Prop-driven combat planes post-VW

[Melvin Loh]

How could the US armed forces have retained post-VW prop-driven combat aircraft along the lines of the A1 Skyraider, OV10 Bronco and A37 Dragonfly, on a large scale, in addition to the USAF's fixed-wing gunships convered from cargo planes ? Other US allies retained these prop-driven planes from the VW period, such as Indonesia using OV10s in COIN ops over East Timor, central American countries employing OV10s and A37s in the same role, and of course th 1969 El Salvador-Honduras 'Football War' where the opposing airforces flew P51 Mustangs and F4U Corsairs against each other, but how could the US itself have cont'd to retain and employ these old-fashioned warbirds ?

[wkwillis]

How could the US armed forces have retained post-VW prop-driven combat aircraft along the lines of the A1 Skyraider, OV10 Bronco and A37 Dragonfly, on a large scale, in addition to the USAF's fixed-wing gunships convered from cargo planes ? Other US allies retained these prop-driven planes from the VW period, such as Indonesia using OV10s in COIN ops over East Timor, central American countries employing OV10s and A37s in the same role, and of course th 1969 El Salvador-Honduras 'Football War' where the opposing airforces flew P51 Mustangs and F4U Corsairs against each other, but how could the US itself have cont'd to retain and employ these old-fashioned warbirds ?
The development of high temperature 'superalloys' made jet engines more powerfull pound for pound. They can fly at higher altitudes where drag is lower and fuel efficiency is higher. So they can fly faster, higher, and farther. That's a hard combination to beat.
Turboprops are more efficient at lower speeds. They are noisier to the people inside the plane and they can fly at lower altitudes. A turbofan is a ducted turboprop. Airliners fly lower than jet fighters and bombers because a modern jet airliner is a turbofan.
The only way the US would fly with propeller aircraft is if we went with modern RPV weapons and needed something to mix it up with them for airdefence. Like some WWI biplanes to attack them on the way to attack us. Air defense reasons.

[aktarian]

A-1 and it's ilk are ideal for COIN. You have control of the skies and enemy AD is weak. For conventional war they are useless. Too volnerable. And even COIN has become harder with proliferation of MANPADS. So airforces took this concept and made it less vulnerable and able to carry more. Enter A-10 and Su-25. Which are similar to A-1. They are slow so they can follow terrain better (enter canyons to hit targets in them-something fast jets can't). But due to better engines they are able to carry more. More weapons, more fuel and most importantly more armor for protection.

Why keep prop a/c when you can make similar jet? Which keeps it's advantages and adds some more.

Besides, you have AC-130. Which is prop. ;) And Russia has Tu-95/-142. which is prop as well. ;) And countries still use Tu-16. Another prop. ;)

[Torqumada]

Well, if there was a greater push from pusher prop planes than puller planes, you might have more prop driven combat planes today. There have been some experiments in the recent past (say 80's) with pusher prop planes that had a very curved prop that could attain high speed, due to less drag than a puller prop would. However, the main disadavantage to prop driven planes, is that the engine that drives such plaens require very high octane and pure fuel. Jet engines can survive just using something as simple as kerosene.

Torqumada

[Hendryk]

As the Bronco and the Skyraider show, prop-driven airplanes can be quite efficient in counterinsurgency operations; but, as aktarian says, they are pretty much useless to fight a conventional war. So in order to have such planes used beyond the VW period, what you need is a geopolitical context in which the main concern of the military isn't conventional war but guerrilla war. Find a way to preempt the Cold War, and you'll have a world in which those conflicts that do take place are of the guerrilla type, and in which high-speed, high-altitude aircraft isn't very useful except for recon and carpet bombing, since most of the fighting will be done within shooting distance of the ground. Planes will have to be slow, well-armored, with a long loitering capability.

[jclark]

I agree with Hendryk that one way would be if there were widespread anti-guerrilla ops. Another would be a war against some country with a lot of manpower and not a lot of technical, modern weaponry. If someone were sending human wave style attacks against you without armor or air cover and you lacked the manpower to face them head to head on the ground, use some heavy turboprop that dropped bombs, napalm, and smaller projectiles. I suspect it would be more cost effective than using jet powered aircraft and would provide certain operational benefits such as slower movement allows you to hang over an area longer.

Suppose you have a POD that creates a China with roughly 2 billion people and less technology. As their resources get stretched, they may attempt an invasion of nearby countries (India, former Soviet republics, SE Asia). As most of these countries (except India) will be outnumbered 20:1, they will need to take out waves of people. My guess is, if they have turboprops and the capacity to arm them, they will.

[Johnestauffer]

During Vietnam the prop driven A-1's made excellent escorts for helicopters conducting search & rescue operations over hostile territory. They could fly at the same low speeds, had good on-station time, and could carry substantial payloads of weapons.
There are times when 'low & slow' is good.
The new generation of armed helicopters is a partial replacement for the A-1 type of aircraft. But helos still have the glide characteristics of a rock, while a prop a/c can take damage and still clear the battlefield.
Look at the most recent generations of the AC-130. It is literally a flying tank. It carries 1 - 105mm howitzer, and a combination of 40mm Bofors, 20mm & 7.62mm gatling guns. This is firepower that few if any jet a/c can match. And it's performance allows it to operate at speeds where the firepower can be highly accurate.