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Thande
November 15th, 2007, 05:33 PM
(For Leej ;) ).

Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to make the history of Ireland as close as possible to how some Americans apparently think it is, with plausible justifications.

I.e., the only thing stopping a Gaelic-speaking world empire spreading out from Eire is the perfidy of the eeeeeevil English.

Your POD can be as far back as you want, because God knows you're going to need it :D

Nekromans
November 15th, 2007, 05:36 PM
(For Leej ;) ).

Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to make the history of Ireland as close as possible to how some Americans apparently think it is, with plausible justifications.

I.e., the only thing stopping a Gaelic-speaking world empire spreading out from Eire is the perfidy of the eeeeeevil English.

Your POD can be as far back as you want, because God knows you're going to need it :D

May I humbly suggest that the harp is required as the national symbol?

Thande
November 15th, 2007, 05:37 PM
May I humbly suggest that the harp is required as the national symbol?

And the shamrock.

And possibly a pint of Guinness.

Nekromans
November 15th, 2007, 05:42 PM
And the shamrock.

And possibly a pint of Guinness.

Well, obviously the Guinness.

Perhaps we could have Super-English Anti-Celtic Bad-Nazis in power and attempt a parallel of the holocaust? (I sounded like a Japanese anime then, didn't I?) Maybe it's proven that the English caused the potato famine by their presence on the sacred isle?

More seriously, maybe my attempts at Islamic Ireland could come to fruition, and the English could be even more Irish-Killing to try and get rid of the Oirish Mahometans!

Nekromans
November 15th, 2007, 06:17 PM
In case my Loyal Readers (all three of them) didn't realise it, that was a sign that I am seriously considering going back to Al-Eyir, but need some help on how the hell to get there. Any suggestions?

NapoleonXIV
November 15th, 2007, 07:24 PM
Oliver Cromwell, before he dies, has been reading about Tokugawa Japan. Seeing the Sagoku as the possible solution to the Irish problem (they've just started another revolution, which he's again just put down, with another few massacres), he places them in charge of his most ruthless lieutenants just before he shuffles off the mortal coil with instructions to follow the model of the 'country in chains' as closely as possible.

In the next decade Ireland is completely cut off from the outside world, and with the restoration that includes England itself. Ireland is now ruled by a ruthless Lord Protector, a Shogun, but without the Shogun's normal tendency and motivation to be a nice guy:p

Cut to 1814 when the invading Americans overthrow the Crown and liberate Ireland:p:D. What would Ireland be like after 200 years of total oppression and absolute isolation?

Tyr
November 15th, 2007, 08:00 PM
Stop the invention of beer.
Why should we conquer the world when we've got guiness? :D

Valdemar II
November 15th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Stop the invention of beer.
Why should we conquer the world when we've got guiness? :D

Yes clearly the German have shown that people with beer are some of the most peaceful people in the world.

NapoleonXIV
November 15th, 2007, 09:14 PM
Yes clearly the German have shown that people with beer are some of the most peaceful people in the world.

AA...but they have none of our Irish whisky. Beer, y'know, will just rust your Irishman's iron stomach, whisky pickles it.

Canis Lupus
November 15th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Stop the invention of beer.
Why should we conquer the world when we've got guiness? :D
There was a Family Guy episdoe that had this exact same joke.


And, Thande, its not Americas fault that England is sooo very evvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllll.......... .........

rcduggan
November 15th, 2007, 10:47 PM
a meteor shower kills everyone but the irish.

at the same time, we ride our leprechaun space ships to colonize the world. and drink Guinness.

DMA
November 15th, 2007, 11:06 PM
How about the Irish are Protestant whilst the English are all Catholics... ;)

randomkeith
November 15th, 2007, 11:44 PM
How about a senario were by St. Patrick was unable to bring Christianity to the Emerald Isle, and as a result the Irish pagans form an alliance with the heathen Scotts and are easily able to over run and enslave their peacefull Christian neighbours in England.

