1493: HRE election.

[AJNolte]

We have a HRE election in 1523. For each candidate, please post his religious beliefs and political aspirations. Once we have a complete list of candidates, let's have each elector vote once. If no candidate has a clear majority, the candidate with the fewest votes will be eliminated and a revote conducted. This will continue until such time as one candidate has a clear majority. Note: one need not be an elector to be a candidate for emperor (in fact the Hapsburgs did not control an electorate directly until--I think--the 1600s). However, only electors can vote.

First candidate:
ErnstFrederick of the house of Wettin.

Age: 25.
Position: Duke of Saxony, elector of Saxony.

Religious affiliation: Wettinite.
Personality: pragmatic (some might say ruthless), charismatic.

platform:

1. Supports the maintenance of the Holy Roman Empire's current borders.
2. Supports centralization of the HRE to preserve it's power from French, Ottoman and other possible great power encroachments, and facilitate trade and progress. This includes the creation of a permanent diet for the empire modeled on the estates of Saxony, a universal code of taxes and tolls and administrative reform.
3. Favors political compromise with Papacy, though he is religiously commited to Wettin's doctrines (he himself is of the house of Wettin).
4. Supports an alliance with Russia to counter the Ottoman power in the region, as well as Poland and possibly the Calmarn Union.
5. Supports deepening trade contacts with England through the Hanseatic League, and possible Atlantic expantion into Lower Norasia (though this last interest is more speculative and definitely on the back burner).

[Keenir]

First candidate: Ludwig of the electorate of Upper Frisia (formerly East Frisia),


Age: 25 (born 1498)
Position: made Elector of East Frisia, 1521.

Religious affiliation: Roman Catholic.

Personality: Mildly charismatic, good-natured and open, pious (*at times* exceedingly so, in the sense that profanity is punished by the speaker of the curse word being exiled from Ludwig’s court for a week or two at a time)

platform:
1. Supports border stability of the Holy Roman Empire.
2. Favors only slightly increasing the amount of centralization in the Empire – enough to simplify taxes, but not so much that provincial and feudal domains are interfered with.
3. Favors good relations with the Pope.
4. Is in favor of stronger relations with Burgundy, seeing France and England as counterbalances if the time for such comes. (sees the HRE, Papal State, and Naples as a counterbalance and deterrent to any Alpine thought to broadly adopt heresy)
5. Seeks to call crusade against the Ottomans, but is hesitant to do so if it means there is a risk of the Wettinites (or any heresy – the Wettinites are visible at the time, after all) seizing the Empire from him while he is leading the crusade.

[AJNolte]

Very good.
Any other candidates? Remember, one need not be an elector.

[Analytical Engine]

Very good.
Any other candidates? Remember, one need not be an elector.

In fact, any European Christian ruler (royal or noble) can be nominated/elected.

[The Sicilian]

Still unsure of whether I am continuing, but might as well throw my candidate into the ring:

Candidate: Alphonso III of Sicily, House of Trastamara

Age: 42 (Born 1481)
Position: King of Naples, King of Sicily, King of Jerusalem (INO)

Religious Affiliation: Catholic (Somewhat open to reform)
Personality: Curious, Insatiable appetite for knowledge

Platform:

Supports the Minor extension of the borders, into Southern Italy and Burgundy, if it were willing.
Supports the decentralization of the Empire when it comes to Italy, however Germany could do as it pleases when it comes to that issue.
Strongly supports excellent relations with the Papacy.
Supports an Alliance with Spain and France.
Would support a massive Italian and German joint expedition to the New World [Have you all decided on the name yet?] to found separate colonies.

[Smaug]

I'm not a part of this thread, but wouldn't most of the Electors be better served by choosing a bit more palatable to both sides. Perhaps someone with little political capital, who can't threaten any of the other Electors.

It would be entertaining if some nobody got nominated, and did either horribly or even perhaps quite well. Just a thought.:)

[AJNolte]

So, three candidates, two of them Catholic. Any other Wettinite candidates?

[Keenir]

So, three candidates, two of them Catholic. Any other Wettinite candidates?

I'm tempted to throw in the Junkerist son of the duke of Mantua.:D (but I probably won't)

[pompejus]

First candidate: Ludwig of the electorate of Upper Frisia (formerly East Frisia),


Age: 25 (born 1498)
Position: made Elector of East Frisia, 1521.

Religious affiliation: Roman Catholic.

