Proposal: First True Alternate History game.

[Oweno]

We each choose nations from 1861 and play out there politics. Change World history. Each Page would be a month. If a nation is not played by someone and you want to conquer it you would PM me as the moderator and i would say if it sounds good. Need 10 Players

[Communist Wizard]

We each choose nations from 1861 and play out there politics. Change World history. Each Page would be a month. If a nation is not played by someone and you want to conquer it you would PM me as the moderator and i would say if it sounds good. Need 10 Players
...
A) There is another 1861 game going on.
B) If this is an AH, not a game, then it goes in the sub-forum? Collaborative Projects.
C) Already done. http://entertainmentcentralonline.com/index.php?showtopic=400&view=getnewpost

[Oweno]

...
A) There is another 1861 game going on.
B) If this is an AH, not a game, then it goes in the sub-forum?
C) Already done.

a. I know that but Agentdark says that that will be not the same thing. I want complete control over a Nation not just tech.

b. Sub-forum? Also it is a Game but it is also Alternate History

c. WHAAAA?

[HUCK]

Confederate States of America
(please)

[Communist Wizard]

a. I know that but Agentdark says that that will be not the same thing. I want complete control over a Nation not just tech.

b. Sub-forum? Also it is a Game but it is also Alternate History

c. WHAAAA?
A- MW/ME = Playing as a nation with any POD, and being ISOTed with other nations into OTL.
B-OK.
C- Link provided.

[Oweno]

A- MW/ME = Playing as a nation with any POD, and being ISOTed with other nations into OTL.
B-OK.
C- Link provided.

C I know about that Im in that Frikking Game. I mean every Nation that existed in 1861. Ok? No fake countries.

[Oweno]

Confederate States of America
(please)

Fine. I call the German Federation.

[Communist Wizard]

C I know about that Im in that Frikking Game. I mean every Nation that existed in 1861. Ok? No fake countries.
It had no fake countries... You had to choose an existing country. And if you are in it, why not just play instead of copying it here?
The German Federation was not a country. Unless you mean Prussia. In 1861, that is.

[Demosthenes]

If this goes forward, for my 1861 country, I would like to claim the British Empire.

[Oweno]

It had no fake countries... You had to choose an existing country. And if you are in it, why not just play instead of copying it here?
The German Federation was not a country. Unless you mean Prussia. In 1861, that is.

German Federation was a country check Wiki.

[Rocano]

I will Choose the United States of America. Also Demo by Britain you mean the Great Britain and its Colonies right?

Also German Federation Contained

1.Austria

2.Bohemia

3.Luxembourg

4.Prussia

5.Bavaria

6.Saxony

7. Hanover

8.Wurttemberg

[Communist Wizard]

I will Choose the United States of America. Also Demo by Britain you mean the Great Britain and its Colonies right?

Also German Federation Contained

1.Austria

2.Bohemia

3.Luxembourg

4.Prussia

5.Bavaria

6.Saxony

7. Hanover

8.Wurttemberg
It was an idea in 1848 or so, but it never came into being. That is what I'm saying.

[HUCK]

I will Choose the United States of America.

Does this mean I am at war with you?

[Demosthenes]

I will Choose the United States of America. Also Demo by Britain you mean the Great Britain and its Colonies right?


Yes, the British empire at the time of 1861, with all the nations it controlled at that time. (I would of chosen the US union but dont want to be in war immediately at the beginning of the game):cool:

[HUCK]

Yes, the British empire at the time of 1861, with all the nations it controlled at that time. (I would of chosen the US union but dont want to be in war immediately at the beginning of the game):cool:

So I guess you don't want to be allies.

[Communist Wizard]

But I guess, I could take Russia. Hmm? Maybe, probably, my heart says "yes another game"....yes.

[Demosthenes]

So I guess you don't want to be allies.

I'll consider it. I learned from NING to take things slowly so you don't regret certain alliances or wars.

[HUCK]

I'll consider it.

Okay, *begins humming Dixie*

[Oweno]

Well if not the German Federation, than the Brazilian Empire.

[HUCK]

How many do we have so far?

[Uber_Amoeba]

If nobody else wants to I might play the Ottoman Empire- can anyone say 'Meiji'?:cool:

[HUCK]

CSA is open to allies! Together we will carve up the Union like a Thanksgiving turkey!

[Uber_Amoeba]

The Ottoman Empire will be an ally to any nation who will help fund our railroads and modernize our armies.

[Demosthenes]

The Ottoman Empire will be an ally to any nation who will help fund our railroads and modernize our armies.

Then the British Empire will be your ally.

[Agentdark]

moved to collaberative games

[Uber_Amoeba]

Then the British Empire will be your ally.

Wonderful! We are embarking on a campaign of liberalization, modernization, and industrialization, and would be honoured to accept British help. In return, you have the guarantee of our alliance.

[Demosthenes]

How many people do we have?

[Oweno]

So far

Oweno-Brazilian Empire

HUCK-CSA

Rocano-USA

Demosthenes-British Empire

Uber Amoeba-Ottoman Empire

CommunistWizard- Might be Russia

And Brazil will side with the Confederate States in this Conflict and will recognize them.

[HUCK]

And Brazil will side with the Confederate States in this Conflict and will recognize them.

Long live Dixie!!!

[Demosthenes]

Long live Dixie!!!

When we have enough people, someone should make the map, and we will make a newer thread for the actual gameplay.

[Rocano]

Umm there is a really good map on wikipedia its on the page about the CSA. The map with the CSA on it when double clicked is a very good map.

[Oweno]

no longer. they changed the map. although you could use the map at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Timeline-191_WWI.png

it is for Timeline 191 but it is a damn good map. If someone could edit it to show the csa without kentucky, the baja , cuba and the staes of sonora and chihuahua

[Fenwick]

I'll take Mexico, but I'm not paying anybody back! :D

Oh and here is a good CSA map.

[Oweno]

I'll take Mexico, but I'm not paying anybody back! :D

Oh and here is a good CSA map.

Yes but we need a map for the world of the CSA. And you can be Mexico

[Oweno]

we need 5 more and a map. Someone advertise.

