1493 New World Holocaust Discussion

[Glen]

Okay, folks. By the early 1500s, contacts between Old and New Worlds should be sufficient to get some bad bugs like Small Pox across.

Death rates for naive populations should be somewhere between 50-90%.

New World civilizations are going to be in a pretty bad way for decades to come.

Comments?

[DuQuense]

I don't see any way to stop this, in fact due to the increased contact and trade ITTL it will move quicker and farther than OTL.

[Tom Veil]

Not necessarily. Very few explorers have actually gotten off of the boats and interacted with the natives yet. The deaths don't happen until they start to do that.

[Smaug]

Estimates for the Muisca were something on the order of 5 million, (on Wiki). The Maya are somewhat small, probably 150,000, as are the Huasetec, i'm thinking 75,000 for them at the most due to wars with the Aztecs. The Muisca are going to try to trade at a distance, by being very helpful to set up enclaves, and trying to prevent large scale movement into the interior.

Hopefully by selling cheap, and paying high, they'll somewhat encourage whoever to stick to trade rather than outright annexation. I realize that this is impossible, but its my plan.

They claim that the gold they have, was made by trading salt, coca, and pottery with peoples who live along a great river to the South East. At the mid point of that river, 27 days paddling from the Great Eastern Water, live a great civilization where gold is used for everything.

[Glen]

Not necessarily. Very few explorers have actually gotten off of the boats and interacted with the natives yet. The deaths don't happen until they start to do that.

That is starting in North America. Need I remind you of Fort Henry in Manhattan?

[AJNolte]

Part of the reason I want a smallpox vaccine, even a bad one. My Knights of Rhodes/Hospitaler face relishes the opportunity to fulfill the order's medical role in such a powerful way, while my hanseatic self revels in the possible trading advantages. Of course, the part of me playing their Catholic Majesties doesn't care about the deaths of so many backward heathens (beyond abstract sadness), though Juan and the adherents of the Salamanca school, also inside my head, are chastizing them for it mightily.

So, uh, can someone help me develop the freaking vaccine so I can stop the schitzophrenia and mitigate Popper's law?

Of course, vaccination might just lead to even more virulent strains of the disease cropping up...
Yeah, help from a medical background needed.

[Keenir]

So, uh, can someone help me develop the freaking vaccine so I can stop the schitzophrenia and mitigate Popper's law?

what's Popper's Law ?

[Tom Veil]

I think he means the law of unintended consequences?

[Glen]

Part of the reason I want a smallpox vaccine, even a bad one. My Knights of Rhodes/Hospitaler face relishes the opportunity to fulfill the order's medical role in such a powerful way, while my hanseatic self revels in the possible trading advantages. Of course, the part of me playing their Catholic Majesties doesn't care about the deaths of so many backward heathens (beyond abstract sadness), though Juan and the adherents of the Salamanca school, also inside my head, are chastizing them for it mightily.

So, uh, can someone help me develop the freaking vaccine so I can stop the schitzophrenia and mitigate Popper's law?

Of course, vaccination might just lead to even more virulent strains of the disease cropping up...
Yeah, help from a medical background needed.

Follow the advice I gave you, AJ. PS - I am an MD.

[Glen]

This week, I expect many heart-rending entries about death in the New World from our New World participants (including myself).

I also ask that if your Old World nations are in contact with NPC New Worlders, that you do some for them as well.

PS - Sort of a corrollary, but any Europeans trying to have a big presence in Sub-Saharan Africa are going to have a lot of issues with disease. It works both ways in some senses, don't ya know.:eek:

[Atom]

Well firstly It won't hit me until about 1520, becuase as the Inca I am pretty far away, and the Northwest caost people will probably get hit in the 1530's. Also It's more like 95% casualty rates over a century. (Using Cook's and Borahs figures from 1978, which although criticized are, I believe, pretty good for central Mexico at least. The population of Mexico would at least be 10 million) First smallpox, then hantavirus, plague, measles and quite afew others, although smallpox kills every one but the square root of your population (roughly). Whole tribes died, and you should know that, and be prepared to kill them off.

[Smaug]

Still awaiting contact, other than apparently getting wacked on Hispaniola:/

[Glen]

Smaug, your Hispaniola people could be writing some good stuff about contact.

Mostly pathos about dying from all those plagues, but still!:rolleyes: