Preview Aliiance the Turning Tide

[MR UNSEEN]

1933-THE SUCCESSFUL ASSASSINATION OF ROOSEVELT.
1936-WILLIAM TAFT ELECTED PRESIDENT, THE GRAND PLAN IS ISSUED.
1939-WW2 BEGINS.
1940-BRITAIN IS OVERPOWERED AND COLLAPSES.
1941-HITLER FINALIZES AN ALLIANCE WITH THE SOVIET UNION. JAPAN AND THE REST OF ASIA ARE FEARFUL OF THIS. THE US DEPLOYS MORE TROOPS TO THE PHILIPPINES AND ASK FOR JAPANESE ASSISTANCE.
SOON TO COME: ADDITIONAL HISTORIC BACKGROUND AND MAIN STORY, LOOK OUT FOR IT IN MEDIAMINER.ORG AND POSSIBLY FANFICTION.NET. MOD FOR CNC ZERO HOUR IN PROGRESS TOO, OPINIONS PLEASE.

[Riain]

Why would Britain be overpowered and collapse in this TL? Does the Spitfire/Hurricane/Radar not get developed?

[MR UNSEEN]

The lack of Roosevelt prevents the british from getting badly needed supplies from america, and I guess I should have mentioned this but england got invaded (england refers to all britain in my context, something i remember from a previous post, ps Riain are you online now, I'de love to discuss this up coming fan fiction with someone.

[Sir John A.]

1941-HITLER FINALIZES AN ALLIANCE WITH THE SOVIET UNION. JAPAN AND THE REST OF ASIA ARE FEARFUL OF THIS. THE US DEPLOYS MORE TROOPS TO THE PHILIPPINES AND ASK FOR JAPANESE ASSISTANCE.




I don't get this. Please elaborate.

[MR UNSEEN]

I can see now reason why Hitler would invade the Ussr if britain fall, plus I only though of this time and time again but here's a simpler way, Stalin really wanted to be friends with hitler and so did he (atleast in my story)

[Sir John A.]

I can see now reason why Hitler would invade the Ussr if britain fall, plus I only though of this time and time again but here's a simpler way, Stalin really wanted to be friends with hitler and so did he (atleast in my story)

The whole point of Nazism was to invade Russia and gain lebenasraum for the German people and neither Stalin nor Hitler wanted to be friends with each other, they just signed the Nonaggression Pact to buy off time, after which one would invade the other. And even if Stalin wanted to be "friends" with Hitler, this feeling could never be mutual. Hitler hated the USSR and communism to the bone.

[MR UNSEEN]

I'm getting confused but I'll try to answer as much as I can, 1st the nonagression pact evolved into an alliance, also, I can only be here for another hour then I have to go, sorry guys my lil brother wants to play too.

[Michele]

The lack of Roosevelt prevents the british from getting badly needed supplies from america,

There were no "badly needed supplies from America" that prevented a British collapse in 1940.

[MR UNSEEN]

No kidding?

[Michele]

I can see now reason why Hitler would invade the Ussr if britain fall, plus I only though of this time and time again but here's a simpler way, Stalin really wanted to be friends with hitler and so did he (atleast in my story)

Then he's not Hitler, sorry. Find a replacement if you want this to hold water.

[Michele]

No kidding?

Speaking with me? List the "badly needed supplies" _delivered in 1940_ that prevented a British "collapse".

[MR UNSEEN]

Well I'm actually using my imagination for this story, I should have mensioned this earlier but the story will be set in the post ww2 world. the inspiration for this lies in not Turtledove but WAR FRONT TURNING POINT, PAOLO PARENTE'S DUST AND 2009 LOST MEMORIES, Would you like me to explain some more or just write the next plotline of backgrounds.

[Riain]

What America supplied to Britian that really helped was something that few know about, 100 octane aviation fuel. This meant that the Merlins could make another 300 horsepower. BUT the Brits wouldn't have fallen without this fuel. The US supplied very little to Britain which helped it through the danger period of August-October 1940.

[MR UNSEEN]

Okay, but i'm good in making stuff but what do you want me to say then

[MR UNSEEN]

I dont have much time left so I'll to rap it up and get back to, also I think your miss inturperating as in a bad anti-social mood, sorry about if think that, I'm quite friendly but getting confused.

[kellineil]

this is ASB

[MR UNSEEN]

Few, I'm back but only for a while, does anyone have anymore questions.

