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Keenir
June 23rd, 2007, 07:30 AM
a rough draft of my idea for Venice. hey, when I said it was going to go splat, did you think I was kidding? :D


1501:
Start of the Venetian/Genoan War.

1503:
Mediterranean Sea:
Venice steps up its attacks on Genoan settlements and depots.

Black Sea:
The Genoan ports in the Crimea and elsewhere in the Black Sea are shelled to a state of ruin by the Venetians.

1504-09:
Venice:
The Doge of Venice is beginning to get the upper hand in his dealings with the Council which usually runs Venice.

1505:
Genoa sues for peace. Venice is deeded several Genoan shipping locations.

1513:
Early in the shipping season, the Doge receives an anonomous tip* that a tradesman is planning to take Venetian secrets out of Venice. The Venetian agents capture the tradesman in question, finding shipbuilding drawings among his effects.

As the year progresses, and little information is forthcoming, the Doge puts increasing pressure on the tradesman’s fellows: the inhabitants of Venice’s Armenian quarter.

* = pre- and post-divergence, Venice had the same feature as daVinci’s Florence – anonymity. And in OTL, medieval Venice _did_ have an Armenian quarter.

Late in the shipping season, almost too late to do anything, Ottoman Emperor Isa sends a messenger to Venice, commanding the Council to cease this action with the Armenians, as they are under the protection of the Sublime Porte. Isa himself is of Pontus Greek extraction, but both his first wife (of three) and favorite concubine are Armenians.

1513-4:
Over the Venetian winter, the Doge fumes…all his hard work, his return to the prominence which Doges once held in Venice, which certain spies have reported to the Sultan (after all, its what Venice would do unto other states)…and the Sultan acts as though the Council were still calling the shots. He stops the torture of random Armenians in Venice, though he does not call for the stopping of torture being meted out to those accused of crimes against Venice. In addition, the Doge isolates the Armenian quarter from the rest of Venice, encouraging its fall into disrepair. (hard to fix things when your supplies are on the other side of a barrier)

1514:
Constantinople:
Emperor Isa receives the Doge’s emissary, who tells him that the tortures have stopped. The emissary then makes the mistake of relaying the next part of the Doge’s message: to stop being so commanding of him, for the Sultan still needs Venice.

Isa, the mastermind behind Selim’s expansion of the navy and building of new docks, sees things differently. The Sultan feels that, if Venice is so eager to cut the apronstrings it has with the Empire, then so be it…after all, the Ottomans can easily bottle Venice up in the Adriatic.

{suggestions welcome on the exact lead-in to the Diaspora…the Ottomans could simply siege the heck out of Venice, firing cannonload after cannonload…would any other method have worked?}

Winter of 1517-8:
Venetian Diaspora.
When members of the Diaspora speak, they tell of the perfidity of the heretic, the danger and destruction which aberration from the Church brings trailing along.

1520:
Atlantic Ocean:
As he is brought back to Europe, (-) preaches among the Portugese sailors.

Rome:
Bishop Erasmus attends the Council Of Rome.

1521:
A Portugese ship stops in Venice. (-) disembarks and begins spreading the message of San Christianity. {I forget his name, but he's among the San presently}

1521-1527:
Venice:
San Christians lead the way in rebuilding Venetian life. Between the diaspora and the conversion rate, it is not long before the San Christians are the majority in the city-state.

1527:
Venice:
The re-institution of the Council. In theory and principle, everything in Venice is run according to the dictates of San Christianity. In practice, the Council runs things much as it always has, only this time without the Doge as a figurehead.

However, the Council members are all San Christians – several being strict ones – and ensure that the modesty (in terms of artwork and statuary and ownership) of Venice and Venice’s citizens are in line with the requirements of their faith.

Glen
June 23rd, 2007, 01:09 PM
1501:
Start of the Venetian/Genoan War.

Caused by? Not that those two going to war would be that surprising, but we should state the cause belli.

1503:
Mediterranean Sea:
Venice steps up its attacks on Genoan settlements and depots.

Black Sea:
The Genoan ports in the Crimea and elsewhere in the Black Sea are shelled to a state of ruin by the Venetians.

And what are the Ottomans doing during all this?