[Demosthenes]

I'll take Mexico, but I'm not paying anybody back! :D

Oh and here is a good CSA map.

Uh, noting that West Virgina secced from Virginia to join the union if Im not mistaken.

[Uber_Amoeba]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/Uber_amoeba/1861OTL.png

Shamelessly taken from the OTL maps thread. A legend of players and colour for Brazil wouldn't be a bad idea.

Also, what exactly was the status of Egypt in 1862. I tried to figure it out, but nineteenth-century Ottoman politics are jarring, to say the wrong word.

[Oweno]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/Uber_amoeba/1861OTL.png

Shamelessly taken from the OTL maps thread. A legend of players and colour for Brzail wouldn't be a bad idea.

If this is correct than i accept the map. we only need 5 players people ! Get on it get your freinds involved.

[Demosthenes]

If this is correct than i accept the map. we only need 5 players people ! Get on it get your freinds involved.

We should try to get a few more than just 5.

[Oweno]

We should try to get a few more than just 5.

Fine but 10 is the minimum for total layers to start

[Atreus]

I'll play as the Second French Empire.

[Oweno]

I'll play as the Second French Empire.

Fine than.

We still need 4 More Players till the Game can Start

[Uber_Amoeba]

If we just get Prussia and Austria-Hungary we'll have all the major powers of the era (plus the CSA of course) as players- that's enough to get the game going even without the conventional 12 players.

[Oweno]

still need 4 more

[HUCK]

:confused:Should we just start now?

[Uber_Amoeba]

I think so. Other people will join once they see the ball get rolling, I imagine.

Besides, what else should we do when our gm is kicked?

[HUCK]

I think so. Other people will join once they see the ball get rolling, I imagine.

Besides, what else should we do when our gm is kicked?

Okey-Dokey

lets check sides so far

CSA,Brazil, maybe Britain
vs.
USA

[Atreus]

France offer's its help to the Ottoman empire in modernizing, in exchange for an alliance.

[Krall]

I would like to be the Kingdom of the Netherlands and her colonies.

And as such, we would like to aid closer relations between ourselves and our brothers, the British.

[HUCK]

I would like to be the Kingdom of the Netherlands and her colonies.

And as such, we would like to aid closer relations between ourselves and our brothers, the British.

Wouldn't an alliance be beneficial to us both?

[Krall]

OoC/ You're the CSA, right? /OoC

The Netherlands does not wish to get involved in a conflict that does not affect us.

[HUCK]

OoC/ You're the CSA, right? /OoC

The Netherlands does not wish to get involved in a conflict that does not affect us.

Pity, can't blame a guy for tryin. But if Britain enters the war you could better your relations with them.

[Krall]

It is possible that we would aid you in future, but for the moment we will not go out of our way to aid your war.

[Uber_Amoeba]

France offer's its help to the Ottoman empire in modernizing, in exchange for an alliance.

The Ottoman Empire gratefully accepts.

With the support of both France and Great Britain, the Ottoman Empire has begun to lay down its first railroad, connecting Istanbul with Baghdad. It is not expected to be completed for some time.

Further, we have begun re-structuring our legal code, towards the possibilty of creating a constitution for the Empire in the next decade.

[Fenwick]

If the CSA, or USA wishes to pay off the debts Mexico has to Europe we are willing to send our forces at an enemy of your choice. :D

[HUCK]

If the CSA, or USA wishes to pay off the debts Mexico has to Europe we are willing to send our forces at an enemy of your choice. :D

I'm willing.

[HUCK]

I'm happy to report that Mexico will be supporting the Confederate States of America in this War of Southern Independance.

[Fenwick]

I'm happy to report that Mexico will be supporting the Confederate States of America in this War of Southern Independance.

Ahem. Mexico is more then willing to assist other in the cause for independence, but only after we have been paid. We are of no use to anyone without paying off our debts, and keeping our social reforms intact.

[Shurik]

If somebody mentioned a need for Austria-Hungary, I'd be up for joining this game. Or, I'd take Russia if Communist Wizard hasn't made his claim official.

[HUCK]

Ahem. Mexico is more then willing to assist other in the cause for independence, but only after we have been paid. We are of no use to anyone without paying off our debts, and keeping our social reforms intact.

They should be in your hands by the end of the month. (i.e. end of the page)

[Uber_Amoeba]

The newest draft of the Constitution of the Ottoman Empire encourages entrepreneurial spirit in the country, and, while Islam is still the State religion, makes all ethnicities and faiths equal under the law. Furthermore, the possibility of some sort of Senate or Parliament is under review, possibly under the Prussian model.

[Atreus]

Ahem. Mexico is more then willing to assist other in the cause for independence, but only after we have been paid. We are of no use to anyone without paying off our debts, and keeping our social reforms intact.

Which reminds us, can we have a garuntee that Mexico can pay it's bills?

[HUCK]

Which reminds us, can we have a garuntee that Mexico can pay it's bills?

I can garuntee that. They have what they owe you in cotton.

[Communist Wizard]

OOC:
Hmm, Oweno is kicked. Isn't this still a proposal page?
Yes, I still want Russia.

[Atreus]

I can garuntee that. They have what they owe you in cotton.

I believe the Empire was requesting an answer from Mexico. In any case, the American south is not exactly in a position to be supporting other nations at will.

[HUCK]

I believe the Empire was requesting an answer from Mexico. In any case, the American south is not exactly in a position to be supporting other nations at will.

I support them so they will support me. Freedom isn't free.

[Shurik]

As Communist Wizard has fully claimed Russia, I'll take Austria Hungary.


Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire have historically been at each other's throats. We recognize that war is not the way forward and as the Ottomans have expressed an interest in modernizing their rail network A-H is willing to extend a hand in friendship and mutual growth in expanding and growing the present rail network between Budapest and Istanbul.

[Uber_Amoeba]

As Communist Wizard has fully claimed Russia, I'll take Austria Hungary.


Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire have historically been at each other's throats. We recognize that war is not the way forward and as the Ottomans have expressed an interest in modernizing their rail network A-H is willing to extend a hand in friendship and mutual growth in expanding and growing the present rail network between Budapest and Istanbul.