[MR UNSEEN]

My mistake:
1936-ROBERT TAFT IS ELECTED PRESIDENT.

[MR UNSEEN]

ADDITIONAL BACKGROUND
1943-THE USA, JAPAN, AND THE NEW CHINESE REPUBLIC ALONG WITH OTHERS FORM THE TRANS-PACIFIC DEFENSE ALLIANCE. THE SOVIET-AXIS COALITION IS FORMED TO COUNTER THIS.
1944-THE ALLIES AND COALITION ALMOST COME TO BLOWS BUT NOTHING TOO SERIOUS. OFFICIALLY WW2 HAS ENDED BUT A DARKENING RIVALRY BETWEEN THE 2 PACTS LEADS TO THE COLD WAR.
1946-THE US DEVELOPS THE ATOM BOMB. ADOLF HITLER IS ASSASSINATED BY THE GERMAN RESISTANCE IN A FAILED COUP. HERMAN GOERING AND HEINRICH HIMMLER COMPETE FOR THE CHANCELLORSHIP. THE SOVIETS DEVELOP THEIR ATOM BOMBS BY THE CLOSING OF THE YEAR.
1947-HIMMLER BECOMES CHANCELLOR. TECHNOLOGY RAPIDLY ADVANCES AT A HIGH RATE.
1961-THE ARGENTINIAN MISSILE CRISIS BECOMES WW3. NUCLEAR EXCHANGE IS LIMITED BUT EFFECTIVE. A BATTLE FOR THE DOMINANCE OF THE WORLD BEGINS.

[David S Poepoe]

Since you've got enough holes in your ATL for it to be swiss cheese maybe you should just post things once you really think things thru. And unlock for cap control on your keyboard please.

[Atreus]

I see what you may be trying to do, but you need to rethink some things more.

[SIZE=3]1933-THE SUCCESSFUL ASSASSINATION OF ROOSEVELT.

Interesting POD, if not the most unique.


1936-WILLIAM TAFT ELECTED PRESIDENT, THE GRAND PLAN IS ISSUED.

I can see how this would happen. Assuming Garner goes for the Presidency, the Republicans would have a good shot at the White House. However there is one gapping flaw in this segment, that being that William Taft died 6 years before the election you have him winning. Now, I realize American politics sometimes have a feeling of absurdity, but I somehow t=doubt that a deceased man can win the presidency. You probably mean his son, Robert. However, robert Taft only entered the Senate in 1938, and held no national office before that (and had not held office since 1932, when he lost his seat in the Ohio state Senate). Just double check your sources.


1939-WW2 BEGINS.

I can see this happening. The death of Roosevelt and his replacement by Garner/Taft will have little effect on European politics.


1940-BRITAIN IS OVERPOWERED AND COLLAPSES.

Okay, now I'm lost. As stated above, the european war is going to go roughly according to OTL for a while, because no changes have been made which are directly shaping Europe. So how on earth do the Nazi's bring about a sealion or equivalent thereof which they did not have a prayer of pulling off in the first place? A major divergence in the Nazi heirarchy will be needed to change that fact. I believe Alison brooks summed this up best here (http://web.archive.org/web/20070504034219/www.flin.demon.co.uk/althist/seal1.htm), although Ian also has a good paper (http://web.archive.org/web/20070504051527/gateway.alternatehistory.com/essays/Sealion.html) on the subject. now, there is the possibility of hallifax coming to power, but given the POD, I don't see why that happens. And anyways, that hardly qualifies as being overwhelmed. Finally, Lend-Lease did not begin until 1941. So missing American aid is not going to make a difference.
1941-HITLER FINALIZES AN ALLIANCE WITH THE SOVIET UNION. JAPAN AND THE REST OF ASIA ARE FEARFUL OF THIS. THE US DEPLOYS MORE TROOPS TO THE PHILIPPINES AND ASK FOR JAPANESE ASSISTANCE.

Fially, it is only a matter of time before the Soviets and Nazis turn on each other. Hitler's entire policies are bilt around defeating the Russians for a variety of reasons (leberensraum, hatred of communism, etc...), and Stalin is a paranoid power-hungry dictator who recognizes Hitler is his worst enemy in the short term. Asia is not going to be worried by this, the only effected power (Japan) takes advantage of the distraction of the rest of the world to solidify it's gains in CHina (and possibly southeast asia, with the british collapse), and to contemplating striking North when the inevitable war comes. The US is pulling out of the Phillipenes on or ahead of the OTL schedule, and the Japanese may be planning a Pearl Harbour type strike. And working on the assumption that the US is bulking up in the far east, why ask the Japanese, the people they are fortifying against, for help?

