1493 International Discussions 1510-1520

[Glen]

Post here discussions between participants to plan events that touch on multiple realms of responsibility.

WARNING! Starting this round, no events will be accepted through this thread! This is for discussion only. Once you have agreed (or agreed to disagree) on events, post them in the First Draft Thread.

Previous discussion thread here.

[Tom Veil]

As usual, I put out my invitation that anyone who plans on reaching the North Atlantic coast of America & Canada state their intentions here, so that we can co-ordinate. American geography is quickly getting very confusing, with Glen & me blissfully referring to everything by retro-Iroquois or "Cabotian" names, and it's only going to get more complicated as other nations begin to use their geographic terms. The discussion thread will allow us to say things like "OK, we're landing in Philadelphia." :)

EDIT: As if to prove that sometimes even Glen & I don't understand each other, I just realized that I have to ask: Glen, is the "Meryk" the Hudson River (flowing into the Manhattan end of Long Island) or the Connecticut River (opposite the Atlantic end of Long Island)? The Mohawk trading town of Sganeda’dih (Schenectady) is on the Mohawk River, which merges with the Hudson River in Albany, and Sganeda’dih is reachable by ship, so the English will discover it fairly soon if they explore inland from their fort on Manhattan.

[Glen]

As usual, I put out my invitation that anyone who plans on reaching the North Atlantic coast of America & Canada state their intentions here, so that we can co-ordinate. American geography is quickly getting very confusing, with Glen & me blissfully referring to everything by retro-Iroquois or "Cabotian" names, and it's only going to get more complicated as other nations begin to use their geographic terms. The discussion thread will allow us to say things like "OK, we're landing in Philadelphia." :)

Okay, then let me speak plain. English trading posts are being established in Newfoundland, along the St Laurence, in Manhattan, and coming soon, the Chesapeake. Over the next several decades we're open to other locales as well. Biggest interest is trade in furs at this point.

We'd like to do this on a fairly friendly basis. Suggestions as to where people would like their trading posts in their tribal areas would be appreciated. Note however that we will be looking for good harbors as a necessity.

[AJNolte]

The Hansa are looking to launch an expedition early in 1510 to the southern cone, probably discovering the Straights of Magellan. We're also planning to establish some colonies (missionaries and fur-traders to start with), with the first, to be named Fredericksberg, near present-day Buenos Aires (I think: BA is near the coast right)?

Would anyone playing tribes in the southern cone please get in touch with me to talk things over?

Thanks.

[Psychomeltdown]

The Hansa are looking to launch an expedition early in 1510 to the southern cone, probably discovering the Straights of Magellan. We're also planning to establish some colonies (missionaries and fur-traders to start with), with the first, to be named Fredericksberg, near present-day Buenos Aires (I think: BA is near the coast right)?

Would anyone playing tribes in the southern cone please get in touch with me to talk things over?

Thanks.

Southern Cone?

You mean South America? That be Portugal Territory, well Brazil area and a bit downward.

[Glen]

As usual, I put out my invitation that anyone who plans on reaching the North Atlantic coast of America & Canada state their intentions here, so that we can co-ordinate. American geography is quickly getting very confusing, with Glen & me blissfully referring to everything by retro-Iroquois or "Cabotian" names, and it's only going to get more complicated as other nations begin to use their geographic terms. The discussion thread will allow us to say things like "OK, we're landing in Philadelphia." :)

EDIT: As if to prove that sometimes even Glen & I don't understand each other, I just realized that I have to ask: Glen, is the "Meryk" the Hudson River (flowing into the Manhattan end of Long Island) or the Connecticut River (opposite the Atlantic end of Long Island)? The Mohawk trading town of Sganeda’dih (Schenectady) is on the Mohawk River, which merges with the Hudson River in Albany, and Sganeda’dih is reachable by ship, so the English will discover it fairly soon if they explore inland from their fort on Manhattan.

The Meryk is the Hudson.

[Glen]

The Hansa are looking to launch an expedition early in 1510 to the southern cone, probably discovering the Straights of Magellan. We're also planning to establish some colonies (missionaries and fur-traders to start with), with the first, to be named Fredericksberg, near present-day Buenos Aires (I think: BA is near the coast right)?

Would anyone playing tribes in the southern cone please get in touch with me to talk things over?

Thanks.

Portugal is apparently getting there first, follewed by England, and then a Neapolitan mission IIRC.

[AJNolte]

Portugal is apparently getting there first, follewed by England, and then a Neapolitan mission IIRC.

I thought the Portugese were in Brazil?

And the Neapolitans were working with the Hansa on the southern cone expedition.

Didn't Cabbot fail to make it to the cone?