Our government is elated and gladly accepts the help of Austria-Hungary.

[HUCK]

I take it we have started.

[Shurik]

Our government is elated and gladly accepts the help of Austria-Hungary.

For the sake of consistency and efficiency in our numerous building projects (rail, and presumably tunnels, bridges, etc) throughout the Balkans, South Eastern Europe, and the Middle East: Austria-Hungary proposes collaboration with both the United Kingdom and France to standardize rail gauges and and other transportation related services, including measurements, time schedules, and other aspects of both shipping and rail related services.
I take it we have started.
Who else (countries) do we need to join?

[HUCK]

OOC:What does kicked mean BTW?

[Uber_Amoeba]

For the sake of consistency and efficiency in our numerous building projects (rail, and presumably tunnels, bridges, etc) throughout the Balkans, South Eastern Europe, and the Middle East: Austria-Hungary proposes collaboration with both the United Kingdom and France to standardize rail gauges and and other transportation related services, including measurements, time schedules, and other aspects of both shipping and rail related services.

Of course, that is quite appropriate.

[HUCK]

Who else (countries) do we need to join?

Nobody that I can think of. Let's get this started.

[Shurik]

Of course, that is quite appropriate.
OOC: Just thought I'd mention it as this time period saw everybody investing heavily in rail, but everybody with their own systems, gauges, etc.

[Communist Wizard]

OOC:So, we start? Kicked, BTE, means banned temporarily.
Russia expresses interest in the railroad project.

[Krall]

OoC/ Oweno will be back on the 8th, but I don't see why we shouldn't start without him, seeing as how we've already kind-of started... /OoC

The Netherlands is willing to grant a great deal of aid to the Ottoman Empire, in return for military support in the East Indies.

[Fenwick]

Mexico understands it must repay its debt to Europe. More importantly it must keep up the reforms it has undergone. So the options are simple do we focus outward or inward? Instead we have found out something better, and that is dealing with our northern neighbors. The Confederate States have stockpiles of cotton it is unable to sell, as we share a border they shall transfer such goods to Mexico. At current exchange rates, and due to the lack of raw cotton we shall be able to make payments in a timely fashion, as well as pay off quite a deal of the total amount.

In return? Well we have an army, and are willing to send it North to distract the USA easing the burden of the CSA.

[HUCK]

Mexico understands it must repay its debt to Europe. More importantly it must keep up the reforms it has undergone. So the options are simple do we focus outward or inward? Instead we have found out something better, and that is dealing with our northern neighbors. The Confederate States have stockpiles of cotton it is unable to sell, as we share a border they shall transfer such goods to Mexico. At current exchange rates, and due to the lack of raw cotton we shall be able to make payments in a timely fashion, as well as pay off quite a deal of the total amount.

In return? Well we have an army, and are willing to send it North to distract the USA easing the burden of the CSA.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

[Fenwick]

THANK YOU!!!!!!

Save your thanks till we get paid. We are all for freedom, and hope to have pleasant diplomatic relations, but we are not going to go broke to help the Gringos.

[HUCK]

Save your thanks till we get paid. We are all for freedom, and hope to have pleasant diplomatic relations, but we are not going to go broke to help the Gringos.

True. I do suppose the celebration was early. Let me know when the cotton reaches it location.
OOC: I think oweno is contacting me from the dead.:eek:

[Uber_Amoeba]

OoC/ Oweno will be back on the 8th, but I don't see why we shouldn't start without him, seeing as how we've already kind-of started... /OoC

The Netherlands is willing to grant a great deal of aid to the Ottoman Empire, in return for military support in the East Indies.

Your offer is fair. We will send our Bulgarian and Serbian armies to assist you in the balkans.

Meanwhile, the rest of our army is en route to secure our province of Egypt, which has recently been given to spurts of nationalism and encroached upon by other nations.

[Demosthenes]

Sorry, I was gone for a few days. What did I miss?

[Krall]

Your offer is fair. We will send our Bulgarian and Serbian armies to assist you in the balkans.

OoC/ The East Indies, not the Balkans. And since when did the Ottoman Empire control Serbia? :p /OoC

[Uber_Amoeba]

OoC/ The East Indies, not the Balkans. And since when did the Ottoman Empire control Serbia? :p /OoC


OOC: :o Damn it, I meant we were sending soldiers from the Balkans to help in the East Indies... I was obviously not thinking clearly. And the Serbs, well, we rounded up a few villages and called it an army. They'll probably declare independence as soon as they're off the boat, but what are ya gonna do?:D

[Krall]

OoC/ Oh Serbia, bugger, I misread it as Siberia. /OoC

The Netherlands is greatly thankful to the Ottoman Empire. We have sent some gold and other trade goods to you as a part of our payment. We will also allow Ottoman traders access to our colonies.

[Communist Wizard]

The Russian Empire pledges support to the USA. They are the sovereign ruler of the whole territory, the CSA is nothing but a bunch of rebels. However, we need to upgrade majorly first. We will start industrialising heavily. The Union can help us with this....
OOC: Who's the Union anyway?
The Russian Empire also repeats it's support for a Trans-European railroad...

[Krall]

OoC/ Rocano is the USA, he, like Oweno, has been kicked until the 8th.

They use the same computer. /OoC

The Netherlands, using the newly arrived Ottoman troops to bolster our own forces, has made some advances in the East Indies.

Maps:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9755/deisz7.gif

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3744/1861pt4.gif


On the idea of a Trans-European railroad, we are willing to have the railroad run through the Netherlands. We could have the railroads link up with newly laid railroads in the Ottoman Empire.

[Communist Wizard]

OoC/ Rocano is the USA, he, like Oweno, has been kicked until the 8th.

They use the same computer. /OoC

The Netherlands, using the newly arrived Ottoman troops to bolster our own forces, has made some advances in the East Indies.

Maps:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9755/deisz7.gif

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3744/1861pt4.gif


On the idea of a Trans-European railroad, we are willing to have the railroad run through the Netherlands. We could have the railroads link up with newly laid railroads in the Ottoman Empire.
The Russian Empire notes on a Northern European railroad, connecting to the one going to Baghdad.
OOC: Aw, crap... :(

[HUCK]

ooc:So how are me and rocano going to fight this war?

[Uber_Amoeba]

The Ottoman Empire's new constitution, while giving greater liberty to the Egyptian people, severely limits the powers of the Khedive. Finally, the decision to create an elected body of governors has been finally approved, and is based on the government of our allies the French Empire. To balance the weakening of the Khedive, Egypt has been given a disproportionate number of legislators, and its senators are hand-picked by the Khedive.

Further, thanks to the European money now flowing freely into the Empire from our many allies, we have begun to reform and expand our education system, focusing on literacy and technical skills for our youth.

[Krall]

OoC/ Through a moderator, though I think a peace treaty would be in the CSA's best interests right now, considering they lost IOTL.

You'll have to wait until the 9th, though. /OoC

[HUCK]

OoC/ Through a moderator, though I think a peace treaty would be in the CSA's best interests right now, considering they lost IOTL.

You'll have to wait until the 9th, though. /OoC

OOC: For some reason I don't think he will just let me walk off from the union.

[Shurik]

OOC:
For the purpose of historical accuracy, could those countries involved in the Rail project, post a map of where your present rail system lies so we can build from there? I'll get mine up in a bit.
Thanks

[Fenwick]

OOC: A month equals one page correct?

[Krall]

OoC/ I have no idea where to find a map of the Netherlands' railroads in 1861!

Edit: Yes, one page=one month. /OoC

[HUCK]

OOC: A month equals one page correct?

OOC: That's what it is supposed to be yes.

[Fenwick]

As Mexico has recieved a great stockpile of cotton over the Texas border, it is preparing its Army along with a general call to arms. Great care is taken to have only a volunteer force, as history has shown many do not want to fight if forced to.

OOC: About how much cotton do you suppose arrived? In terms of how much money is a better way to put it.

[Shurik]

OoC/ I have no idea where to find a map of the Netherlands' railroads in 1861!


I'm finding the same thing, OK, I'll just draw up what the international network could look like, then it can be up to the independent nations to determine internal branches/networks.

Edit:
Here's what I propose. I'm assuming you all know the cities at the various junctions. Beyond this, each country can develop internally at their own discretion (or with foreign aid as the case may be).

[Uber_Amoeba]

OOC:
For the purpose of historical accuracy, could those countries involved in the Rail project, post a map of where your present rail system lies so we can build from there? I'll get mine up in a bit.
Thanks

OOC: I believe the Ottomans had no railroads, and OTL the first ones were laid down (or were opened) in 1866.

[HUCK]

has shown many do not want to fight if forced to.

Go figure.:D

[Fenwick]

OOC: In 1860 America made 5 million bales of cotton, and it earned 200 million dollars, or 60% of US exports. 8% of this is $16,000,000, or 400,000 bales of cotton. Without knowing much I believe it is possible for the CSA to have transported about half of that in a month. Also if ones goes on prices of Jan. 1862 5 million bales of cotton is worth 320 million dollars, so the prices went up by 60%. This makes 400,000 bales of cotton worth 24 million, so even at half Mexico has some cash rolling around, hell at a third mexico has money to burn.

[Demosthenes]

The British Empire officially announces that we support the CSA over the Union, and demand that the Union surrender.

[Fenwick]

As Mexico has the cotton it requested, as well as more then enough to pay off its $4 million debt to European nations it shall begin its promised assistance to the Confederate States. Troops are moving into defensive postions along the US-Mexican border, and we are sending what spare grain, coal, and iron we have to the CSA. As Mexico historically has not had enough of any of the three, it is doubtful anything of real use makes it to the Confederate side.

[HUCK]

The British Empire officially announces that we support the CSA over the Union, and demand that the Union surrender.

AMEM to that!

[HUCK]

As Mexico has the cotton it requested, as well as more then enough to pay off its $4 million debt to European nations it shall begin its promised assistance to the Confederate States. Troops are moving into defensive postions along the US-Mexican border, and we are sending what spare grain, coal, and iron we have to the CSA.

AMEN to that also!!!

[baggins]

OOC: I wish to join as China

Our new emperor has taken full control of the empire and now promises allegiance to any nation willing to assist China in political and economic modernisation

[Shurik]

Austria-Hungary has decided to take a non-partisan stance on the North American conflict but is willing to do business with either side who is will pay a far price for munitions and supplies, for the time being.
OOC: in OTL, which side did A-H support?

[Demosthenes]

Austria-Hungary has decided to take a non-partisan stance on the North American conflict but is willing to do business with either side who is will pay a far price for munitions and supplies, for the time being.
OOC: in OTL, which side did A-H support?

OOC: I'm not sure, but I think they were relatively nutral, since the conflict was primarilly focused on the Americas. Britain, who I play, supported the CSA, but not publicly, which is how I am changing up this timeline already.

[Uber_Amoeba]

OOC: I'm not sure, but I think they were relatively nutral, since the conflict was primarilly focused on the Americas. Britain, who I play, supported the CSA, but not publicly, which is how I am changing up this timeline already.
OOC: I change the timeline by building Ottoman railroads 5 years early. You guys do it by declaring war on the States.:D

[Shurik]

OOC: I'm not sure, but I think they were relatively nutral, since the conflict was primarilly focused on the Americas. Britain, who I play, supported the CSA, but not publicly, which is how I am changing up this timeline already.
:
Alrighty then:

Austria-Hungary reaffirms its neutrality in the North American conflict, however, out of respect to its business partners, France and Britain, A-H will give slightly preferential prices to the CSA (OOC: Not that I'm expecting any business, but hey, I've got to make a stand:D)

[Atreus]

Our new emperor has taken full control of the empire and now promises allegiance to any nation willing to assist China in political and economic modernisation

France wishes to open negotiations with China over modernization, possibly in exchange for a naval base and preferential trade?

[Communist Wizard]

Russia, as another developing Empire, wishes to modernise with China.
We pledge support in the Union if it gives us support in industrial matters. Also, perhaps it can help China as well?

[baggins]

France wishes to open negotiations with China over modernization, possibly in exchange for a naval base and preferential trade?

