1493: Hanseatic thread.

[AJNolte]

I open this thread to the members of the Hansa and all her trading partners, friends, enemies, rivals, and what have you.

To the Calmarn Union: Certainly you understand that minor friction over Sweden came about as a result of some wearisome trade rivalries. We should negotiate a mutually beneficial trading pact. By the way, speaking of navies, you should see this little beauty we of the Wendish Federation are building with our allies the Teutonic knights...it's fantastic. While we're speaking of dull military matters, it's also worth noting that the Teutonic grand-master is in the line of succession for Albertine Saxony, which by the way is considering taking out loans from the Hansa, and by the way has a very shiny army. So, let's talk trade.

To: Rhenish and Prussian thirds: we really need to include our Itallian partners in the League and discuss the future of our organization moving forward. We have a lot of trade opportunieies opening up in the Med and elsewhere, and we need to make sure we're efficiently organized to deal with them. I'd like to move forward with Ostia's membership in the Hansa as well. What do you say to a reorganization into quarters (Rhenish, Wendish, Prussian and Itallian), with a grand hanseatic council to meet in one of the quarters on a rotating basis once every two years?

To the Burgundian and anti-Burgundian polities: want to trade or join the Hansa? We could divvy things up into fifths also.

To England (OOC) can you post the text of your beaver pelt PM). (IC). Could we perhaps discuss trade and mutually beneficial joint ventures in Norasia?

And does anyone know who owns Malta? The Hansa would like very much to buy it.

Have at it.

[Keenir]

I open this thread to the members of the Hansa and all her trading partners, friends, enemies, rivals, and what have you.

To: Rhenish and Prussian thirds: we really need to include our Itallian partners in the League

(ooc: um, who are the Italian partners?)

I'd like to move forward with Ostia's membership in the Hansa as well. What do you say to a reorganization into quarters (Rhenish, Wendish, Prussian and Itallian), with a grand hanseatic council to meet in one of the quarters on a rotating basis once every two years?

sounds good.

[The Sicilian]

Malta was part of the Crown of Sicily, which is held by Naples. Would you like to buy the entire territory (which I would agree to, for a high price), or just lease certain ports (which would also cost you some money)?

[Glen]

The English will be happy to provide to Hansa retailers in Europe the incredible Beaver Pelts of Norasia. And of course the London factors who owe their Loyalty to the Crown will find a prominent place in the trade between England and Norasia....:D

[AJNolte]

Malta was part of the Crown of Sicily, which is held by Naples. Would you like to buy the entire territory (which I would agree to, for a high price), or just lease certain ports (which would also cost you some money)?

I'm for buying it outright, thereby giving us a sovereign territory in the Med. However, this might set back new world exploration.
Hmm, would you consider reducing the cost in exchange for a partnership in our new world ventures?
I'd like to hear from the Rhenish and Prussians on this issue also.

As for new world stuff, I'm thinkingwe should attempt to sail around the southern tip (after all it can't be that big can it), and perhaps look for a passage to the Pacific?
(OOC) This would give us access to the southern cone, which I think would be a good place for a Hanseat/Teutonic colony (and would incidentally appeal to us as it would give us a monopoly on trade through the Straights of Magellan).

[AJNolte]

The English will be happy to provide to Hansa retailers in Europe the incredible Beaver Pelts of Norasia. And of course the London factors who owe their Loyalty to the Crown will find a prominent place in the trade between England and Norasia....:D

Would any of the chartered English cities be interested in joining the Hansa? We see no conflict between this and your nation-state obligations if you don't...

[The Sicilian]

I would be open to a joint expedition. However, even then the price would be relativly high. Malta is a very strategic bit of land. I'll take some time to think about your offer.

[Keenir]

I'm for buying it outright, thereby giving us a sovereign territory in the Med. However, this might set back new world exploration.
Hmm, would you consider reducing the cost in exchange for a partnership in our new world ventures?
I'd like to hear from the Rhenish and Prussians on this issue also.

the Rhenish third supports the expansion of our shared language and faith in the lands we will in future obtain in the New World.

[AJNolte]

the Rhenish third supports the expansion of our shared language and faith in the lands we will in future obtain in the New World.

May I take it that you favor leasing ports then?

What about the establishment of Teutonic (and if they're interested Rhodean) commandries on Malta, and open access to Hansa traders as well as the lease of a port, in exchange for a fixed sum in cash now and some shares in our new world venture?

[Keenir]

May I take it that you favor leasing ports then?

until we hold the lands in question of the New World, yes.

What about the establishment of Teutonic (and if they're interested Rhodean) commandries on Malta, and open access to Hansa traders as well as the lease of a port, in exchange for a fixed sum in cash now and some shares in our new world venture?

On those matters, we shall vote the same as the other two-thirds of our social body.