1504-09:
Venice:
The Doge of Venice is beginning to get the upper hand in his dealings with the Council which usually runs Venice.

Is it Leonardo Loredan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Loredan) who becomes Doge still ITTL? Why is he gainging the upper hand?


1505:
Genoa sues for peace. Venice is deeded several Genoan shipping locations.

The Venetian victory over the Genoese is plausible, though you need to be specific as to what territories change hands.

1513:
Early in the shipping season, the Doge receives an anonomous tip* that a tradesman is planning to take Venetian secrets out of Venice. The Venetian agents capture the tradesman in question, finding shipbuilding drawings among his effects.

As the year progresses, and little information is forthcoming, the Doge puts increasing pressure on the tradesman’s fellows: the inhabitants of Venice’s Armenian quarter.

* = pre- and post-divergence, Venice had the same feature as daVinci’s Florence – anonymity. And in OTL, medieval Venice _did_ have an Armenian quarter.

Late in the shipping season, almost too late to do anything, Ottoman Emperor Isa sends a messenger to Venice, commanding the Council to cease this action with the Armenians, as they are under the protection of the Sublime Porte. Isa himself is of Pontus Greek extraction, but both his first wife (of three) and favorite concubine are Armenians.

1513-4:
Over the Venetian winter, the Doge fumes…all his hard work, his return to the prominence which Doges once held in Venice, which certain spies have reported to the Sultan (after all, its what Venice would do unto other states)…and the Sultan acts as though the Council were still calling the shots. He stops the torture of random Armenians in Venice, though he does not call for the stopping of torture being meted out to those accused of crimes against Venice. In addition, the Doge isolates the Armenian quarter from the rest of Venice, encouraging its fall into disrepair. (hard to fix things when your supplies are on the other side of a barrier)

1514:
Constantinople:
Emperor Isa receives the Doge’s emissary, who tells him that the tortures have stopped. The emissary then makes the mistake of relaying the next part of the Doge’s message: to stop being so commanding of him, for the Sultan still needs Venice.

Isa, the mastermind behind Selim’s expansion of the navy and building of new docks, sees things differently. The Sultan feels that, if Venice is so eager to cut the apronstrings it has with the Empire, then so be it…after all, the Ottomans can easily bottle Venice up in the Adriatic.

Why this convoluted story as the cause belli for war between the Ottomans and the Venetians. They had a war IOTL in 1499 for goodness sakes, so its not like its hard to get them in a fight. Is it so they go after the Venetians directly, rather than just their colonial holdings?

Ottoman attacks into Venice proper threatens intervention by other nations, though by no means assured.


{suggestions welcome on the exact lead-in to the Diaspora…the Ottomans could simply siege the heck out of Venice, firing cannonload after cannonload…would any other method have worked?}

Winter of 1517-8:
Venetian Diaspora.
When members of the Diaspora speak, they tell of the perfidity of the heretic, the danger and destruction which aberration from the Church brings trailing along.

I feel like a huge chunk of events are missing here....

1520:
Atlantic Ocean:
As he is brought back to Europe, (-) preaches among the Portugese sailors.

He who?


Rome:
Bishop Erasmus attends the Council Of Rome.

OTL's Erasmus would never have become a bishop, would have outright refused in fact. Event disallowed.


1521:
A Portugese ship stops in Venice. (-) disembarks and begins spreading the message of San Christianity. {I forget his name, but he's among the San presently}

1521-1527:
Venice:
San Christians lead the way in rebuilding Venetian life. Between the diaspora and the conversion rate, it is not long before the San Christians are the majority in the city-state.

1527:
Venice:
The re-institution of the Council. In theory and principle, everything in Venice is run according to the dictates of San Christianity. In practice, the Council runs things much as it always has, only this time without the Doge as a figurehead.

However, the Council members are all San Christians – several being strict ones – and ensure that the modesty (in terms of artwork and statuary and ownership) of Venice and Venice’s citizens are in line with the requirements of their faith.

What the heck is going on with this San Christianity bit? Seems very unlikely. They should just go Wettinite....:rolleyes:

__________________

Keenir
June 23rd, 2007, 04:47 PM
Caused by? Not that those two going to war would be that surprising, but we should state the cause belli.

when I do some more reading, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find it.

