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Blackwood
November 18th, 2007, 03:30 PM
What if the Mayflower was blown slightly off course during its journey (although it was blown off course in OTL, I suppose), and then experiences a particularly violent storm that it would have avoided OTL. What is the effect on English colonization, and on American colonization as a whole? Would it have any noticeable effect on the early colonies? The passengers and ship would have been lost sometime during the journey, and it could easily have been chalked up to bad construction, seeing as there had been earlier problems with setting sailing. So what, if any, effect does this have on future colonization efforts in the Americas?

Parma
November 18th, 2007, 06:09 PM
What if the Mayflower was blown slightly off course during its journey (although it was blown off course in OTL, I suppose), and then experiences a particularly violent storm that it would have avoided OTL. What is the effect on English colonization, and on American colonization as a whole? Would it have any noticeable effect on the early colonies? The passengers and ship would have been lost sometime during the journey, and it could easily have been chalked up to bad construction, seeing as there had been earlier problems with setting sailing. So what, if any, effect does this have on future colonization efforts in the Americas?

I think the impact of the whole voyage of the Mayflower and their passangers is Highly overrated in history. Mayflowere or no mayflower is does not matter much. Christian orthodox influence in the later USA will be much less whitout a Mayflower.

freodhoric
November 19th, 2007, 02:08 AM
It would have an extremely noticeable effect in that Plymouth Bay Colony was seemingly instrumental in starting King Philip's War. That war resulted in the deaths of something like a third of the colonists and 3/4 of the New England natives. A different or nonexistent King Philip's War changes early American history beyond recognition.

Jaded_Railman
November 19th, 2007, 02:51 AM
I think the impact of the whole voyage of the Mayflower and their passangers is Highly overrated in history. Mayflowere or no mayflower is does not matter much. Christian orthodox influence in the later USA will be much less whitout a Mayflower.


Not so over-rated. Many of the pro-independence patriots were descendents of the original puritan colonists.

Baron von Feldspar
November 19th, 2007, 06:14 AM
Not so over-rated. Many of the pro-independence patriots were descendents of the original puritan colonists.

Oh I'm one the descendants of the original puritan colonists. Except that I'm Canadian whose sympathies are entirely with the United Empire Loyalist and not with the rebs.

The Puritans were a unique settler group. People need extraordinary motivation to go to lot of trouble and cost to emigrate. Mainly there was a lot motivation involved. Africans were enslaved and sent across the middle passage, they ended up populating South American, Caribbean and North American plantations. The plantations were started with a "gold rush" mentality, gambling aristocrats looking to make a fortune. There were English and Irish indentured servants who sent to the Americas and Newfoundland. Australia was famously settled by convicts. The highland clearances threw the Scots out of Scotland to the colonies, like to "Nova Scotia". There was even a system of shipping orphans to Canada, the Barnardo's boys, where they were indentured and abused. Lots of people had to forced to come to the New World. Those who weren't forced had to be heavily enticed with the hope of great riches, and a better job back home.

The Puritans, the Mayflower and those who followed resembled immigration populations of today than of the past. They were a "middle class" being neither slaves or slave owners. There were neither adventurers or exiles. The Puritans were a group that could, barring political complications, have a reasonable secure and prosperous life with emigrating it was their choice that not forced by circumstance (the indentured) or gambled for the big prize (the conquistadors) led to their stability and influence.

Without New England society North America will be a rerun of South America with only Lords and Peasants.