1493 Retro Draft Events 1493-1499

[Glen]

For events prior to 1500, please try not to conflict with previously established events.

[pompejus]

If I am correct I should post here events that happen before 1500, like the following OTL events that I didn't include in my first post but that will be important for upcoming events?

1496: Jan van Kleef (duke of Cleve and count of Mark) and Wilhelm von Julich-Berg (duke of Julich and Berg and count of Ravensburg) make a deal to join their duchies to try to form a counterbalance against Burgundy. It was decided that Jan’s son Johan (who was born in 1490) will marry Wilhelm’s daughter Maria (who was born in 1491) in 1509 and will inherit the Duchies of Cleve, Julich and Berg and the counties of Mark and Ravensberg.

1498: Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian makes Albrecht (the Elector of Saxony) governor of Friesland. The population of Friesland resists this appointment (as they never had a lord because of the traditional Frisian freedom) and are supported by Edzard, the count of East-Frisia, who hopes to add the area around the city of Groningen to his County.

[Glen]

If I am correct I should post here events that happen before 1500, like the following OTL events that I didn't include in my first post but that will be important for upcoming events?

Absolutely correct! However, try and follow the new notation standards, and put the events in red if they are pure OTL.

[Aussey]

((OOC: I thought I posted this, but it never ended up in the threads...))

1499: Prince João-Baptista of Ndongo, Son of King Emmanuel, sets off for Europe aboard Portugese ships, along with the entire Royal Ndongolese Diplomatic team, and Queen Isabella of Matamba's uncle, Prince Fernando-Kiluanje of Matamba. A few Ndongolese princesses and ladies are on board, in case of treaties :rolleyes:


((OOC: Love to see how the Princesses work out in Europe! BTW- they have tried to "Europeanize" themselves in look as much as possible.))

[DuQuense]

1498
Vama Da Gama stops in Mobassa, when he begins to demand trade concessions, the Sultan has him, and his ship thrown out. He then proceeds to Melina where he hires a Pilot for the trip to south India.

[DuQuense]

If Portugal objects let him log in and say so

1497
Portugal passes it's own version of the Allabrahh degree, requiring all Jews to leave Portugal.
Thousands of people begin leaving Portugal. the Shepidad Jews from Spain are the first to leave.


This lead to many problems for Portugal, as modern estimates put Portugal's Jewish community as between 5~10% of the entire Portuguese population.

by 1505 the problems were so bad that portugal passed a law forbiding anyone from leaving the country without royal permission. This law lead OTL to both the French and the Dutch almost taking Brazil from Portugal, and is the reason Angola and Mozanbuque, never developed a large Portuguese majority.

[Glen]

1498
Vama Da Gama stops in Mobassa, when he begins to demand trade concessions, the Sultan has him, and his ship thrown out. He then proceeds to Melina where he hires a Pilot for the trip to south India.

If Portugal objects let him log in and say so

1497
Portugal passes it's own version of the Allabrahh degree, requiring all Jews to leave Portugal.
Thousands of people begin leaving Portugal. the Shepidad Jews from Spain are the first to leave.


This lead to many problems for Portugal, as modern estimates put Portugal's Jewish community as between 5~10% of the entire Portuguese population.

by 1505 the problems were so bad that portugal passed a law forbiding anyone from leaving the country without royal permission. This law lead OTL to both the French and the Dutch almost taking Brazil from Portugal, and is the reason Angola and Mozanbuque, never developed a large Portuguese majority.

So these are OTL Portuguese events that you'd like to see put into the timeline, yes?

[DuQuense]

Yes I have OTL here

[pompejus]

Absolutely correct! However, try and follow the new notation standards, and put the events in red if they are pure OTL.

Ok, in that case I will repost them
1496:
Jan of Cleve (duke of Cleve and count of Mark) and Wilhelm of Julich-Berg (duke of Julich and Berg and count of Ravensburg) make a deal to join their duchies to try to form a counterbalance against Burgundy. It was decided that Jan’s son Johan (who was born in 1490) will marry Wilhelm’s daughter Maria (who was born in 1491) in 1509 and will inherit the Duchies of Cleve, Julich and Berg and the counties of Mark and Ravensberg.

1498:
Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian makes Albrecht (the Elector of Saxony) governor of Friesland. The population of Friesland resists this appointment (as they never had a lord because of the traditional Frisian freedom) and are supported by Edzard, the count of East-Frisia, who hopes to add the area around the city of Groningen to his County.