Personality: Mildly charismatic, good-natured and open, pious (*at times* exceedingly so, in the sense that profanity is punished by the speaker of the curse word being exiled from Ludwig’s court for a week or two at a time)

platform:
1. Supports border stability of the Holy Roman Empire.
2. Favors only slightly increasing the amount of centralization in the Empire – enough to simplify taxes, but not so much that provincial and feudal domains are interfered with.
3. Favors good relations with the Pope.
4. Is in favor of stronger relations with Burgundy, seeing France and England as counterbalances if the time for such comes. (sees the HRE, Papal State, and Naples as a counterbalance and deterrent to any Alpine thought to broadly adopt heresy)
5. Seeks to call crusade against the Ottomans, but is hesitant to do so if it means there is a risk of the Wettinites (or any heresy – the Wettinites are visible at the time, after all) seizing the Empire from him while he is leading the crusade.

He is from East-Frisia? I thought i controlled that part.

Yes, I am now back from my holiday to a too hot Hungary. What did i miss?

[pompejus]

Yes, I am now back from my holiday to a too hot Hungary. What did i miss?

Did 1493 die when i was away? I hope not, i like it.

[marl_d]

it's seem too over the last week...hopfully everyone comes back soon

[Glen]

Bump. Let's dust this off and get it finished pronto!

[Glen]

If no one wants to choose, I can always make an arbitrary decision. But I'd rather we discuss it as previously mentioned.

[Keenir]

If no one wants to choose, I can always make an arbitrary decision. But I'd rather we discuss it as previously mentioned.

I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean by that.

if you mean "go vote", then I say Ludwig!

[pompejus]

Are all elector aware that 1493 has restarted? Actually, who are the electors again (meaning who controls them)? I remember that Cologne was mine. I think Cologne goes for Alphonso III of Sicily. (but I would still like some more explanation about the East -Frisian candidate, I remember that I controlled East-Frisia).

[Glen]

Are all elector aware that 1493 has restarted? Actually, who are the electors again (meaning who controls them)? I remember that Cologne was mine. I think Cologne goes for Alphonso III of Sicily. (but I would still like some more explanation about the East -Frisian candidate, I remember that I controlled East-Frisia).

Good question. Want to volunteer to PM them?

[Glen]

Okay, AJNolte has enough electors in combination with my proxy for RCTFI to choose a pro-Wettinite as 'Elected King of the Romans' (title of the HRE after being elected and before being crowned by the Pope). The others I suggest should vote for an anti-Wettinite. Their candidate has less legitimacy since he only has three votes, but then the Pope crowns him Holy Roman Emperor to validate him over the pro-Wettinite elected King.

I recommend that you put Keenir's Palatinate ruler in the role of Holy Roman Emperor, he seems to be the most anti-Wettinite of the bunch, and has an interest in keeping together the HRE, so this will give us a participant as HRE who will play the role well.

Probably we'll have pro-Wettinite, anti-Wettinite, and neutral factions within the HRE. It should be interesting.

And so we see Civil War in the HRE....guess we know where a lot of unemployed Spaniards are going.....

What about his first son?

Louis V, Elector Palatine
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Louis V, Count Palatine of the Rhine (* 2 July 1478 in Heidelberg; † 16 March 1544 in Heidelberg; ) a member of the Wittelsbach dynasty was prince elector of the Palatinate.

His parents were Philip, Elector Palatine and Margarete von Bavaria-Landshut.

Louis succeeded his father in 1508 and had to cope with the consequences of the lost Landshut War of Succession against Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria. With the imperial diet of Augsburg in 1518 Louis achieved the annulment of the Imperial Ban against the Palatinate. In 1519 Louis voted for Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor.

After negotiations with the discontent farmers had failed in 1525 Louis was involved in the Peasants' War.

Louis married Sibylle, daughter of Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria but had no children by her.

I think somebody's messing with the wiki...when I checked, the sons born prior to Ruprecht were dead by or shortly after 1493.
*sigh*

I've got no objection to Louis V...except that I'd prefer someone whose name isn't the same as the king of France.
sorry.

Just call him Ludwig. It's the German version.

Correct: Juan is king of Spain.

You know, it looks as though the count Palatinate and the archbishop of Cologne are the only electors loyal to the Pope.

So, have we figured out the basics of the Reformation/Succession Crisis for the early 1520s?

I suspect there will be war thereafter. That needs to be discussed, but lets first nail this bit down and get it incorporated into the timeline.

A few things from the Reformation thread.

Forgot about the idea of having a split decision. We really should do that, it would be fun and plausible!

[Keenir]

I recommend that you put Keenir's Palatinate ruler in the role of Holy Roman Emperor, he seems to be the most anti-Wettinite of the bunch, and has an interest in keeping together the HRE, so this will give us a participant as HRE who will play the role well.

Probably we'll have pro-Wettinite, anti-Wettinite, and neutral factions within the HRE. It should be interesting.

I remember reading a discussion which strongly suggested that part of why Lutheranism/Protestantism got such a strong foothold among the Princes of the HRE, was because it gave them a way to distance themselves (somewhat) from the Emperor....and that if the Emperor had become Protestant, the Princes would've dived right back to Roman Catholocism.