What happened here? A look at the 1930's.

[Stalin]

What happened here? Create a scenario on what could have happened to create this mape of 1930's government types and major leaders (The most important being Rivington, Hitler, Stalin, and Amid):

[Diamond]

I just want to compliment you on that map. That is absolutely gorgeous! Did you do all that with just Paint?

Who is Rivington - made-up, or a real person? When I saw that name, I thought at first maybe it had something to do with Guns of the South - the Rivington men and all that. :)

[ConfederateFly]

The map is awesome :D ;) how did you do that?

[Stalin]

I just want to compliment you on that map. That is absolutely gorgeous! Did you do all that with just Paint?

Who is Rivington - made-up, or a real person? When I saw that name, I thought at first maybe it had something to do with Guns of the South - the Rivington men and all that. :)

Oh, he's made up.

[ConfederateFly]

The map is awesome how did you do that?

[Stalin]

The map is awesome :D ;) how did you do that?

Oh, I just took a map which Matt White made on his Historical Atlas of the 20th century and made a few changes to it using MS paint.

Actually, IMO the best map I think I've made so far is this one (using MS paint again!):

[Stalin]

Diamond: Thanks for the compliment. So, do you have an idea what could cause a 1930's like this to occur? To make things easier I'll give you these DOBS to work with:

Rivington: April, 16, 1888
Amid: June, 3, 1890

[Stalin]

Here's a map of the world, circa 1932:

[Archangel Michael]

Crap, Alaska is indepndent...

[Stalin]

Crap, Alaska is indepndent...

Independent, and in the middle of a Civil War between the Communist regime there and freedom fighters. Mexico is in a state of complete anarchy. And the US couldn't have fared that well if it became a de-facto autocracy under President Rivington. Overall, North America isn't a very safe place to be.

[Kuralyov]

Is Amid (Arabia-Iran) made up, also?

And is the 1932 Pres. Hoover our friend J. Edgar, or someone else?

[Stalin]

Is Amid (Arabia-Iran) made up, also?

And is the 1932 Pres. Hoover our friend J. Edgar, or someone else?

Amid is fictional.

President Hoover is actually OTL's President Hoover.

[Paul Spring]

I notice that at some point between 1932 and 1937 Brazil managed to absorb British, Dutch, and French Guinea. Was this by purchase or by war? I can't see Brazil going to war against either Britain or France unless it's a lot more powerful than OTL Brazil was in the 1930s.

[Stalin]

I notice that at some point between 1932 and 1937 Brazil managed to absorb British, Dutch, and French Guinea. Was this by purchase or by war? I can't see Brazil going to war against either Britain or France unless it's a lot more powerful than OTL Brazil was in the 1930s.

Well, that's for you to decide, since this is a "What happened here" scenario. I would think that most likely that land would be purchased, or those colonies would have broken off from Britain to join Brazil (possibly because of nationalist/fascist movements gaining strength there).

[PM Nixon]

Alaska maybe belonged to Russia up until WWI, when it was granted its independence by a war-weary Russian Empire. Then the Communists came in and took power in the 1920s, but now fighting rages between not only Russians seeking a Republic, but Canadians and Americans seeking a new life in what some have called the "Last Frontier".

[Stalin]

Alaska maybe belonged to Russia up until WWI, when it was granted its independence by a war-weary Russian Empire. Then the Communists came in and took power in the 1920s, but now fighting rages between not only Russians seeking a Republic, but Canadians and Americans seeking a new life in what some have called the "Last Frontier".

That's a fairly plausible scenario. It might be part of the reason Rivington assumes dictatorial or de-facto dictatorial powers as well.

[Archangel Michael]

Maybe the US had fought a longer and dealier Civil War, leaving not alot of money to buy Alaska. In 1917, the Czar retreats to Alaska and declares the Imperial State of Alaska. This nation lasts until about 1925, when under support from the Russian Communist Party, the Alaskan Communist Party gains control of the empire and declares the Soviet Alaskan Empire. But the Anglo/American minority rises up in 1931 and wages a Spainish Civil War-style war.

