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View Full Version : WI Charles's VII son Louis had died by 1461?


Don_Giorgio
November 2nd, 2007, 10:39 AM
In 1458 Charles's VII son the dauphin Louis (the future Louis XI) became estranged to his father resulting in his banish in Dauphiny under the protection of Philippe Duke of Burgundy...
In OTL while Charles VII lay dying in July 1461 he called back his son...
WI Louis had died by 1461? Either by disease or by an assassin's blade?
By that time he had no heirs as his son Louis died in 1460 his other son Joachim died in 1459 and his daughter Louise died in 1460 and his daughter Anne (the future Duchess of Bourbon) born in April 1461...
If Louis predeceased his father who gets the French throne? Could the English under Edward IV invade again in France claiming the French Crown?

fhaessig
November 2nd, 2007, 12:53 PM
The Great Duchy of Occident dominates Western Europe.......

I really should finish my TL on this ( actually Louis doesn't die in my PoD. He's just retarded due to a slow midwife ).

Don_Giorgio
November 2nd, 2007, 12:56 PM
I think we need Grey Wolf's guidance here...

Sgt Detritus
November 2nd, 2007, 01:53 PM
I think we need Grey Wolf's guidance here...

Surely if Louis died before Charles VII then I would Charles' second son Charles de Valois, Duc de Berry would become the heir

Don_Giorgio
November 2nd, 2007, 06:28 PM
Doesnt this conflict gives pretext to Edward IV to invade to France???

Don_Giorgio
November 3rd, 2007, 07:52 AM
Besides the Duke of Berry was always a sickly person... he had a venereal disease and tuberculosis... he wouldnt have reigned long... let alone produce an heir... ok... after Charles VII u have Charles VIII until 1472 (when he died in OTL)
After him who gets the throne?

gleizou
November 3rd, 2007, 12:06 PM
Louis d'Orléans, OTL Louis XII, but this time he's only 12...

I guess the burgundian party (Charles the Bold at this time) would be the real power in France..... :eek:

Don_Giorgio
November 3rd, 2007, 12:16 PM
Could Charles the Bold staged a coup d'etat and seize the throne of France for himself?

gleizou
November 3rd, 2007, 12:37 PM
No, I don't think so: he doesn't have the hereditary legitimacy for that: and it's very important at this time...

Maybe he seizes the REAL political power in France (serving as "Protector" for his young cousin...

Or he allies himself with Edward IV, gives him the french crown, receiving in return Artois, Flanders, Champagne, and the duchy of Burgundy in full sovereignety, creating his own Kingdom of Burgundy with his other "imperial" possessions.... :cool:

The unknown factot in this scheme is the attitude of the House of Anjou (king René of Naples, duke of Lorraine, count of Provence), the other french territorial power at this time... :confused:

Don_Giorgio
November 4th, 2007, 07:51 AM
I think the alliance with Edward IV is more propable... it alters English history too... as Edward IV can send his brothers over to France so they wouldnt bother him with rebellions and stuff...