Rocano
November 16th, 2007, 12:01 AM
And the shamrock.

And possibly a pint of Guinness.

You suck even as a joke thats insensitive

Rocano
November 16th, 2007, 12:03 AM
Hugh Oneills Rebellion suceeds Irish get on good terms with Catholic Nations Irish Send Sailors and settle North East America

Farfromhome
November 16th, 2007, 12:13 AM
Ha apparently you all have not realized it yet, but there is a an Irish Empire that rules the world. Its called the US of A.

Hobelhouse
November 16th, 2007, 12:15 AM
You suck even as a joke thats insensitive

Dude, lighten up. And I say this as a guy who has an O' in front of his name. ;)

Oweno
November 16th, 2007, 12:25 AM
How about a senario were by St. Patrick was unable to bring Christianity to the Emerald Isle, and as a result the Irish pagans form an alliance with the heathen Scotts and are easily able to over run and enslave their peacefull Christian neighbours in England.

The Irish Colonized Scotland

Wanderlust
November 16th, 2007, 12:34 AM
I've done a set of stories based on a timeline like this :D

But I won't post them on here because I want to publish them :p

mutt
November 16th, 2007, 12:38 AM
You suck even as a joke thats insensitive
If there's one thing the Irish do, it's we do humour well, even on ourselves...lighten up, Old Irish guy in the Simpsons voice:shur it's all in good fun.:D

mutt
November 16th, 2007, 12:39 AM
The Irish Colonized Scotland
We ah...wiped out the original inhabitents to a large degree:o

mutt
November 16th, 2007, 12:56 AM
Tongue in cheek, Irish settlers go to South America, they colonise a large chunk of Argentina (they did arrive in large numbers in RL) the whole Falklands thing happens early 20th century, Argentina wins, becomes most powerful state in SA, decide to free the mother country, invade, the Brits are busy with WW1, Ireland liberated, union with Argentina, side with the Germans, WW1 ends in pretty much stalemate,
Brit's don't loose but don't win either, New Hibernian union decides that some land aquistion of it's own is in order, takes Uraguay, part's of Chile, Peru ect, weakend UK Scotland decides on independence, large numbers of Irish/Scots want union, ethnically cleanse Scotland, union, now named the Gaelic union, war with Colombia, union wins annexes the country, Brazil signs non aggression pact, large art's of Canada with dominient Irish/Scots populations vote to leave and join union, non aggresion and friendship pact with the US, encourage insurrection in Australia and NZ, GU attempts first manned moon landing, pilot drunk ship crashes, pilot refuses to be breathalized, insurence on ship null and void, many people annoyed, GU invades rump English state, resistence collapses due to the huge amount of Irish and Scottish people keeping the construction industry and pubs going refuse to work and join in an insurrection, the World desends into 1000 years of peace and contentment under the benevolent rule of the Celts.....:D

NHBL
November 16th, 2007, 03:46 AM
See if any of Patricial Kennealy's "Keltiad" series are around. As an Earth Ship starts probing stars FAR away, they run into a mighty starship--with a crew that speaks Gaelic..and came from Earth...

MrP
November 16th, 2007, 01:14 PM
You suck even as a joke thats insensitive

It's insensitive to suggest teasingly that a large number of people worldwide claim to be Irish, despite never having visited Ireland, never having met anyone Irish, having about as much Irish blood as most of the "Hated English," and despite having so little connection to Ireland that just about all they can associate with it is Guinness and Jameson's? Right. :D

67th Tigers
November 16th, 2007, 03:02 PM
Ha apparently you all have not realized it yet, but there is a an Irish Empire that rules the world. Its called the US of A.

The one with an English American president?

Incidently, P, the average Englishman is 1/10th Irish (although by genes the average Irishman is 1/2 English), the average American is 1/33rd Irish...

Canis Lupus
November 16th, 2007, 05:21 PM
Well, my mothers maiden name is Ramsey, so I think I cam accurately claim some Irish ancestry without being too much of a poesuer...
Besides, the Irish rock!