[Glen]

Would any of the chartered English cities be interested in joining the Hansa? We see no conflict between this and your nation-state obligations if you don't...

England must decline, I'm afraid.

[Analytical Engine]

Brandenburg would like to reserve the rites to port leases in the future.

[AJNolte]

Brandenburg would like to reserve the rites to port leases in the future.

Where did you have in mind?

[AJNolte]

It seems as though we have an agreement in principle regarding Malta. In return for selling Malta to the Hansa, Naples will receive full subsidization of one new world expedition, and partnership in another Hanseatic expedition.

Is everyone in agreement with this?

And if so, we have a few action points remaining for this decade:
1. The admission of Ostia.
2. The reorganization of the Hansa.
3. Some sort of agreement with the Burgundians and Anti-Burgundians.
4. Resolution of the issues with Calmarn.
5. Planning our new world expeditions.

[The Sicilian]

I agree to the terms. When will we lauch our expedition?

[AJNolte]

I agree to the terms. When will we lauch our expedition?

Hmm, say, sale of Malta in 1503 or 4, expedition in 1505 or 6?

[The Sicilian]

1505 sounds good, as that was when I planned to launch my other expeditions.

[AJNolte]

1505 sounds good, as that was when I planned to launch my other expeditions.


Rhenish? Wendish? Shall we build upon the maps made by Cabbot and sail around the southern cone?
We can do follow-up trips later, but let's establish ourselves here before England and Spain take everything.

[Keenir]

quote=AJNolte;1096290]Rhenish? Wendish? Shall we build upon the maps made by Cabbot and sail around the southern cone?[/quote]

yes.
!!!!

[AJNolte]

quote=AJNolte;1096290]Rhenish? Wendish? Shall we build upon the maps made by Cabbot and sail around the southern cone?

yes.
!!!![/quote]

As John is having access issues, I'll PM him on this.

[AJNolte]

I posted some preliminaries on Malta in domestic events. Figured we'd go with a republic, as we're all free cities and wouldn't create some kind of monarchy I don't think. The "most Christian" part is a nod to the intense religiosity of Malta, even at this point OTL. If anyone has any objections, feel free to post them here.

[pompejus]

And if so, we have a few action points remaining for this decade:

3. Some sort of agreement with the Burgundians and Anti-Burgundians.


What do you think about this:

Around 1500/1501 Guelders, Cleve/Mark and Julich/Berg will hold a meeting to create an alliance to stop the increasing influence of Burgundy. At this conference will also be representatives of Friesland and Oversticht. These are the areas in the Netherlands in which the Hanza was most influencial and because of that the Hanseatic Leage will ally themselves to them, after which Burgundy will become more or less anti-Hanza and decline the offer.

Do you agree with this idea?

[Analytical Engine]

Where did you have in mind?

Hamburg and Bremen.

[AJNolte]

Sounds alright to me.
Rhenish? Prussians?What do you think about this:

Around 1500/1501 Guelders, Cleve/Mark and Julich/Berg will hold a meeting to create an alliance to stop the increasing influence of Burgundy. At this conference will also be representatives of Friesland and Oversticht. These are the areas in the Netherlands in which the Hanza was most influencial and because of that the Hanseatic Leage will ally themselves to them, after which Burgundy will become more or less anti-Hanza and decline the offer.

Do you agree with this idea?

[AJNolte]

Access from those ports won't be a problem. I'm not sure about leasing them outright, as they're major Hansa ports, but I think access will work.
We could also give you access to Konigsberg in Prussia. Hamburg and Bremen.

[Keenir]

Sounds alright to me.
Rhenish? Prussians?

the Elector wonders why we should alienate Burgundy, when we could get Burgundy to become pro-Hanza.

[AJNolte]

Keenir has a good point here. I suspect that the rationalle lies with Hanseatic involvement in Frisia?

I'm not suggesting that we go so far as to militarily ally with the anti-Burgundians, just trade with them.
the Elector wonders why we should alienate Burgundy, when we could get Burgundy to become pro-Hanza.

[Analytical Engine]

Access from those ports won't be a problem. I'm not sure about leasing them outright, as they're major Hansa ports, but I think access will work.
We could also give you access to Konigsberg in Prussia.

That would be agreeable.

[pompejus]

Keenir has a good point here. I suspect that the rationalle lies with Hanseatic involvement in Frisia?

I'm not suggesting that we go so far as to militarily ally with the anti-Burgundians, just trade with them.

I wasn't thinking a military alliance, just a trade agreement. Most Dutch hanze cities lie in Guelders, Overijssel and Friesland. All members (or at least sympathysers with) the anti-Burgundian alliance. I am not saying that Burgandy would become anti-Hanze, just a bit Hanzesceptical.

[AJNolte]

Then in what appears to be the longterm absense of the Prussian third: consider it done. That would be agreeable.