China accepts an agreement of preferential trading with France and they may select two of our ports to use as naval bases. In return we hope France will be able to assist us in modernisation of the Empire.

As a show of good will, three shipfulls of rice and a shipfull of valuable jade will be sent to the port at Calais.

May our alliance be long and fruitful

[Krall]

The British Empire officially announces that we support the CSA over the Union, and demand that the Union surrender.

We also express our support for the CSA, we request that the Union at least allow peace talks to take place, otherwise we may have to directly support the CSA militarily.

OOC: I wish to join as China

Our new emperor has taken full control of the empire and now promises allegiance to any nation willing to assist China in political and economic modernisation

Though we may not be able to assist you economically, due to our debt to the Ottoman Empire, we are willing to offer you our expertise in the areas you intend to modernise in.

[baggins]

Russia, as another developing Empire, wishes to modernise with China.
We pledge support in the Union if it gives us support in industrial matters. Also, perhaps it can help China as well?

China will be glad of an alliance with Russia as well. We will give you similar trading priveleges as we offer France and allow you the use of Port Arthur as a naval base.

To the Union we make an offer: Help us develop our industry and we will support you in your war as much as we can, though it will be limited for the present. To show our pledge to be honest, we send a shipfull of rice with which you can feed your troops.

[Fenwick]

So the British Empire, France, and many other up standing progressive European nations support slavery? Interesting...

[Communist Wizard]

OOC: Excuse me, but can we just freeze the Union/CSA thingy? I think it's not fair for the Union...
Oh, and that's ironic. People like to Trent/CSA wank here...
I remember that I'm supposed to free the serfs soon...
The Russian Empire to China
Thank you for your agreement. We will gladly use Port Arthur. Some sort of trans-Asian rail network might also be good for us...

[Fenwick]

OOC: Excuse me, but can we just freeze the Union/CSA thingy? I think it's not fair for the Union...

OOC: Fine with me, I already stole my money from the CSA so no big deal on my end. :D

[baggins]

China announces that it has begun a re-development of its navy to ease trade with its new allies, soon enough we will have a modern navy to rival any in the world. Any loans or materials from our allies that can speed this development will be greatly appreciated.

China is also interested in constructing such a Trans-Asian Railway as the Russian's have suggested. Conducting such a joint project would increase links between our two empires and help strengthen our new alliance.

Please give us some idea of where this railway will start and where it will finish. As soon as we know, we will begin construction from our end of the continent

[Shurik]

OOC: Excuse me, but can we just freeze the Union/CSA thingy? I think it's not fair for the Union...
Oh, and that's ironic. People like to Trent/CSA wank here...

I remember that I'm supposed to free the serfs soon...
rt Arthur. Some sort of trans-Asian rail network might also be good for us...
OOC:
On that same note, aren't we supposed to be following in the mindset of our nations (at least initially)? As an example, what POD would posses Russia suddenly throw full support into China?

[Communist Wizard]

OOC:
On that same note, aren't we supposed to be following in the mindset of our nations (at least initially)? As an example, what POD would posses Russia suddenly throw full support into China?
OOC: It was friendly with the Chinese, if I remember. In light of all thse events, Russia would go with China because
A- Friendly regional neighbor.
B- Their offer was certainly good for us. Getting Port Arthur for free is fun.
C- The Chinese worked with (or in it :D) the USA well, and we work with the USA well...

[baggins]

OOC: It was friendly with the Chinese, if I remember. In light of all thse events, Russia would go with China because
A- Friendly regional neighbor.
B- Their offer was certainly good for us. Getting Port Arthur for free is fun.
C- The Chinese worked with (or in it :D) the USA well, and we work with the USA well...

OOC: Oh I don't think your getting Port Arthur for free, China needs help redeveloping its navy remember? :D

[Shurik]

OOC: It was friendly with the Chinese, if I remember. In light of all thse events, Russia would go with China because
A- Friendly regional neighbor.
B- Their offer was certainly good for us. Getting Port Arthur for free is fun.
C- The Chinese worked with (or in it :D) the USA well, and we work with the USA well...
OCC:
If that's the case I've no problem with it, I just wanted some clarification regarding how radically we can change the direction nations are already headed in.

[baggins]

OCC:
If that's the case I've no problem with it, I just wanted some clarification regarding how radically we can change the direction nations are already headed in.

Well, my China has the Xianfeng Emperor living further on then OTL and getting reform ideas into his head. Is that too much of a change of direction :confused:

[Shurik]

Well, my China has the Xianfeng Emperor living further on then OTL and getting reform ideas into his head. Is that too much of a change of direction :confused:
OOC:
I suppose so, the rules aren't very clear on it. "Play out the politics". I was just hoping to get some clarification before we get too far out there by the time the moderator shows up again.

[Communist Wizard]

OOC: Oh I don't think your getting Port Arthur for free, China needs help redeveloping its navy remember? :D
OOC: Yes, but that's not such a hard job is it? I help them do it, I don't make it by myself.
The Xianfeng Emperor could easily get ideas into his head concerning that, I think.
The Russian Empire to China:
The railway should go from St.Ptersburg to Moscow, then east through Siberia to Vladivostok, then down to Peking and then south by the Chinese coast.
We will help you with your navy.

[baggins]

The Russian Empire to China:
The railway should go from St.Ptersburg to Moscow, then east through Siberia to Vladivostok, then down to Peking and then south by the Chinese coast.
We will help you with your navy.

Empire of China to Russia:
Agreed, as long as the terminus is in the port city of Hangzhou.

I am glad you will assist in our naval expansion, this will not be forgotten.

Empire of China to France:

We would like to request the construction in your shipyards of three Ironclad warships. In return we will be pay to you the equivalent of 10,000 francs. Will you accept?

Also, have you selected which 2 ports you wish to use for naval bases?

[Atreus]

France thanks China for reaching a decision so soon.

We would request Dalian (Port Arthur) and Guangzhou as our ports, however, we realize that Port Arthur may be unavalible, so we would accept Tsingtao as an alternative. If Guangzhou is unavalible, we would also accept Zhanjiang as our Naval base. in the meantime, French engineers are making their way to China to begin advising your emperor.