Is this better?
PS in my other posts there are also 2 OTL events that should be red: Philip's coming of age in 14994 and Philips of Burgundy's mariage in 1496.

[Glen]

((OOC: I thought I posted this, but it never ended up in the threads...))

1499: Prince João-Baptista of Ndongo, Son of King Emmanuel, sets off for Europe aboard Portugese ships, along with the entire Royal Ndongolese Diplomatic team, and Queen Isabella of Matamba's uncle, Prince Fernando-Kiluanje of Matamba. A few Ndongolese princesses and ladies are on board, in case of treaties :rolleyes:


((OOC: Love to see how the Princesses work out in Europe! BTW- they have tried to "Europeanize" themselves in look as much as possible.))

And who taught them that, eh? Portuguese sailors? Oh, they'll go over....not well, methinks.

Actually, for the first several years, that will be a bit of a point. Your Central African nobility are not going to fit in very well at first with European nobility. After a few decades, you can have them 'go Euro' as much as say the Japanese did OTL....

[Glen]

1498
Vama Da Gama stops in Mobassa, when he begins to demand trade concessions, the Sultan has him, and his ship thrown out. He then proceeds to Melina where he hires a Pilot for the trip to south India.

You control Mobassa, right DQ? If so, this one stands.

[Glen]

If Portugal objects let him log in and say so

1497
Portugal passes it's own version of the Allabrahh degree, requiring all Jews to leave Portugal.
Thousands of people begin leaving Portugal. the Shepidad Jews from Spain are the first to leave.


This lead to many problems for Portugal, as modern estimates put Portugal's Jewish community as between 5~10% of the entire Portuguese population.

by 1505 the problems were so bad that portugal passed a law forbiding anyone from leaving the country without royal permission. This law lead OTL to both the French and the Dutch almost taking Brazil from Portugal, and is the reason Angola and Mozanbuque, never developed a large Portuguese majority.

This OTL event is mostly domestic. Can't we give him a little more time to chime in?

[DuQuense]

1498
Vama Da Gama stops in Mobassa, when he begins to demand trade concessions, the Sultan has him, and his ship thrown out.
He then proceeds to Melina where he hires a Pilot for the trip to south India.
I don't control Mombasa but this is red ie OTL and the Mombasa guy hasn't objected, or changed anything in the area yet.

[VulcanTrekkie45]

1497: As a show of a renewed effort of friendship, Radu and Bogdan, the heirs to the Wallachian and Moldavian thrones respectively take two daughters, Maria and Anne, of the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid as their wives. The Ottoman blockade relaxes and Vlad allows free trade across Wallachian borders. Moldavia follows suit two months later.

[Glen]

Northern Italy:

1493 March 20: William Palaeologus, the six year old eldest son of Margrave Boniface of Montferrat, dies from a fall. His young brother Boniface is now the defacto heir to Montferrat.

[Glen]

Northern Italy:

1495 March 15: Michelle Antonia of Saluzzo born; daughter of Margrave Ludovico II of Saluzzo.

[Psychomeltdown]

I think things prior to 1500 go about the same as OTL.

We're barely beginning to explore Africa and India and they're be plenty of set backs , but in a few years we'll get the hang of it and begin doing what we do best.


1497 - The decree was passed and only a token effort was attempted to enforce it. Although the church was willing to either forced baptization and conversion upon the jews, Manoel I tended to look the other way. the Portuguese need the Jews, they fill a vital role in the running of the economy and without them it'll cause some havoc.

The death of Isabella of Aragon in 1498 due to childbirth only makes it so that Manoel I lapses in his treaty with the Castile/Aragon on expelling the jews.

[Glen]

I think things prior to 1500 go about the same as OTL.

We're barely beginning to explore Africa and India and they're be plenty of set backs , but in a few years we'll get the hang of it and begin doing what we do best.


1497 - The decree was passed and only a token effort was attempted to enforce it. Although the church was willing to either forced baptization and conversion upon the jews, Manoel I tended to look the other way. the Portuguese need the Jews, they fill a vital role in the running of the economy and without them it'll cause some havoc.

The death of Isabella of Aragon in 1498 due to childbirth only makes it so that Manoel I lapses in his treaty with the Castile/Aragon on expelling the jews.