Farfromhome
November 16th, 2007, 06:14 PM
The one with an English American president?

Soon it will be a German American Female president but america will always have an Irish heart.

LordInsane
November 16th, 2007, 06:16 PM
Well, my mothers maiden name is Ramsey, so I think I cam accurately claim some Irish ancestry without being too much of a poesuer...
Besides, the Irish rock!
Yes, their stones are of an unusually high quality...
Oh, you mean the Irish are really good? Why didn't you just say that?:D

kellineil
November 16th, 2007, 06:45 PM
As I believe I said to one of my Irish friends once when we were discussing Irish Americans

"Hell, my gran was Irish. That means if I was American I'd be Irish!" :D

I'm English btw

Canis Lupus
November 16th, 2007, 07:18 PM
Yes, their stones are of an unusually high quality...
Oh, you mean the Irish are really good? Why didn't you just say that?:D
??????:confused::confused:

Dan1988
November 16th, 2007, 07:26 PM
Well on my [maternal] grandmother's side, her maiden name was "Conley". We don't know if the family was originally from Cork or Galway - I'm thinking Cork.

Then again, there's also a bit of Welsh in there - there are actually people in the geneaology with the last name of "Davies", and one of them was a Freemason.

The Dean
November 16th, 2007, 10:59 PM
Besides, the Irish rock!

Of course they do!

You would rock a bit if you had to drink all of that Guinness and ersatz whiskey.

Rocano
November 16th, 2007, 11:06 PM
It's insensitive to suggest teasingly that a large number of people worldwide claim to be Irish, despite never having visited Ireland, never having met anyone Irish, having about as much Irish blood as most of the "Hated English," and despite having so little connection to Ireland that just about all they can associate with it is Guinness and Jameson's? Right. :D
Heah i dont know if that was meant for me but i go to Ireland alot

Hermanubis
November 17th, 2007, 04:07 AM
Ha apparently you all have not realized it yet, but there is a an Irish Empire that rules the world. Its called the US of A.

More like Anglo-German Empire.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=14562&d=1150831786

Tyr
November 17th, 2007, 08:28 AM
Soon it will be a German American Female president but america will always have an Irish heart.

I wouldn't call Hilary German American. At least one of her grandparents is British.
And German Americans are a lot cooler then Irish Americans and don't moan on about it all the time :P

Calgacus
November 17th, 2007, 08:48 AM
Well, my mothers maiden name is Ramsey, so I think I cam accurately claim some Irish ancestry without being too much of a poesuer...
Besides, the Irish rock!

Well, apart from the fact that Ramsey is an English name....

Calgacus
November 17th, 2007, 08:52 AM
We ah...wiped out the original inhabitents to a large degree:o

Linguistically, you mean. "Wiped out" rather suggests ethnic cleansing, and I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that.

As far as anyone can tell, the Dalriada aristocracy effectively took over the main power centres of the Picts, probably peacefully, which would suggest some Picts remaining in positions of power. Then over a couple of centuries, Q-Celtic Scots replaced P-Celtic Pictish as the language of court and commerce.

Wanderlust
November 17th, 2007, 09:12 AM
This thread is incredible!

People falling over themselves to claim Irishness!

My Mum is Irish, (and my Dad half-Irish) and I used to live there, yet if anyone calls me Irish, I feel the urge to hit them :mad:

Nekromans
November 17th, 2007, 10:15 AM
Well, apart from the fact that Ramsey is an English name....

Smith is an Irish name, right?

Canis Lupus
November 17th, 2007, 06:04 PM
I've always heard that it was Scotch/Irish.
Isnt the English one RamsAy, not Ey?

Dan1988
November 17th, 2007, 10:53 PM
Well I know that "Davies" is Welsh, and my [maternal] grandmother's maiden name - Conley - is Irish (albeit a botched version of "Connolly").