[Glen]

I thought the Portugese were in Brazil?

And the Neapolitans were working with the Hansa on the southern cone expedition.

Didn't Cabbot fail to make it to the cone?

That's bizarre. Its missing. Oh well, I'll post it again later in retro.

You are quite right, John Cabot fails. It is up to his son to fulfil the family legacy....

[AJNolte]

That's bizarre. Its missing. Oh well, I'll post it again later in retro.

You are quite right, John Cabot fails. It is up to his son to fulfil the family legacy....

Well, if we get there first, we could come to a mutually beneficial trade agreement for access to the Straights.

I wasn't planning to close them off by any means; just charge some minor toles and colonize the southern cone, as well as sending expeditions into the Pacific...err, Arthurian Ocean.

[Smaug]

1512. The Zaque of the Muisca has received word that the Inka are gearing up for conquest. He sends an emissary to the Inka in the hope of strengthening ties between thier peoples. He sends his own weight in Emeralds and a variety of other trade goods in the hope of recieving information on the Inkas new method of writing and accounting, and stonemasons who can act as a cadre to his own growing engineering corp.

He promises trade concessions, and to share knowledge of the newcomers, and thier curious gadgets.

[Aussey]

1510-1511: The church of São Rafael recieves it's silver altar candles, and chalice from Hansa in Northern Europe. More lumber is ordered from the conquered parts of southern Lunda for the building of it. Queen Betânia dies giving birth to a son, Prince Giovanni-Federico. Ndongolese Franciscan monks are sent North to Benin with blessings from the Kongo to pass through.

1512: A small rebellion in the Jaga Cassangi is quickly put down by an upstart military leader Giusseppe Kasenda di Sacramento-Benedetto-sull'Oceano, though in the works of visiting Italian commentaries, he is referred to as Capitano Giusseppe Kasenda Benedetto. With his great put-down of the Jaga rebellion, he is sent with four-hundred more men to assist in the Crociata di giungla of the Lunda.

[AJNolte]

1510-1511: The church of São Rafael recieves it's silver altar candles, and chalice from Hansa in Northern Europe. More lumber is ordered from the conquered parts of southern Lunda for the building of it. Queen Betânia dies giving birth to a son, Prince Giovanni-Federico. Ndongolese Franciscan monks are sent North to Benin with blessings from the Kongo to pass through.

1512: A small rebellion in the Jaga Cassangi is quickly put down by an upstart military leader Giusseppe Kasenda di Sacramento-Benedetto-sull'Oceano, though in the works of visiting Italian commentaries, he is referred to as Capitano Giusseppe Kasenda Benedetto. With his great put-down of the Jaga rebellion, he is sent with four-hundred more men to assist in the Crociata di giungla of the Lunda.


Aussie:
Just out of curiosity, does this mean that there is a small Hansa office in your capital (undoubtedly manned by Itallians from Lucca and Ostia as well as more enterprising Germans)?

[Psychomeltdown]

I thought the Portugese were in Brazil?

Portuguese hit Brazil first and explored southward up to the Straits of Magellan. Hence their continued claim that South America is theirs. It's a different matter as of it they'll be able to enforce that claim and another matter entirely if another nation wishes to challenge them on that claim.

[Aussey]

Aussie:
Just out of curiosity, does this mean that there is a small Hansa office in your capital (undoubtedly manned by Itallians from Lucca and Ostia as well as more enterprising Germans)?

I guess!?!

[AJNolte]

I guess!?!

Just incidentally, this means that Portugal's attack on Ndongo and Kongo would also place it at war with the Hansa, and it's small but capable navy and the Teutonic Knights, still a formidable warrior order.

[Psychomeltdown]

Just incidentally, this means that Portugal's attack on Ndongo and Kongo would also place it at war with the Hansa, and it's small but capable navy and the Teutonic Knights, still a formidable warrior order.

well it's looking like Portugal vs. the world, if they attempt to enforce their will upon Ndongo.

[Smaug]

What are you guys thoughts on my Muisca, finding an oil seap after a forest fire, that never stops burning. Even the usual uses of such as waterproofing boats, torches, fire arrows. Is that too much of a leap for an "Aboriginal Civ"?

I can't find the link, but the first blow out, for real oil well in Venezuela, happened right next to an oil seep. If anyone thinks thats to much of a leap, OK. I find it to be plausible.

At any rate, all feed back appreciated:)

[pompejus]

My plans for Burgundy and surroundings this decade are more or less these:

The death of the Bishop of Liege, a new anti-Burgundian Bisshop is appointed, after which Burgundy takes over Liege.
A war between Burgundy and the anti-Burgundian alliance over Oversticht (the Dutch provinces of Overijsel and Drenthe). The area is technically already Burgundian after the sale of Utrecht, but Burgundy has no influence there. The Alliance will win this conflict and Oversticht will be split between Guelders who gets Overijsel and East-Frisia who gets Drenthe.