[CalBear]

1933-THE SUCCESSFUL ASSASSINATION OF ROOSEVELT.
1936-WILLIAM TAFT ELECTED PRESIDENT, THE GRAND PLAN IS ISSUED.
1939-WW2 BEGINS.
1940-BRITAIN IS OVERPOWERED AND COLLAPSES.
1941-HITLER FINALIZES AN ALLIANCE WITH THE SOVIET UNION. JAPAN AND THE REST OF ASIA ARE FEARFUL OF THIS. THE US DEPLOYS MORE TROOPS TO THE PHILIPPINES AND ASK FOR JAPANESE ASSISTANCE.
SOON TO COME: ADDITIONAL HISTORIC BACKGROUND AND MAIN STORY, LOOK OUT FOR IT IN MEDIAMINER.ORG AND POSSIBLY FANFICTION.NET. MOD FOR CNC ZERO HOUR IN PROGRESS TOO, OPINIONS PLEASE.



Who overpowers Britain? Surely not Hitler. You can't possibily be implying the marine mammal? :eek::eek::eek::eek:


Hitler forming an alliance with the Communist USSR is out of the question. A non-agression pact is one thing, but actually making common cause with STALIN???? Even his loyal subordinates would have taken a step back at that.

Same goes for Japan & the U.S., unless somehow (and it would be damned near ASB) Japan never goes after China. Japan would actually have to never develop into a military dictatorship to make this possible. Zero probability.

Good luck with your stories, but...

[MR UNSEEN]

Okay so what everyones telling me is that this scenario that I made is to far fetch, but how about some of Turtledove's books like IN THE PRESENCE OF MINE ENEMIES, that was far fetch too, right, and lets not forget JOE STEELE.

[CalBear]

Okay so what everyones telling me is that this scenario that I made is to far fetch, but how about some of Turtledove's books like IN THE PRESENCE OF MINE ENEMIES, that was far fetch too, right, and lets not forget JOE STEELE.

Turtledove has published a couple dozen books, some of them quite respected Alt History, some of them utter crap. He has built enough of a fan base that even his crap sells.

Unless you have a major following waiting for your next work, I'd suggest emulating the good stuff.

[MR UNSEEN]

Turtledove has published a couple dozen books, some of them quite respected Alt History, some of them utter crap. He has built enough of a fan base that even his crap sells.

Unless you have a major following waiting for your next work, I'd suggest emulating the good stuff.
Okay, what do you want me to do and say.

[CalBear]

Okay, what do you want me to do and say.

I don't want you to DO anything.

I would suggest that if you don't want feedback, it might be wise not ask for it.

[Adam]

Okay, what do you want me to do and say.

I suggest you broaden your horizons on stuff other than AH. Non-fiction historicals, especially those on the famous wars of the 20th Century, would be a nice start.

[alt_historian]

Okay so what everyones telling me is that this scenario that I made is to far fetch, but how about some of Turtledove's books like IN THE PRESENCE OF MINE ENEMIES, that was far fetch too, right, and lets not forget JOE STEELE.

Not having read In the Presence..., I can't comment on that, although I do know the basic premise. The short story Joe Steele was, I consider, a commentary on the way that many Americans think of their country and political system: evil men may come to power overseas, but that could never happen in the Land of the Free!
However, what was being illustrated in Joe Steele is that, given the right circumstances, a radical dictatorship can emerge pretty much anywhere. I do think he took the parallels with OTL Stalin a little far.

Anyway, I think the problem here is that you are starting off with the point you want to get to (USSR and Axis allied, US and Japan allied), then working backwards from there to try and get there. A better and more logical way to go about it would be to start with the POD (Point of Departure), in this case the assassination of FD, and try to work forards logically from there. Obviously, if you hav certain events in mind, then you should try to include them. But the critical thing is that they should follow logically from what has happened already, rather than just seeming to happen randomly or 'just because that's what happens' (which is how it seems at the moment).

Just my thoughts. I don't want to discourage you entirely... :)