[baggins]

France thanks China for reaching a decision so soon.

We would request Dalian (Port Arthur) and Guangzhou as our ports, however, we realize that Port Arthur may be unavalible, so we would accept Tsingtao as an alternative. If Guangzhou is unavalible, we would also accept Zhanjiang as our Naval base. in the meantime, French engineers are making their way to China to begin advising your emperor.

A thousand thank you's for the engineers, they will no doubt prove invaluable to us.

In regard to Naval bases, we have already given use of Port Arthur to Russia so you may have Tsingtao. You may have Guangzhou however .

To Russia: So far you have given us little. We have begun the proposed Trans-Asian Railway but what have you given us to help reform our navy? France has sent engineers... What do you offer?

[Demosthenes]

If the Union does not surrender to the CSA by the end of the next month, we will declare war and invade the Union.

[Communist Wizard]

A thousand thank you's for the engineers, they will no doubt prove invaluable to us.

In regard to Naval bases, we have already given use of Port Arthur to Russia so you may have Tsingtao. We wish to retain control of Guangzhou for the time being so we offer you Zhanjiang as well.

To Russia: So far you have given us little. We have begun the proposed Trans-Asian Railway but what have you given us to help reform our navy? France has sent engineers... What do you offer?
We will send you our railway experts that can be pulled away from the work in Russia, engineers, other expendable experts, and factory persons.
Remember that we will also help with the Navy.

[Communist Wizard]

If the Union does not surrender to the CSA by the end of the next month, we will declare war and invade the Union.
OOC: The USA/CSA thingy should be frozen...

[Atreus]

You may have Guangzhou however .


In that case, we also request control to the land on either side of the sound which Guangzhou is at the end of (name escapes me).

OOC: I agree, freeze the civil war. And when did I side with the CSA?

[baggins]

Though we may not be able to assist you economically, due to our debt to the Ottoman Empire, we are willing to offer you our expertise in the areas you intend to modernise in.

We thank you for your offer. As mentioned, we wish to modernise our navy and in addition transport, military and our political system.

A message to all european nations: Our emperor has been informed of the plans for a trans-European railway. He has requested we ask if it and the Trans-Asian Railway under construction could eventually be linked, improving links between Europe and Asia

[HUCK]

And when did I side with the CSA?

OOC: Who said you were?

[Communist Wizard]

In that case, we also request control to the land on either side of the sound which Guangzhou is at the end of (name escapes me).

OOC: I agree, freeze the civil war. And when did I side with the CSA?
OOC: People regard you as Britain's puppy :D
Also, the sound has a British city and an important Chinese city... I'm pretty sure asking for those is a bit exorbiant.
Also, the tramns-European railway links to St.Ptersburg and Moscow already, so they would be linked anyways.

[baggins]

[quote=Atreus;1425821]In that case, we also request control to the land on either side of the sound which Guangzhou is at the end of (name escapes me).[quote/]
OOC: Messed that quote up.


I afraid we can not allow this. We wish to retain this land and also part of it is controlled by the British, we dare not anger the Empire.

[Atreus]

Also, the sound has a British city and an important Chinese city... I'm pretty sure asking for those is a bit exorbiant.

OOC: I was working on the idea that if I got Guangzhou, there would not be to much trouble with China handing over the rest of the sound. But which British city?

OOC: Who said you were?

Somebody mentioned I had sided with you against the Union a few pages back. ironically, at the time, I was contemplating whether I was going to have to declare against you if Mexico failed to pay it's bills and you interfered.:cool:

[HUCK]

it's bills and you interfered.:cool:

I'm a jerk like that.:D

[Fenwick]

OOC: I was working on the idea that if I got Guangzhou, there would not be to much trouble with China handing over the rest of the sound. But which British city?



Somebody mentioned I had sided with you against the Union a few pages back. ironically, at the time, I was contemplating whether I was going to have to declare against you if Mexico failed to pay it's bills and you interfered.:cool:

Not an issue now. Mexico owed France at most 4 million dollars, and thanks to recent cotton shipments Mexico can pay off almost all of its debt in one quick payment.

[Atreus]

Anyways, I move that once Rocano gets back, we reset the ACW to how it was at the time in OTL. Then, people can do whatever they want, but until then, the war is considered to go according to OTL.

AS for when Rocano gets back, I offer myself as arbiter for battles between the USA and "CSA" (not considered a true country at the time).

IC: Mexico, France reuests some assurence that you can pay your bills on time. If not, then we will have to adress other possible modes of payment.

[Communist Wizard]

OOC: I was working on the idea that if I got Guangzhou, there would not be to much trouble with China handing over the rest of the sound. But which British city?

OOC: Hong Kong
The Russian Empire's News:
-The Tsar has pledged support to the Union in the face of rebel southern curs, in return for industrialising help.
-The Tsar has pledged alliance with China, in return for Port Arthur. We will help them modernise in turn.
-The Tsar wants to help in the building of a trans-European and trans-Asian railroad.
-The Tsar makes motions to free the serfs.
Diplomacy:
Will the French enter some agreement with us? Perhaps an alliance?

[Atreus]

Not an issue now. Mexico owed France at most 4 million dollars, and thanks to recent cotton shipments Mexico can pay off almost all of its debt in one quick payment.

OOC: Which makes me wonder how the CSA economy is going to fare in the rest of the world.


Diplomacy:
Will the French enter some agreement with us?

Of course. but what sort of agreement?

[HUCK]

the war is considered to go according to OTL

Isn't this Alternate History?

[Demosthenes]

Anyways, I move that once Rocano gets back, we reset the ACW to how it was at the time in OTL. Then, people can do whatever they want, but until then, the war is considered to go according to OTL.

AS for when Rocano gets back, I offer myself as arbiter for battles between the USA and "CSA" (not considered a true country at the time).

IC: Mexico, France reuests some assurence that you can pay your bills on time. If not, then we will have to adress other possible modes of payment.

OOC: Well, just telling ya, Britain will not accept any arbiter to a dispute they think they can win.

[HUCK]

"CSA" (not considered a true country at the time).

Bite me:mad:



:D

[Atreus]

Isn't this Alternate History?