The problem is Maximillian. If the Emperor dies this decade, it is not unlikely his only son, who is the ruler of Burgundy, will succeed him. This would mess up my ideas for the region. That is the reason I will not post for this decade unil it is clear if (or when) Maximillian dies and who succeeds him.

I would like to propose that if we wish for Philip the handsome to succeed Maximillian, that our favourite emperor dies after 1518. That way Philip's son Charles can succeed Philip as ruler of Burgundy, while Philip becomes HRE and ruler of Austria.

[AJNolte]

My plans for Burgundy and surroundings this decade are more or less these:

The death of the Bishop of Liege, a new anti-Burgundian Bisshop is appointed, after which Burgundy takes over Liege.
A war between Burgundy and the anti-Burgundian alliance over Oversticht (the Dutch provinces of Overijsel and Drenthe). The area is technically already Burgundian after the sale of Utrecht, but Burgundy has no influence there. The Alliance will win this conflict and Oversticht will be split between Guelders who gets Overijsel and East-Frisia who gets Drenthe.

The problem is Maximillian. If the Emperor dies this decade, it is not unlikely his only son, who is the ruler of Burgundy, will succeed him. This would mess up my ideas for the region. That is the reason I will not post for this decade unil it is clear if (or when) Maximillian dies and who succeeds him.

I would like to propose that if we wish for Philip the handsome to succeed Maximillian, that our favourite emperor dies after 1518. That way Philip's son Charles can succeed Philip as ruler of Burgundy, while Philip becomes HRE and ruler of Austria.

Unless, of course, a non-Hapsburg is elected Holy Roman Emperor.

[pompejus]

Unless, of course, a non-Hapsburg is elected Holy Roman Emperor.

Of course, but I want to know how and what before i updateand have to retcon everything.

[AJNolte]

Of course, but I want to know how and what before i updateand have to retcon everything.

Fair enough: I have the same problem with some of my stuff. RCTFI: can you please weigh in on this?

[Smaug]

What are you guys thoughts on my Muisca, finding an oil seap after a forest fire, that never stops burning. Even the usual uses of such as waterproofing boats, torches, fire arrows. Is that too much of a leap for an "Aboriginal Civ"?

I can't find the link, but the first blow out, for real oil well in Venezuela, happened right next to an oil seep. If anyone thinks thats to much of a leap, OK. I find it to be plausible.

At any rate, all feed back appreciated:)

bump. Is this too implausible?

[Psychomeltdown]

bump. Is this too implausible?

well might be a bit too implausible. You're looking for too much of a great mental leap and understanding where there hasn't really been much foundation work to inspire it's great leap. Though I'm not saying such things may not happen from time to time, it's just that it seems too big of a grasp for a people who aren't all that technologically advanced.

[Tom Veil]

finding an oil seep probably isn't all that implausible. having anyone, of any race, view it as anything useful, that would be implausible.

[marl_d]

if they see that the oil is burning, or see that it starts burning after a lightning strike, they might see it's use as something to coat arrows in to shoot at boats....

[Tom Veil]

The oil-tipped arrows are not a bad idea. I just don't want them to see it and go, "oh, if we could regulate this combustion process and use it to spin a turbine..." :p

[Smaug]

I stick to the innovations I mentioned. I plan on nothing further than, as a fuel, and a waterproofer.... a way to make boats float, make torches or lamps, and maybe fire arrows.

I'm quite prepared to wait until further developments are made in Science and Chemistry. I do want to keep this thing plausible, I don't intend to kill fleets. If one ship was particularly nasty, I'd want to burn it. Mind you, I'm trying to play an Aboriginal Civ.

At any rate, I do appreciate the feedback:)

[Keenir]

If one ship was particularly nasty, I'd want to burn it. Mind you, I'm trying to play an Aboriginal Civ.

at least your survived in OTL better than mine did! *nods*

[Smaug]

at least your survived in OTL better than mine did! *nods*


Its early:)

[Keenir]

Its early:)

true, but -

at least the average person can find your people on a map! ;):p

as opposed to any of the people of Pohnpei being found on a map.

[Smaug]

true, but -

at least the average person can find your people on a map! ;):p

as opposed to any of the people of Pohnpei being found on a map.


Is Wiki broke? It worked for me:p

[Glen]

Temporarily locking until we catch up to 1510 in the timeline review.

[Glen]

Temporarily locking until we catch up to 1510 in the timeline review.

Unlocked so people may assist in the timeline review.