SRT
November 17th, 2007, 11:11 PM
I'll be honest -- I've never understood your average American's fascination with Ireland. Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with the place, I'm sure it's a wonderful country and I'd love to visit there sometime -- but I'm also completely aware that I have no Irish ancestry whatsoever. It's just strange how much... faux-Irish nationalism you'll find over here.

A few weeks ago it actually came to something unexpectedly unpleasant. One of my roommates is one of your faux-Irish Americans (I don't know how he's set up ethnically, though I'm sure his family has been in America since at least the mid-19th century, I heard this from his father...) and was going off on one of his silly rants about how the English are eeevil.

So, I decided that, hell, if someone who's 1/32nd Irish and knows nothing about Irish history can feel Irish nationalism, then someone who's 1/8th English and has been studying English history for longer than your average American can damn well defend the English. So, I said something to the effect of, "Well, it's not exactly our fault we conquered you so easily -- the land was practically unused, and we were used to fighting real enemies like the French or the Scottish. Besides, you clearly had the wrong ideas about the nature of Christianity and needed to be put to the sword." Up until then I had thought it was all in good fun, but my roommate actually started yelling and swearing and acting like he was actually offended. I was pretty shocked. I apologized, of course, but was still surprised by how excessively he overreacted.

And yes, this guy is also proud of his Scottish ancestry... Because Scotland and Ireland are practically the same place. And he never hesitates to put in a few digs on the Welsh or the English. I have a hard time taking him seriously anymore, though, as he also claims to be Native American. A very ethnically confused young man.

VT45
November 17th, 2007, 11:26 PM
See Map Continuation.

The Dean
November 17th, 2007, 11:33 PM
I'm now going to play three reels a slip jig and a polka, and I defy anybody to to tell me when one finishes and the next starts.

de-de-diddly-dum-de-dum-de-de-diddly-dum-de-de and so on and so forth......

Calgacus
November 18th, 2007, 03:41 AM
I've always heard that it was Scotch/Irish.
Isnt the English one RamsAy, not Ey?

No, "Ramsay" is Scottish (AFAIK) and "Ramsey" English. Which isn't to say that she wasn't Irish - plenty of Irish Smiths and Morgans and Hamiltons and Kennedys (Scottish name). It's just that it isn't an Irish name as such. I think a lot of people confuse these things, as so many Scots and English migrated to Ireland, then a few generations later, on to America, taking their Scottish and English names with them.

Calgacus
November 18th, 2007, 03:43 AM
I'll be honest -- I've never understood your average American's fascination with Ireland. Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with the place, I'm sure it's a wonderful country and I'd love to visit there sometime -- but I'm also completely aware that I have no Irish ancestry whatsoever. It's just strange how much... faux-Irish nationalism you'll find over here.

A few weeks ago it actually came to something unexpectedly unpleasant. One of my roommates is one of your faux-Irish Americans (I don't know how he's set up ethnically, though I'm sure his family has been in America since at least the mid-19th century, I heard this from his father...) and was going off on one of his silly rants about how the English are eeevil.

So, I decided that, hell, if someone who's 1/32nd Irish and knows nothing about Irish history can feel Irish nationalism, then someone who's 1/8th English and has been studying English history for longer than your average American can damn well defend the English. So, I said something to the effect of, "Well, it's not exactly our fault we conquered you so easily -- the land was practically unused, and we were used to fighting real enemies like the French or the Scottish. Besides, you clearly had the wrong ideas about the nature of Christianity and needed to be put to the sword." Up until then I had thought it was all in good fun, but my roommate actually started yelling and swearing and acting like he was actually offended. I was pretty shocked. I apologized, of course, but was still surprised by how excessively he overreacted.

And yes, this guy is also proud of his Scottish ancestry... Because Scotland and Ireland are practically the same place. And he never hesitates to put in a few digs on the Welsh or the English. I have a hard time taking him seriously anymore, though, as he also claims to be Native American. A very ethnically confused young man.