But it is kind of unfare to a country to have a war going on and not be able to fight it.

OOC: Well, just telling ya, Britain will not accept any arbiter to a dispute they think they can win.

I mean that both sides PM me their forces, and I decide how the battle goes.

[HUCK]

But it is kind of unfare to a country to have a war going on and not be able to fight it.

OOC: Oooooooooh... I thought all my alliances were cancelled out.

[Communist Wizard]

OOC: In case you didn't notice it...
To France:
Perhaps an alliance? Threats in the world are runing rampant, it would be wise of us to join together, We already have common interests in China and the North American dispute.
OOC: Note that in 1861 the war was thought to be little more than a minor thing...

[Atreus]

OOC: Oooooooooh... I thought all my alliances were cancelled out.

In a sense, they would be. Any deals which would alter the course of the war would be canceled until Rocano gets back. Then, of course, you can both make whatever deals you want (although people seem to be supporting you to quickly, to be honest; they need a cause belli to actually fight). I think minor things, like trade with mexico, might not have to be forgotten.

[Fenwick]

OOC: Which makes me wonder how the CSA economy is going to fare in the rest of the world.



Of course. but what sort of agreement?

OOC: It does not really effect the CSA to any great extent as per OTL. the CSA on average got 5 million bales of cotton a year after 1861, that equals about 200 million dollars. During the ACW anywhere from 40-60% of Confederate cotton was left unsold to foriegn nations. It was used for other things mind you, but it was not King Cotton as many assumed. Sending cotton over a shared border is different then breaking an American blockade.

[Atreus]

To France:
Perhaps an alliance? Threats in the world are runing rampant, it would be wise of us to join together, We already have common interests in China and the North American dispute.


OOC: I did see it.

IC: France agrees. In this century so far, both of our nations have wasted blood and treasure on war between ourselves with little gain. But as allies, we could rise together to our places in the sun.

[Demosthenes]

But it is kind of unfare to a country to have a war going on and not be able to fight it.

I mean that both sides PM me their forces, and I decide how the battle goes.

OOC: Understood. I agree for Atreus to be the mod on the Civil War.

[HUCK]

OOC: Understood. I agree for Atreus to be the mod on the Civil War.

OOC: As long as he is impartial. yes.

[Brandonazz]

I just read through the thread and this is the vibe I got.

lol I iz modernizing and pwning t3h USA

You guys need to do what is within the likelihood of occurring in reality.

[Shurik]

You guys need to do what is within the likelihood of occurring in reality.
Thank you!:)

[HUCK]

OWENO IS CONTACTING ME FROM THE DEAD!!!

[Brandonazz]

Uh...huh...

For example, I doubt that one sunny day in 1861 Sultan Abdulaziz sat up in his bed and arbitrarily declared "I want railroads! And you know what else? I think everybody is perfectly equal!" He then did not go sailing to Paris and London where the leaders began embracing each other with open arms and creating alliances on the spur of the moment. Austria-Hungary would not have said, "letz not fight k?" and jumped in to help the Ottomans in any way. It just doesn't work like that.

[Demosthenes]

OWENO IS CONTACTING ME FROM THE DEAD!!!

OOC: Same here. :D

[baggins]

OOC: I did see it.

IC: France agrees. In this century so far, both of our nations have wasted blood and treasure on war between ourselves with little gain. But as allies, we could rise together to our places in the sun.

China is pleased beyond words to see our two allies France and Russia form their own alliance. We hope that all three of our nations may rise to lead the world in times to come.

[Uber_Amoeba]

Uh...huh...

For example, I doubt that one sunny day in 1861 Sultan Abdulaziz sat up in his bed and arbitrarily declared "I want railroads! And you know what else? I think everybody is perfectly equal!" He then did not go sailing to Paris and London where the leaders began embracing each other with open arms and creating alliances on the spur of the moment. Austria-Hungary would not have said, "letz not fight k?" and jumped in to help the Ottomans in any way. It just doesn't work like that.

The first Ottoman railroads came in 1866, and the Constitution of 1876 is exactly what I based my own off of - it includes the same parameters regarding race and religion. The Ottomans had been in a period of modernization since 1848, sped up by the Crimean War, then sped up again because this is Alternate History. I'm pretty much just accelerating what happened historically.

As for everyone else funding my railroads, well, I assume they must have some super-secret selfish reason for it (at least the Netherlands were upfront about it). But yeah, when Austria jumped onto the Ottoman bandwagon it was rather odd.

[Communist Wizard]

OOC: Russia was always friendly with France, and our common interests with China and the USA spurred that alliance. China gave us a good deal, and the Russian Empire and China were friendly on more than one occasion. Russia was modernising highly at the time (the Crimean War spurred this on greatly) and the Russian Empire and the USA were extremely friendly (later on, we sold Alaska). Besides, who are you to just come in and fire off at the whole game? All that I am doing is based on history.

[baggins]

OOC: There was desire for change in China as the Taiping rebellion showed. The main holdback was Empress Cixi. Speaking of which...

IC: The Chinese are sad to announce the death of their empress (OC: Yeah right:D). A funeral will be held in Beijing in a week.

OOC: Well, let the reforms continue :D:D:D

[HUCK]

OOC: There was desire for change in China as the Taiping rebellion showed. The main holdback was Empress Cixi. Speaking of which...

IC: The Chinese are sad to announce the death of their empress (OC: Yeah right:D). A funeral will be held in Beijing in a week.

OOC: Well, let the reforms continue :D:D:D

The Confederacy is sorry to hear of your loss. (OOC: tee-hee:D)

[Communist Wizard]

OOC: There was desire for change in China as the Taiping rebellion showed. The main holdback was Empress Cixi. Speaking of which...

IC: The Chinese are sad to announce the death of their empress (OC: Yeah right:D). A funeral will be held in Beijing in a week.

OOC: Well, let the reforms continue :D:D:D
OOC:Uhhh... Wasn't the emperor Yizhung or Zaichun at the time? Cixi was towards the end of the century... Though you got it right, everyone hated her.

[baggins]

OOC:Uhhh... Wasn't the emperor Yizhung or Zaichun at the time? Cixi was towards the end of the century... Though you got it right, everyone hated her.

