Question: Interwar Soviet Invasion of Poland

[Douglas]

Before, say, Hitler's rise to power, would any major power really stick their necks out for the Poles if the Soviet Union invades?

[Ynnead]

the soviet union did try to invade poland in the 20s, but failed

[Faeelin]

I imagine Gemany would care...

[Douglas]

I imagine Gemany would care...

But what could they do about it? 100,000 man army?

Is France or Great Britain going to intervene on the Poles' behalf?

[Douglas]

the soviet union did try to invade poland in the 20s, but failed

Thank you, Captain. For future reference, assume that people know something about what they're talking about, otherwise you just seem annoying. :rolleyes:

[Ynnead]

I was just pointing out something

[BrotherToAll]

A Soviet invasion either in the late 20's or early 30's would be an interesting situation, you may see Poiand turn more so into the image of the defender of free Europe from the Communist hords also it may actually be beneficial to Poland as well, the Poles had a decent standing force lead by veterans of the Polish-Bolshevik war as well as a determined populace, so you could see a jump in Polish industry as well as French and English help (though the amount of aid received is questionable mostly material is my guess). Most of the fighting would take place in Eastern Poland which keeps the more industrialized western parts safe during the early years also the Poles had proved time and time again the skill of their intelligence gathering agencies. So Poland has the advantage of international support in a time where fear of the Soviets was very high as well as the advantage of being on the defense. I have thought a lot about a Second Polish-Soviet war pre WW2 and done quite a bit of research on the various militaries of the period I think you could see nothing more than another Soviet defeat and the further hardening of Polish resolve to maintain its independence. Though on the other side I wonder if the Germans would be allowed to expand on their army and military industry to suport the Poles?

[Thande]

At this point I feel the need to mention Bobby Hardenbrook's Shattered World TL, even though I daresay you already know about it.

[JEDCJT]

At this point I feel the need to mention Bobby Hardenbrook's Shattered World TL, even though I daresay you already know about it.

No, I don't. :)

[Thande]

No, I don't. :)

http://www.geocities.com/cypher_zzz/index.html

[Michele]

It depends on several factors. How long the war lasts, do the Soviets show they have limited objectives or not...

If we assume that this happens in, say, 1931, that the Soviets make it amply clear that they only want to straighten the border around the Ukrainan minority, and that the issue is solved in six months or less, the other major powers won't be doing a lot. France is Poland's ally, and it will declare war and send aid, probably it will slowly and laboriously put together a token expeditionary force; that's not "sticking their head out".

Of course this is not a good time for the USSR to go to war (indeed, one wonders what's the POD that brings this along), and while it will be very costly for the Poles on account of numbers alone, I think the ceasefire line will be close to a draw, if anything; the Poles may even advance to Kiev. Aftershocks in the USSR may reach very high.

[Empror Mike]

Actually, I did have an idea for timeline titled "A Century of War" in which the Soviet invasion of Poland is more well-coordinated, and therefor the Soviets win that war. Soviet troops soon invade the war-weakened Germany and go pretty far in.
The French and the British then send troops to Germany to wipe-off the Reds; they are also weakened from the war, and it takes them time to liberate Germany and Poland.
In short, the crumbling of the German, Austrian, Ottoman, Russian, and Chinese empires goes much worse then IOTL. The fighting continues ferociously, none-stop, until the 21st century. The gradual exhaustion and bleeding of the world's empires (such as Britain, France, and Japan) results in earlier de-colonialization, which in-turn results in greater bloodshed and idealogical mess.
Da End... Or is it?

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

I imagine Gemany would care...

Since they enjoyed rather good relations with the Soviets before Hitler and even engaged in secret military cooperation, don't expect them to jump in to save Poland.

But there are other countries bordering the USSR (Turkey, Romania, Finland, Latvia, Estonia) and in the general vicinity (Czechosovakia, Hungary, Lithuania) that would care a great deal about how this war develops. Poland is the strongest state facing the Soviets, if they fall then all the others are at risk. The Czechoslovaks and the Lithuanians had lousy relations with the Poles but would still rather support them than see communism reach their borders.

If these countries don't hang together they hang separately.

[Fenwick]

Thank you, Captain. For future reference, assume that people know something about what they're talking about, otherwise you just seem annoying. :rolleyes:

Kinda harsh there bro. Your first post neglects the Poland-Soviet war, and one could easily assume, as I did when I first read this, that you are unaware of it.

[Douglas]

Kinda harsh there bro. Your first post neglects the Poland-Soviet war, and one could easily assume, as I did when I first read this, that you are unaware of it.

Perhaps, nonetheless, assuming I am interested in the subject, since I posed the question, one can assume I took a look at Wikipedia for some basic info first. Furthermore, his post doesn't actually address the question: it mentions no great power, it merely says that the Soviet Union and Poland fought a war. Thus my annoyance.

[BernieP2]

Such an event ( Polish -Soviet War in say 1931 or 32) would probably result in Germany plotting to recover the territory lost in the east after Versailles i.e. West Preussen province ("Polish Corridor"), bulk of Posen Province, and the bits of Schliesien given to Poland.

With the Poles busy with the Soviets, it seems like a fine opportunity to "make the border right again." IMHO the Soviets would probably be looking to recover the areas of White Russia that they lost in the 20's. The wild card may well be what happens in Ukraine and whether the contrived Famine is allowed to take place.

Just my ideas,

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Such an event ( Polish -Soviet War in say 1931 or 32) would probably result in Germany plotting to recover the territory lost in the east after Versailles i.e. West Preussen province ("Polish Corridor"), bulk of Posen Province, and the bits of Schliesien given to Poland.

With the Poles busy with the Soviets, it seems like a fine opportunity to "make the border right again." IMHO the Soviets would probably be looking to recover the areas of White Russia that they lost in the 20's. The wild card may well be what happens in Ukraine and whether the contrived Famine is allowed to take place.

Just my ideas,
ALL True ...

Also if this Occurs Due to Butterflies from a Lack of a War in The 1920s, The Man Who was My Great-Great-Grandfather in OTL May Serve in an Administrative Capacity ...

However if it Happens After The OTL Russo-Polish War, he May Return from America and Bring The Granddaughter Who was to be My Grandmother with him!

:eek:

[Susano]

But what could they do about it? 100,000 man army?

But they do have a nice source of deniable assets, albeit also rather uncontrollable assets in the form of the Freikorps.

Since they enjoyed rather good relations with the Soviets before Hitler and even engaged in secret military cooperation, don't expect them to jump in to save Poland.
Not in reality, right (and then, why should Germany?), but the pretext of saving Europe from communism could go a long way to justify an intervention with the de facto aim of restoring the 1914 borders....

[Nekromans]

Perhaps, nonetheless, assuming I am interested in the subject, since I posed the question, one can assume I took a look at Wikipedia for some basic info first. Furthermore, his post doesn't actually address the question: it mentions no great power, it merely says that the Soviet Union and Poland fought a war. Thus my annoyance.

What, are you auditioning for Hoodbhoy Jr.? :rolleyes:

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

What, are you auditioning for Hoodbhoy Jr.? :rolleyes:

And just what is that supposed to mean?

[Nekromans]

And just what is that supposed to mean?

That you're both equally and unjustly snarky when someone makes an innocent mistake.

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

That you're both equally and unjustly snarky when someone makes an innocent mistake.

My snarkiness was perfectly just. And I'm pretty sure I have no equal in that area.