It's crazy. I'm Scottish, of Scots, English and Irish ancestry, but I don't see any of those as unique or better than anyone else. I don't have any particular pride in being Scottish, as that would implicitly suggest that other nationalities were inferior, which I do not believe.

MrP
November 18th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Heah i dont know if that was meant for me but i go to Ireland alot

Well, the dig at Americans calling themselves Irish applies to the vast majority of those who do, not necessarily to you. However, my main point was that you were getting pissed with Thande for saying something nobody would reasonably take offence at.

This thread is incredible!

People falling over themselves to claim Irishness!

My Mum is Irish, (and my Dad half-Irish) and I used to live there, yet if anyone calls me Irish, I feel the urge to hit them :mad:

Stables and horses, eh, Field Marshall the Duchess of Wanderlust? ;)

I've always heard that it was Scotch/Irish.
Isnt the English one RamsAy, not Ey?

No, "Ramsay" is Scottish (AFAIK) and "Ramsey" English. Which isn't to say that she wasn't Irish - plenty of Irish Smiths and Morgans and Hamiltons and Kennedys (Scottish name). It's just that it isn't an Irish name as such. I think a lot of people confuse these things, as so many Scots and English migrated to Ireland, then a few generations later, on to America, taking their Scottish and English names with them.

I didn't even know that difference existed. Mum's forever pouring through Parish records in her genealogical questing, and spellings of surnames go all over the shop dependent on pronunciation, literacy of the vicar and so on. I wouldnae be surprised if Pratchett had found the name Magrat in an old Parish Register. ;)

It's crazy. I'm Scottish, of Scots, English and Irish ancestry, but I don't see any of those as unique or better than anyone else. I don't have any particular pride in being Scottish, as that would implicitly suggest that other nationalities were inferior, which I do not believe.

Oh, I don't think there's anything wrong in being a bit proud of one's nation's achievements. It doesn't mean one has to hold other nations inferior. One can be distantly proud of Wellesley's men beating the French in Spain without having owt against the French or the Spanish as peoples. Of course, this ties nicely into the thread since he was born in Ireland (though see above ;) ) and had plenty of Irish troops under him. :D

Calgacus
November 18th, 2007, 03:54 PM
I didn't even know that difference existed. Mum's forever pouring through Parish records in her genealogical questing, and spellings of surnames go all over the shop dependent on pronunciation, literacy of the vicar and so on. I wouldnae be surprised if Pratchett had found the name Magrat in an old Parish Register. ;)

Yeah, my own surname has several variations. I'm sure the spelling varies greatly for Ramsey/Ramsay, but suffice to say it's a name that has its root in Old English, not in Old Gaelic.

Oh, I don't think there's anything wrong in being a bit proud of one's nation's achievements. It doesn't mean one has to hold other nations inferior. One can be distantly proud of Wellesley's men beating the French in Spain without having owt against the French or the Spanish as peoples. Of course, this ties nicely into the thread since he was born in Ireland (though see above ;) ) and had plenty of Irish troops under him. :D

Hmm. Maybe. I do joke with my wife about how we kicked America's arse in 1812, but then again, I'll have no hesitation in becoming American if or when the opportunity arises.

MrP
November 18th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Hmm. Maybe. I do joke with my wife about how we kicked America's arse in 1812, but then again, I'll have no hesitation in becoming American if or when the opportunity arises.

Oh, same here. Laura can relate my teasing about Americana continues even off ah.com, but I don't have anything against the proud people of Yankeestan - not in any matter other than that which annoys me about people everywhere, viz. certainty about the wrong things. Wrong as defined by me, naturally, so the UK is also still in the doghouse, as they say. ;)

Fellatio Nelson
November 18th, 2007, 04:06 PM
You suck even as a joke thats insensitive

Come here so I can oppress you, Oirish.

Oh wait... you'd need your AMERICAN passport to get into Ireland.



I know some Americans whose ancestors came from the UK and they visit the UK very regularly for business and pleasure. Does this somehow make them British, with a supreme insight into British culture? Or is that silly and something only a silly person would say?

Calgacus
November 18th, 2007, 04:11 PM
Come here so I can oppress you, Oirish.

Oh wait... you'd need your AMERICAN passport to get into Ireland.

Actually, if his cousin is Irish, then his grandparent may have been Irish-born, meaning he might have an Irish passport under the Grandfather rule. I could have one, but there doesn't seem a whole lot of point....

MrP
November 18th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Actually, if his cousin is Irish, then his grandparent may have been Irish-born, meaning he might have an Irish passport under the Grandfather rule. I could have one, but there doesn't seem a whole lot of point....

Hm, I wonder if I could claim an Indonesian passport . . . :D

Fellatio Nelson
November 18th, 2007, 04:13 PM
Actually, if his cousin is Irish, then his grandparent may have been Irish-born, meaning he might have an Irish passport under the Grandfather rule. I could have one, but there doesn't seem a whole lot of point....

So he's as Irish as most of the Irish Football Team? That's pretty Brit... erm... Irish. :rolleyes: :D

Isn't that the rule under which people have to pay quite a bit for their second passport, when the Irish decided to cash in on the Plastics?

Fellatio Nelson
November 18th, 2007, 04:15 PM
Hm, I wonder if I could claim an Indonesian passport . . . :D

I think we should all claim to be Oriish and settle on Craggy Island.

Calgacus
November 18th, 2007, 04:17 PM
Hm, I wonder if I could claim an Indonesian passport . . . :D

Good luck with that...."Er, hello? Mr Indonesian Consul? I am the descendant of one of the Colonial Oppressors (tm) and would like to apply for an Indonesian passport, the better to gain discounts at tourist attractions in your...I mean our!...country. I may also use my dual nationality to set up an import-export business in plastic-based couture which I feel would prove most suitable for the euqatorial climate of your....I mean our!...country....Mr Consul? Hello? Hello?"

Wanderlust
November 18th, 2007, 04:19 PM
Stables and horses, eh, Field Marshall the Duchess of Wanderlust? ;)

Very much so ;)

And I agree with Calgacus' points about this silly nationalism. I hate all these local council 'tick your ethnic group box' forms. I normally just scribble over them and put 'British'.

Calgacus
November 18th, 2007, 04:19 PM
So he's as Irish as most of the Irish Football Team? That's pretty Brit... erm... Irish. :rolleyes: :D

Isn't that the rule under which people have to pay quite a bit for their second passport, when the Irish decided to cash in on the Plastics?

I'm not sure. One of my uncles (the crazy one) has taken out Irish citizenship. The passport looks just about the same anyway....

Fellatio Nelson
November 18th, 2007, 04:35 PM
I'm not sure. One of my uncles (the crazy one) has taken out Irish citizenship. The passport looks just about the same anyway....

And it's completely superfluous if you're British* to say nothing of being an EU citizen.

* Because we obviously hate each other so much, ever since 1922 Brits and Irish have been free to live in either nation as if a native resident.

MrP
November 18th, 2007, 04:44 PM
Good luck with that...."Er, hello? Mr Indonesian Consul? I am the descendant of one of the Colonial Oppressors (tm) and would like to apply for an Indonesian passport, the better to gain discounts at tourist attractions in your...I mean our!...country. I may also use my dual nationality to set up an import-export business in plastic-based couture which I feel would prove most suitable for the euqatorial climate of your....I mean our!...country....Mr Consul? Hello? Hello?"