Yes, in 1861 it was the Xianfeng emperor but Cixi held a lot of sway over him. With her out of the way he can think for himself from now on.

[baggins]

OOC:Oweno has now contacted me!!!

IC: China now announces an invasion of the rebellious Taiping Kingdom to the south. An army of 2 million soldiers is being sent to bring these religious fanatics back into line.

We ask our allies in Russia and France to support us in our campaign. In return, we promise territorrial concessions to be decided at a later date.

[Communist Wizard]

OOC:Oweno has now contacted me!!!

IC: China now announces an invasion of the rebellious Taiping Kingdom to the south. An army of 2 million soldiers is being sent to bring these religious fanatics back into line.

We ask our allies in Russia and France to support us in our campaign. In return, we promise territorrial concessions to be decided at a later date.
The Far East fleet and 10,000 men will be sent to quash the rebellion.

[Atreus]

The french Navy will support China, as well as any troops we can assemble in the area.

[HUCK]

We have worked out a treaty with the USA.

[Communist Wizard]

We have worked out a treaty with the USA.
OOC: Uhhh... How is he contacting you? And did he even let this happen?

[Fenwick]

OOC: So no Virginia? So the CSA was able to get independence without the military backbone that Virginia provided? :confused:

[HUCK]

OOC: Uhhh... How is he contacting you? And did he even let this happen?

OOC: Remember how I said people were contacting me from the dead? Yeah, well...

[HUCK]

OOC: So no Virginia? So the CSA was able to get independence without the military backbone that Virginia provided? :confused:

OOC: Ohhhh we'll get it back somehow. *hint,hint*:D

[baggins]

We have worked out a treaty with the USA.

China is pleased to here the 2 American nations have resolved their problems without an unnessecerry amount of bloodshed. This will also allow us to put greater focus on bringing the south of China back into line. We are sending a further 1 million troops to conduct this campaign. Our Military advisors estimate the war will be over in a few months.

We would like to thank Russia and France for their support thus far and remind them that it will not go unrewarded.

[Shurik]

As no one has claimed Prussia yet, and I've claimed Austria-Hungary, is there anyone opposed to my claiming the German Confederation, as a single country? It did exist briefly from 1850 through 1866, so technically it was in existence at this time.

[Atreus]

As no one has claimed Prussia yet, and I've claimed Austria-Hungary, is there anyone opposed to my claiming the German Confederation, as a single country? It did exist briefly from 1850 through 1866, so technically it was in existence at this time.

Not happening. The german confederation was not a true governing entity. and to absorb the rest, you will need to negotiate with each individual state (played by other members of the game), and use something truly convincing to unite them (Prussia only did it after incredibly successful wars against Denmark, Austria-Hungary, and France in quick succession).

And I thought someone took Prussia.

[Shurik]

Not happening. The german confederation was not a true governing entity. and to absorb the rest, you will need to negotiate with each individual state (played by other members of the game), and use something truly convincing to unite them (Prussia only did it after incredibly successful wars against Denmark, Austria-Hungary, and France in quick succession).

And I thought someone took Prussia.

I didn't think anyone had taken all the smaller states involved. And by the way, who is Prussia? Aren't we supposed to have a war soon? (1866).

[Communist Wizard]

Russia proposes that the Chinese give us this piece of Korea... We need it for more viable ports in the Pacific...
40148

[baggins]

Russia proposes that the Chinese give us this piece of Korea... We need it for more viable ports in the Pacific...
40148

China agrees to this concession. Russia has assisted us greatly in the Taiping War and they deserve reward. However, we wish for Russia to recognise Chinese control over the Manchuria region and remove any claims to it.

[Communist Wizard]

China agrees to this concession. Russia has assisted us greatly in the Taiping War and they deserve reward. However, we wish for Russia to recognise Chinese control over the Manchuria region and remove any claims to it.
OOC: We had... claims? :eek:
Russia shall promptly remove all claims on Manchuria.

[baggins]

OOC: We had... claims? :eek:
Russia shall promptly remove all claims on Manchuria.

OOC: Yep :D, someone should have looked at the map :rolleyes:

IC: China thanks Russia and now offers a territorrial concession to the French as well, in thanks for their military support. We will allow you to take control of the island of Hainan and allow you a free hand in Indochina. Our emperor plans our expansion in different directions...

[HUCK]

The CSA has also signed a non-agression pact with the USA. We have also abolished the slave trade.

[Fenwick]

The CSA has also signed a non-agression pact with the USA. We have also abolished the slave trade.

OOC: The CSA already abolished the international slave trade by this time.

[Atreus]

IC: China thanks Russia and now offers a territorrial concession to the French as well, in thanks for their military support. We will allow you to take control of the island of Hainan and allow you a free hand in Indochina. Our emperor plans our expansion in different directions...

If we are to recieve that land, France would be interested in purchasing the Zhanjiang peninsula, so as to construct a naval base. However, this is an acceptable deal for the French empire.

OOC: The CSA already abolished the international slave trade by this time.

OOC: The US did. As the CSA was never a true nation, it is hard to be sure what course of Action it will follow.

[Shurik]

Internally:
Austria, recognizing the military advantages Prussia holds over us, has begun a major restructuring of its military, specifically, re-assigning reserve unit headquarters to where the men live, and investing massive amounts of the budget into expanding the existing rail network.

Externally:
Austria wishes to expand the (OTL) treaty with Russia to include trade agreements to be negotiated.

[Krall]

The Netherlands wishes to enter into negotiations for a trade agreement with the CSA. However, if we ever agree on a trade agreement, be aware that any persons found trading slaves in the Netherlands or our territories will be punished.


We have made some advance in the East Indies, only a few pockets of resistance remain!

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7472/indnk7.png

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8762/1861otlvl5.png

[Fenwick]

OOC: The US did. As the CSA was never a true nation, it is hard to be sure what course of Action it will follow.

OOC: The CSA constitution abolished the slave trade, not the ownership of slaves.

[baggins]

Could someone update the map?

[Oweno]

Made the playing thread at http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=80754
Ok so lets go