What if questions

[Confederatepatriot1025]

What if WWIII was fought between the CSA and the USA?
What if the cold war went hot
What if Japan launched an all out nuclear attack on america and shattered it's ability to fight and then embarked on a war of conquest?
Theorys and opions please

[Anaxagoras]

Theorys and opions please

I have two opinions. First, an individual thread should focus on an individual question, so as to avoid clutter and confusion. Second, you need to work on your spelling.

[Grey Wolf]

So Japan is the first to develop nuclear weapons and has allied with the CSA after a CSA-USA Cold War has broken out into a second world war, although we don't quite know what the first one was ? Perhaps and presumably the initial ACW went global and is termed the first world war, coz otherwise the second war in N America wouldnt get the term WW2 attached to it... Could be worth thinking about...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[aktarian]

So Japan is the first to develop nuclear weapons and has allied with the CSA after a CSA-USA Cold War has broken out into a second world war, although we don't quite know what the first one was ? Perhaps and presumably the initial ACW went global and is termed the first world war, coz otherwise the second war in N America wouldnt get the term WW2 attached to it... Could be worth thinking about...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

it could be Turtledove's series TL. CSA wins ACW, WW1 is like OTL's but with CSA and US. Ditto for WW2 then cold war between US and CSA.

[Grey Wolf]

Actually, I quite like this idea !

Now, if we make the ACW go global what can we do ? We need to drag enough countries in on both sides to make it a longer war, or at least not a shorter one, and one where its relatively evenly matched.

Then it needs to create such significant changes that there is no GLOBAL war again till the 1940s

And by then Japan has the best nuclear physicists in the world

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Grey Wolf]

it could be Turtledove's series TL. CSA wins ACW, WW1 is like OTL's but with CSA and US. Ditto for WW2 then cold war between US and CSA.

Oh yeah... Oh well, LOL !

It sparked my brain briefly there for a minute

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[robertp6165]

Actually, I quite like this idea !

Now, if we make the ACW go global what can we do ? We need to drag enough countries in on both sides to make it a longer war, or at least not a shorter one, and one where its relatively evenly matched.

Then it needs to create such significant changes that there is no GLOBAL war again till the 1940s

And by then Japan has the best nuclear physicists in the world

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Oh yeah... Oh well, LOL !

It sparked my brain briefly there for a minute

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Don't let it stop...this is a good idea, and very different from TL-191.

How do we get the ACW global? How about this for starters...Lee wins at Antietam (or some other alternate battle of the Maryland campaign of 1862). The United States, unlike in TL-191, does not collapse like a house of cards. Britain and France recognize the Confederacy and become involved militarily in America, draining their military resources. Russia takes the opportunity to attack the Ottomans again while France and Britain are too busy to intervene...or so it thinks. France and Britain declare war on Russia. Russia formally allies with the United States.

Now, any ideas how to get Prussia and/or Austria involved? Preferably on the side of Russia?

[BrotherToAll]

Now, any ideas how to get Prussia and Austria involved?

To counter England and France they begin to pump weapons and money into the Union with the Prussians also sending "mercenaries" to help the Union?

[Grey Wolf]

Problem is it becomes too much of a non-runner if we postulate Russia as being reckless like this. There would need to be some reason, some spark because after thew Crimean War Russia has been painstakingly rebuilding itself, and won't throw it away.

I'm wondering about Poland - there was a Polish revolt around this period, and France of course likes to champion the Poles, whilst the Prussians were never happy with that... The Austrians kinda played it down the middle

But to make it an Amero-centric war that just sparks this small crisis into a bigger one...?

Mexico is always thrown into the mix in such situations, maybe we can add in Spain under Isabella's New Imperialism...?

Ideas throbbing

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[robertp6165]

Problem is it becomes too much of a non-runner if we postulate Russia as being reckless like this. There would need to be some reason, some spark because after thew Crimean War Russia has been painstakingly rebuilding itself, and won't throw it away.