And what are the Ottomans doing during all this?

well, in the original draft, they were providing a safe harbor (so to speak - if anybody chases the Venetians away from teh coasts they attack, they run into the Ottomans)...but that was part of what became retconned.

Why this convoluted story as the cause belli for war between the Ottomans and the Venetians.

because I don't just want a few exchanges of cannonfire on the open sea...I want Venice to recieve a sound thrashing.

I feel like a huge chunk of events are missing here....

yes they are...I haven't gotten to the library yet, but I wanted to lay out a rough sketch of my plans.

OTL's Erasmus would never have become a bishop, would have outright refused in fact. Event disallowed.

he's an OFC. AJNolte suggested the name for a debating rival to Luther.

What the heck is going on with this San Christianity bit? Seems very unlikely. They should just go Wettinite....:rolleyes:

I created San Christianity offline (and have been building it online in little posts, a bit at a time) way before adopting Venice.

and believe me when I say that San Christianity is even more reformed than the Wettinites. (Wettinites, in their view, are Catholics who haven't done anything more than change the color of the altar cloths) :cool:

Glen
June 23rd, 2007, 04:57 PM
because I don't just want a few exchanges of cannonfire on the open sea...I want Venice to recieve a sound thrashing.

yes they are...I haven't gotten to the library yet, but I wanted to lay out a rough sketch of my plans.

Fair enough.

he's an OFC. AJNolte suggested the name for a debating rival to Luther.

I'm unfamiliar with OFC. While he is indeed a good debating rival to Luthor, he won't become a bishop.

I created San Christianity offline (and have been building it online in little posts, a bit at a time) way before adopting Venice.

and believe me when I say that San Christianity is even more reformed than the Wettinites. (Wettinites, in their view, are Catholics who haven't done anything more than change the color of the altar cloths) :cool:

Oh, I believe you, I'm just a bit worried about who they are and their history. Are these related to the San of Africa?:eek:

AJNolte
June 23rd, 2007, 05:30 PM
when I do some more reading, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find it.



well, in the original draft, they were providing a safe harbor (so to speak - if anybody chases the Venetians away from teh coasts they attack, they run into the Ottomans)...but that was part of what became retconned.



because I don't just want a few exchanges of cannonfire on the open sea...I want Venice to recieve a sound thrashing.



yes they are...I haven't gotten to the library yet, but I wanted to lay out a rough sketch of my plans.



he's an OFC. AJNolte suggested the name for a debating rival to Luther.



I created San Christianity offline (and have been building it online in little posts, a bit at a time) way before adopting Venice.

and believe me when I say that San Christianity is even more reformed than the Wettinites. (Wettinites, in their view, are Catholics who haven't done anything more than change the color of the altar cloths) :cool:

No, I was talking about OTL Erasmus, who existed before the divergence. And anyway, Erasmus would probably be a Wettinite, given it's more moderate character, engaging in intermural (internal Wettinite) debates with Luther.

Keenir
June 23rd, 2007, 05:44 PM
I'm unfamiliar with OFC.

original fictional character.

Oh, I believe you, I'm just a bit worried about who they are and their history. Are these related to the San of Africa?:eek:

yup. I made a post early in the history of the "Sub-Saharan Africa" thread.

No, I was talking about OTL Erasmus, who existed before the divergence. And anyway, Erasmus would probably be a Wettinite, given it's more moderate character, engaging in intermural (internal Wettinite) debates with Luther.

in that case, you can keep that Erasmus, and I'll dig up another name.
(kinda scary, since I picked Erasmus' surname at random from a list of Frisian names)

Glen
June 23rd, 2007, 07:14 PM
No, I was talking about OTL Erasmus, who existed before the divergence. And anyway, Erasmus would probably be a Wettinite, given it's more moderate character, engaging in intermural (internal Wettinite) debates with Luther.

original fictional character.

Yes, Keenir. Erasmus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus) was a real person.

yup. I made a post early in the history of the "Sub-Saharan Africa" thread.

Its a start, but this is unlikely to spread beyond the region.

in that case, you can keep that Erasmus, and I'll dig up another name. (kinda scary, since I picked Erasmus' surname at random from a list of Frisian names)

Weird, yeah. Perhaps a subliminal memory....