Might I suggest altering this as per my PM?

[Keenir]

1497 - The decree was passed and only a token effort was attempted to enforce it. Although the church was willing to either forced baptization and conversion upon the jews, Manoel I tended to look the other way. the Portuguese need the Jews, they fill a vital role in the running of the economy and without them it'll cause some havoc.

back in that day and age, did people believe that it was teh Jewish religion that made people good at banking, or that it was the coincidence that the better bankers were Jews?

if the latter, I don't see why he wouldn't make sure they converted - that way all hte best bankers are Christians...to the glory of God & all that.

[Glen]

back in that day and age, did people believe that it was teh Jewish religion that made people good at banking, or that it was the coincidence that the better bankers were Jews?

if the latter, I don't see why he wouldn't make sure they converted - that way all hte best bankers are Christians...to the glory of God & all that.

Neither. By and large, Christians were forbidden from usury, and Jews from most common trades. Therefore they filled a necessary but shunned niche in the economy.

The Knights Templar did some equivocating and hair splitting to make a profit off their banking efforts IOTL, for example.

Note, however, things were starting to change. Banking was starting up more.

[Psychomeltdown]

PORTUGAL

1495 John II dies and is succeeded by Manoel I as kind of Portugal.

1496 Manoel I marries Isabella of Asturias.

1497 Isabella of Asturias dies of due to miscarriage.

Decree to expel all Jews from Portugal is signed by King Manoel I. Upon the death of isabella of Asturias, the decree is pretty much forgotten. Though the signing of the decree in the first place allows for the church to begin making moves against the Jews in Portugal.

[Glen]

Just to clarify. This will not be added as Portugal's controller is back and can speak for his own domestic events.

If Portugal objects let him log in and say so

1497
Portugal passes it's own version of the Allabrahh degree, requiring all Jews to leave Portugal.
Thousands of people begin leaving Portugal. the Shepidad Jews from Spain are the first to leave.


This lead to many problems for Portugal, as modern estimates put Portugal's Jewish community as between 5~10% of the entire Portuguese population.

by 1505 the problems were so bad that portugal passed a law forbiding anyone from leaving the country without royal permission. This law lead OTL to both the French and the Dutch almost taking Brazil from Portugal, and is the reason Angola and Mozanbuque, never developed a large Portuguese majority.

[DuQuense]

1497 - The decree was passed and only a token effort was attempted to enforce it. Although the church was willing to either forced baptization and conversion upon the jews, Manoel I tended to look the other way. the Portuguese need the Jews, they fill a vital role in the running of the economy and without them it'll cause some havoc.

The death of Isabella of Aragon in 1498 due to childbirth only makes it so that Manoel I lapses in his treaty with the Castile/Aragon on expelling the jews.1497
Portugal passes a degree requiring all Jews to Convert or leave Portugal.
Boabdil begins attracting a lot of the Spanish Jews, from Granada who had fled to Portugal . Along with them come thousands of Portuguese Jews.


I am going to change this

1497
Portugal passes a degree requiring all Jews to Convert or leave Portugal.
Boabdil begins attracting a lot of the Spanish Jews, from Granada who had fled to Portugal . Having been chased out of Spain They were taking no chances.
Immediately after the degree was passed thousands of Portugal Jews also fled. but as the fact of no time deadline, and the lax enforcement became known, the stream of Jewish immigrants slowed to a trickle.

So there will be no 1505 Degree forbidding Emigration,-- that will change Brazil and Angola.

[Tom Veil]

1497 June-July: Various Iroqoian tribes along the Kaniatarowanenneh (http://wampumchronicles.com/Kaniatarowanenneh.html) River encounter a hairy, pale-skinned tribe of boatsmen called The English. They express a great interest in beaver pelts. The tribes happily trade them, usually in exchange for The English's exquisite tools. The Stadacona and Hochelega are by far the most eager traders, since unlike the other tribes, they know that they can trade their excess goods among the other Haudenosaunee nations.

1498 June: The Mohawk learn that The English who visited Kaniatarowanenneh River have visited the Mohegans. Since the new road to the east only extends to Mohican land, however, the Mohawks miss their chance to interact with these clearly well-travelled boatsmen.

[Glen]

Next thread here.

[Glen]

Next thread here.

Unlocking thread so people may help with timeline review.