View Full Version : Earlier English Colonization of North America - NOT Roanoke
January 4th, 2004, 04:02 AM
In July of 1578, armed with a royal charter, Gilbert Humphrey and his half-brother Walter Raleigh sail to America with five ships and about 150 men, women, and children. On the thirteenth night of the trip, the small fleet of ships enter a fogbank and emerge a day later...
*note: In OTL, this fleet was scattered and forced to return to England by a Spanish warship, which, in this ATL, it avoids in the fogbank.
Now, with the ships approaching the continent, the colonists look forward to a new life in a new place. In late August, the ships disembark their passengers on the shores of Delaware Bay. The colony just may have been founded early enough to survive through the abandonment forced upon them in 1588 by the Spanish Armada. By the time the Armada sets sail, the colony at Port Elizabeth has nearly 1,000 inhabitants and even a small contingent (about 75-100) Royal soldiers.
Now what happens?
David S Poepoe
January 4th, 2004, 04:40 AM
Just a clarification. There was a historical Port Elizabeth that had been settled and the Spanish forced the English to abandon it. The POD is this location be settled X Amount years earlier.
Would there be one settlement or a main settlement with a few others up and down the coastline or river and further inland?
January 4th, 2004, 04:46 AM
Sorry. By my Port Elizabeth, I'm talking about somewhere along the coast of OTL Delaware, maybe Dover. It's completely separate from OTL's Port Elizabeth. The founding of it is based on a colonization fleet forced to turn around in 1578 in OTL.
Anyways, after ten years, I'd say there's probably one main settlement (which we'll call Port Elizabeth; pop. 1,000) and one or two others, really satellites of Port Elizabeth (we'll call them Brighton and Cardiff; pop. 200 each).
Between the three, in 1588, we'll have 100 Royal troops, a handful of ships, mostly completely unarmed and one or two with a single bow-chaser or something of the like.
Also, Port Elizabeth will probably have a small fort, most likely made out of local woods.
January 4th, 2004, 05:13 AM
Well the major problem the town is going to have is the natives. Assuming they colonist don't F up the situation like they ussualy tend to do, I doubt your going to have a friendly relationship once the disease kicks in. And then theirs the first couple of winters which are always disasterouse to new colonies. Unless theirs some kind of annual or biannual trips to the colony for the first three of four years I don't see much hope of it surviving. But even then I would say that in 1588 their would be about 750 with no smaller towns around it but many farms with a tottal of maybe 100. I don't think their would be a fort but the town would be enclosed with a wooden wall but guarded by only local millitia.
January 4th, 2004, 05:21 AM
Maybe colony of Savannah in Georgia
January 4th, 2004, 05:28 AM
what is up with your obsession witht he south?
January 4th, 2004, 05:28 AM
The Port Elizabeth of my ATL was founded by Humphrey Gilbert. I'm not sure how much you know about him but he was VERY entusiastic about the colonization of North America. Before he died, in a shipwreck, he had planned upwards of 5 colonization attempts to North America. In TTL, I easily see him arranging for at least 4 or 5 trips to the colony over the course of the decade. I have the first trip at about 150 people. The next four I'm saying about 200 or 250 people each. Incl. those sailors and a few Royal soldiers he arranged to receive from Elizabeth, who was an admirer of his, I have the population set around 1,300. I don't think that's too bad an estimate. The first three decades of immigration to OTL Virginia brought about 20,000 people over. That's between 6 and 7 thousand a decade, substantially more than I have coming over.
January 4th, 2004, 06:07 AM
Ussualy in settlements people don't start arriving until theirs money to be made. One of the major products int he south was tobaco which drew thousands of settelers every year. And although Delware is okay for tobaco growing it isn't nearly as good as places such as Maryland and Virginia, limiting its appeal. Furthermore the Spanish armada will at least put a cramp on voyages tot he colonies for months until the war ends or many of the ships could have been sunk by the patrolling spanish ships.
March 5th, 2004, 06:58 AM
given the great circle Route [gulf stream] If it lasts several years the English gold fleet raiders will be stopping to resupply on their way home to England.
Maybe in this TL New Amsterdam will be on the Chesapke. and New Sweden on the Hudson. :rolleyes:
April 10th, 2005, 02:38 PM
Another Intersting Tidbit about Sir Humphrey Gilbert...His Charter said that all settlers should "enjoy all the privileges of free...persons native of England" and that all laws should be close to Enlgish law as possible. Now that was unusual. English men and women would lose no rights when they moved to the new land. They Would be entitled to trial by jury and other English rights. The head of the colony(Sometines call the proprietor, which meand "owner" could not be a dictator.
Sir, Humphery Gilber never got a chance to use his charter: he was lost at sea. His small ship, the Squirrel, was swallowed by a huge Wave, Just before he went under, Gibler was seen reading a book called Utopia, written by Sir Thomas Moore.
Moore's book was written as a kind of joke, With serious thought behind it. Utopia was about an island. Sir Thomas described its people, it's government, and its way of life as bieng close to perfect. English People who could read Greek knw that the word Utopia, actually meant "no place,: and that Utopia didn't Exist. But only a few of Moore's Readers understood Greek. Those Who could Read Greek also knew that the name of the book's sailor hero, Raphael Hythodaldaues meant :skilled in talking nonsense."
But Many People who read Moore's Utopia thought it a description of a real place. One missionary made plans to go there to convert the inhabitants of Utopia, to Christianity.
Sir Humphrey Gilbert could read Greek, and he new there was no real Utopia. But he liked Sir Thomas Moore's Ideas. What If Gilbert's colonies were indead based upon the structure of Moore's Utopia ?
April 11th, 2005, 10:01 AM
Well, with a definite earlier English presence in NA, wouldn't the Spaniards try for some fullscale invasion to clear 'their' land of 'infidels' ?
Hmmm, which tribes inhabited the Delaware coast during the late 16th C ? Of course, wouldn't there have been a Lenni-Lenape presence (later called Delawares after Lord De La Warr), and also Susquehannocks and Algonquian tribes like Nanticokes ?
April 11th, 2005, 09:32 PM
Well im currently doing a Tl where Columbus sailed for England in 1488. That early for you?
April 12th, 2005, 12:42 AM
Dont forget the Colony of New Albion in present day San Francisco Bay...
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