Nazi state within a state

[Sir John A.]

I started a similar thread before about the Putsch succeeding but I'd like to focus on this particular scenario;

The POD is the Beer Hall Putsch succeeds and the Nazis take over Munich, use it as a base to rival the Weimar government in Berlin and try to expand their control to the rest of Bavaria. Fighting ensues between the S.A. and the Reichswehr. Then, Hitler and the Berlin government come to some sort of compromise where the Nazis are allowed to keep Munich and/or Bavaria while still being part of the Weimar Republic, a state within a state similar to the Hezbollah controlled territory in Lebanon.

So what if that happens?

[clifton]

hitler would likely come faster in power.

[Hannibal.Caesar]

hitler would likely come faster in power.

I think the opposite would happen. If Hitler and the Nazis were able to have control of Bavaria and/or Munich, their depravities would be that much more apparent that much sooner. Britain and France would be displeased quite early on at this fissure in Weimar Germany, and I think if Hitler and his goons would have stepped too far out of line they would have either invaded or pressured the Germans to topple Hitler. Nevertheless, I don't think that would have been needed. I would like to think that the German people would have been able to get enough of a taste of Hitler's madness this way to not vote him into office.

[NHBL]

France might love the idea of Germany being fragmented. After all, a divided nation is less of a threat.

[alephh]

Nazis could have created a impression of "good rule" (=less jobless, etc) (at least by propaganda) and gain (a lot of) support all around Germany. But would they have been able to take over Weimar, hard to say - they may have been turned into a "too local" - phenomena.

Or how about a civil war (nazi states creating a sort of opposite: communist states).

Or complete but peaceful break-down of Weimar/Germany.

I think it's a very good question: how many nations would have been happy about divided Germany? Many.


_

[NapoleonXIV]

I think the opposite would happen. If Hitler and the Nazis were able to have control of Bavaria and/or Munich, their depravities would be that much more apparent that much sooner. Britain and France would be displeased quite early on at this fissure in Weimar Germany, and I think if Hitler and his goons would have stepped too far out of line they would have either invaded or pressured the Germans to topple Hitler. Nevertheless, I don't think that would have been needed. I would like to think that the German people would have been able to get enough of a taste of Hitler's madness this way to not vote him into office.

Hitler never was voted into office. He had the greatest majority in a very fragmented electorate but most people had still voted for someone else.

Nevertheless you're probably right. Hitler in one state would have to govern as well as rule. He wouldn't have been able to sluff off things from one sector to the other so as to create the illusion of prosperity and, more importantly, would have been unable to support his state by looting the Jews.

I disagree that outsiders would topple him. If anything, France and England might help him, seeing him as a counterweight to Stalin, as they did in OTL

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

I started a similar thread before about the Putsch succeeding but I'd like to focus on this particular scenario;

The POD is the Beer Hall Putsch succeeds and the Nazis take over Munich, use it as a base to rival the Weimar government in Berlin and try to expand their control to the rest of Bavaria. Fighting ensues between the S.A. and the Reichswehr. Then, Hitler and the Berlin government come to some sort of compromise where the Nazis are allowed to keep Munich and/or Bavaria while still being part of the Weimar Republic, a state within a state similar to the Hezbollah controlled territory in Lebanon.

So what if that happens?
I for One Welcome Our New Bavarian Overlords ...

Seriously, I Agree with The General Consensus for Once ...

Hitler is Like a Bad Taste in Munich's Mouth, he Gets Spit Out By The End of The Week!

:p

[Sir John A.]

Or how about a civil war (nazi states creating a sort of opposite: communist states).

Or complete but peaceful break-down of Weimar/Germany.


_

Interesting. If the Communists get their own state within a state, that could result in Germany breaking up and being divided into three separate states, a Nazi one, a Communist one and a Weimar remnant. The three Germany's could coexist peacefully or they could fight each other in a civil war for complete control over the country with the Weimar remant supported by the U.K. and France, the Communist Germany supported by the Soviets and the Nazi one, being Fascist is supported by Italy.

[Max Sinister]

The Communists (if) would have the best chances to take power in Saxony+Thuringia, the Ruhr area and Hamburg. However, the Weimar government would do everything to keep them in the fold, even if they let nazi Bavaria go (which is very improbable in itself).

[Alayta]

A nazi bavaria is especially improbabale, as the bavarians had a communist state within the state just 4 years ago.

[alt_historian]

A nazi bavaria is especially improbabale, as the bavarians had a communist state within the state just 4 years ago.

And? Look at Hungary during the same period. They went through a Soviet Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Soviet_Republic) and then into a kingdom/regency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Hungary_%281920-1944%29) under Horthy within a year. And Horthy... well, at least should be thought of as authoritarian.

[Max Sinister]

Yeah, why? The Communists were a minority in Bavaria. If anything, the Räterepublik drove the Bavarians further to the right.

[Alayta]

it shows, that bavaria and the bavarian was not very tempted by extremism.