That's true, but by this time they have had 6-7 years to rebuild. And if Britain and France are deeply involved in America, maybe the Dardanelles looks just too tempting....

I'm wondering about Poland - there was a Polish revolt around this period, and France of course likes to champion the Poles, whilst the Prussians were never happy with that... The Austrians kinda played it down the middle.

That's good! That might be the catalyst to have Prussia and maybe Austria enter the war. Austria also had ambitions in the Balkans...maybe they decide that allying with Russia will allow them to achieve some of these.

But to make it an Amero-centric war that just sparks this small crisis into a bigger one...?

Mexico is always thrown into the mix in such situations, maybe we can add in Spain under Isabella's New Imperialism...?

That's definitely worth considering. However, whether it is an "Amero-centric war" or just a series of loosely related wars that become merged into one, the effect is still the same...an ACW that goes global, which is what we want.

[ironram]

Assuming we're taking the above ideas and running with them, then we have the Prussians joining the side of the U. S. To make the war even bigger, how about we have the Prussians take a chance and gamble for Schleswig-Holstein, a few years earlier than OTL, perchance dragging Denmark into the Confederate fold (however loosely)? Granted, this is unlikely, but interesting to postulate. Denmark on the side of the Confederates could assist England and France in that the Prussians and Russians will be bottled up in the Baltic (though, I have no reliable knowledge of the combined capacity of the Imperial Russian and Prussian navies--did Prussia even have a notable navy?), liberating Atlantic transit of troops and materiel for the Confederates.

[Mike Stearns]

What if WWIII was fought between the CSA and the USA?


Now there's an ATL that I've not heard before. Hopefully this isn't going to be fought with nukes because that could get VERY messy.

[robertp6165]

Assuming we're taking the above ideas and running with them, then we have the Prussians joining the side of the U. S. To make the war even bigger, how about we have the Prussians take a chance and gamble for Schleswig-Holstein, a few years earlier than OTL, perchance dragging Denmark into the Confederate fold (however loosely)? Granted, this is unlikely, but interesting to postulate. Denmark on the side of the Confederates could assist England and France in that the Prussians and Russians will be bottled up in the Baltic (though, I have no reliable knowledge of the combined capacity of the Imperial Russian and Prussian navies--did Prussia even have a notable navy?), liberating Atlantic transit of troops and materiel for the Confederates.

I like it! As for the Prussian Navy at this time, it was not really a factor and did not perform well during the OTL Schleswig-Holstein war.

The main problem with your scenario is that if Prussia goes for Schleswig Holstein, it means a split between Prussia and Austria. So lets look at what we get here. We have...

--An alliance group, consisting of Britain, France, Denmark, Austria, the Ottoman Empire, and the Confederacy (and probably several anti-Prussian German states), at war with...
--A second alliance group consisting of Russia, Prussia, and the Union.

Of course, if Austria joins the Franco/British alliance group, then probably Italy joins the Russo/Prussian alliance group in a grab for Venetia, the Tyrol, and Istria. Perhaps we also see Greece joining the Russo-Prussian group against the Ottomans, as well.

So if that is the case, we have the second alliance group consisting of Russia, Prussia, the Union, Italy, and Greece.

If, as Grey Wolf suggested, we can also get the Spanish involved, this will indeed be an interesting scenario.

[Ace Venom]

Prussia would likely remain neutral in the conflict. Bismarck will become Chancellor shortly after the Battle of Antietam and he was more interested in unifying Germany than getting involved in a conflict that could jeopardize that. Austria probably wouldn't go to war either, but I wouldn't put it past either Austria or Russia at the time to try to take advantage of the conflict by bullying the Ottomans. Such an action may even play into Bismarck's favor in making Prussia the leading state in Germany.

[Grey Wolf]

Of course, I misread the thing didn't I ! I thought it said WW2 would be between the CSA and the USA... Oh well !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf