to a white house press conference. Forcing her to resign in disgrace.
Dec 2006: Police raid a ‘Christmas Pray Away’ function at TBN headquarters, finding key right-wing religious leaders and minor Republican administrative figures hot-tubbing with underage girls (who later turn out to be illegal immigrants)
Feb 2006: In a TV interview with Martin Basheer Rod Paige admits to having invited children to his ranch and having even shared a bed with some of them. (including McCauley Culkin) Paige refuses to resign claiming he fells ‘totally betrayed’ by the Basheer interview.
Mar: 2006 Paige finally resigns after a police raid at his home reveals seven illegal Philippino ‘house boys’ working there as well as a shrine dedicated to Grace Kelly.
Oct 2006: Rumsfeld is dismissed and then arrested after investigation of his accounts reveals he has been selling arms to Iran and North Korea, reports later emerge that after fleeing the US in disgrace he finds employment in a Parisian vice den.
Mar: 2007: A diplomatic incident ensues as Jacques Chirac publically accuses George Bush of making ‘Lewd and Suggestive comments’ during a White House function. Officially the White House blames the incident on a mis-understanding caused by a poor translator.
Oct 2007: Bush is arrested by police in a public toilet off capitol hill, the police being alerted by a passer by who claimed that Bush regularly frequents such toilets for illicit intercourse with other men.

So given this TL, what would the likely repercussions be?
The Rumsfeld scandal would not surprise me a bit if I found it on the first page of the newspaper.
I find hard to believe that police might raid a "Xmas Pray Away", not the fact that key right-wing religious leaders and minor Republican administrative figures might be hot-tubbing (or much worse) with underage girls. And in any case it would take a lot of moral courage on the side of the newspaper to give it adequate coverage.

I'll give you another one which woul not surprise me a bit: an old flame of GWB reveals: in 1979 I got pregnant from him, but I was forced to go to mexico and terminate my pregnancy.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

...no it wouldn't. Regardless of one's interpretation of its legality or wisdom, Iran-Contra stemmed from a legitimate foreign policy disagreement between the Executive Branch and Congress over support for anti-communist rebels in Nicaragua. There were constitutional issues as well regarding the primacy of the Executive or Legislative Branch in the conduct of foreign policy- and expert opinion came down on both sides. To most Americans it was not a scandal as much as it was an opportunity to pick sides and argue about a policy disagreement. The hypothetical situation regarding the Bush Administration is an entirely different situation. Assuming the facts could not be refuted, the administration would be discredited in the eyes of at least 90% of Americans, including the religious right. Bush and co would at minimum lose all political capital but more likely be impeached for the numerous illegal acts committed. Probably, the conservative wing of the Republican Party would also be gravely impacted.

Gulp?!? Disagreeing over supporting the Contras is one thing; selling arms to IRAN is quite another, not to mention financing the Contras through drug dealing.

[NapoleonXIV]

Nothing whatsoever happens, as the "liberal" media would not report any of it, probably reserving the front page for an editorial attacking the first gay divorce in Canada. And in the second case Bush would arrest the little girls posthumously as a child porno ring and be praised by Falwell et al as the 'saviour of our youth'.