He was too young to be a Colonial Oppressor (TM) - not that that fact would be any kind of argument against the Indonesian government!* ;) Though now I wonder how that would work for obtaining Dutch citizenship, given that he wasn't born in Holland (IIRC), and seems to have spent barely any time there during his life (Indonesia, the UK and South Africa were where he spent the most time). I can see why he settled in this damp climate, given that he had pale red hair, and must've been sunburned badly in every other country he lived, poor man! :D

He was very up on integrating into British society, so never taught his children Dutch (which Mum's long regretted). Interestingly, Flocc mentioned in a separate discussion that immigrants and immediate descendants of immigrants to England would be more likely to call themselves British than English - which is certainly the case with Mum, and my mate, Tammy - whose parents are from Vietnam. I must have Mum ask her siblings.

* Rather less amusingly, the Japanese-supported Indonesian separatist chaps did intern a load of my distant relatives (who subsequently relocated to Oz) for the whole conflict.

Thande
November 18th, 2007, 04:46 PM
I can see why he settled in this damp climate, given that he had pale red hair, and must've been sunburned badly in every other country he lived, poor man! :D

Your grandfather was Sam Carsten?? :eek: :D

MrP
November 18th, 2007, 04:47 PM
Your grandfather was Sam Carsten?? :eek: :D

:D :D :D

I shall go take a photo of a photo of him and Oma. brb

EDIT: linky (http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1354142#post1354142)

simonbp
November 18th, 2007, 07:47 PM
It's a matter of how you grow up. My dad's English (Canterbury) and my mother's Irish (Mayo), but being born in Ontario (which is in self-denial about just how English it is) and growing up there and Oxfordshire, I always felt more English. That said, I've got several hundred times more Irish relatives (how is that not surprising?), about half of which live in England. So, I guess I'm about as Irish as the Republic...

As for the real point of this thread, the answer is simple: get England Catholic. Say, some way, some how, random act of mass political stupidity, Bonnie Prince Charles wins England. He purges the government, and brings in a whole ton of Irish loyalists. With continuing Protestant threats, this evolves into a perpetual Irish governing class. Simultaneously, the Catholic Kings create a powerful Irish nobility, granting them estates in England and Scotland. (Basically the reverse of OTL) Eventually, the "British" Empire effectively becomes the Irish Empire...

Simon ;)

le.Singe
November 18th, 2007, 09:23 PM
I don't have an ounce of Irish blood in my body, but I'm from Boston, which means that every once in a while I get sudden bursts of completely unreasonable "Irish" pride. Then, I wake up in some pub in Southie, singing along to some dreadful Dropkick Murphys song, doing a jig. I yell, "my God, what have I done!!!" in a dramatic voice, and tear off the green "Fuck You, I'm Irish!" shirt I suddenly realize I am wearing (the apostrophe in "I'm" is in the shape of a shamrock) and hightail it away from the handgun-wielding Irish mobsters I learned about in "The Departed," ducking to avoid the bullets.

:shudders:

That was an awful night. :D

Dan1988
November 18th, 2007, 09:48 PM
I think we should all claim to be Oriish and settle on Craggy Island.

That is until the north end of Craggy Island falls down to the sea.:D

sunsurf
November 19th, 2007, 01:47 AM
I don't have much to contribute to this fascinating discussion of Irishness :):rolleyes:, except for this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_White_(author)

" 'The Silent Stars Go By' is an excellent example of alternative history. A Gaelic visitor to Alexandria, Egypt, realizes the industrial potential of a primitive steam engine constructed by Hero. The resulting society launches a starship in the year 1492."

The result is an Irish empire just like Thande wanted. :)

mutt
November 20th, 2007, 01:52 AM
I seem to be the actual only "Irish" person here, is it ok if I say I have no problem with the Brits?, nice people, have to beat them in Football/rugby though...BTW we also have a certain...distaste for plastic paddies/barstool republican types you often get in the US/Canada/Oz ect...still have to win at football though with our English/Scotish players;)

with the whole EU citizen thing ect it doesn't seem to be such a huge obstacle anymore plus our increasing wealth and economic success, alot of the inferiority complex that drove anti British feeling is melting way...we feel more able to look bigger countries in the eye as equals, as strange as that sounds, and the UK has often worked with us in the EU, frankly they are probably our closest friends now.