With an earlier Red Scare and several other factors lead to the American Party, a semi-fascist party, to be elected into the Presidencey, and that preson is Theodore Rivington. The American party wipes out all other parties, so that they are small or medium sized, but American is still classified as a multi-party nation until 1940.

In 1935, a bankrupt France and Britian (due to a longer Great War with no American support) sell their Guineas to the Dutch. The Brazillians, who were promised the Guenias, invade and take over all three.

In 1934, the Arabian Republic buys the British and French Midle East Mandates. In 1935, a coup in Persia brings about a pro-Amid gvernment, and they agree to be annexed by the Empire of Arabia, and Amid declares that the Middle East will no longer be owned by imperialistic powers of Europe.

Basically, a longer and deadlier Civil War could lead to the formation of a semi-fascist, anti-black party and gains the presidencey. The US could also still be licking here wounds from the Civil War, and does not enter into the Great War, which lasts until 1920.

[Stalin]

Maybe the US had fought a longer and dealier Civil War, leaving not alot of money to buy Alaska. In 1917, the Czar retreats to Alaska and declares the Imperial State of Alaska. This nation lasts until about 1925, when under support from the Russian Communist Party, the Alaskan Communist Party gains control of the empire and declares the Soviet Alaskan Empire. But the Anglo/American minority rises up in 1931 and wages a Spainish Civil War-style war.

With an earlier Red Scare and several other factors lead to the American Party, a semi-fascist party, to be elected into the Presidencey, and that preson is Theodore Rivington. The American party wipes out all other parties, so that they are small or medium sized, but American is still classified as a multi-party nation until 1940.

In 1935, a bankrupt France and Britian (due to a longer Great War with no American support) sell their Guineas to the Dutch. The Brazillians, who were promised the Guenias, invade and take over all three.

In 1934, the Arabian Republic buys the British and French Midle East Mandates. In 1935, a coup in Persia brings about a pro-Amid gvernment, and they agree to be annexed by the Empire of Arabia, and Amid declares that the Middle East will no longer be owned by imperialistic powers of Europe.

Basically, a longer and deadlier Civil War could lead to the formation of a semi-fascist, anti-black party and gains the presidencey. The US could also still be licking here wounds from the Civil War, and does not enter into the Great War, which lasts until 1920.

That's a pretty well-thought out scenario. The only problem with it is the rise of Hitler to power in Germany. Obviously, Germany wouldn't allow Hitler to rise to power and transform the nation into a total autocracy without some kind of major disaster (i.e. Germany's national humiliation following the "Great War", and/or the Great Depression).

[Archangel Michael]

Germany still lost the war, but because of it being prolonged, the Nazi party will become faster quicker, and Hitler would probally come to power in 1934-35.

[Stalin]

Germany still lost the war, but because of it being prolonged, the Nazi party will become faster quicker, and Hitler would probally come to power in 1934-35.

Okay, that makes some sense, though the idea of a third-party gaining power without off shooting from the Republican or Democratic parties after the 1910's seems a little bit far-fetched. I'll post my own scenario soon.

[Grimm Reaper]

Except that the US is still listed as a traditional democracy after Rivington took power, so where's the autocracy?

Have to consider a few other details:

Given Saudi Arabia's military and economic inferiority and the Wahabi Sunni vs Shiite difference, how could Amid conquer Iran? Not to mention other places like Iraq.

The Alaskan border was one accepted by the British long after the US acquired Alaska, and is widely seen as a big though rather economically minor bribe to the US. Shouldn't it be the older border if Alaska broke away from Russia without an American period? And if it never left Russia until this strife, how is it possibly holding out against Stalin unless the US has formally banned Soviet involvment? It would have to be a third party war by proxy, and either the US, Canada, or both must be making some plans.

[Stalin]

Except that the US is still listed as a traditional democracy after Rivington took power, so where's the autocracy?


Well, it is possible to have a de-facto autocracy in a Democratic nation. Huey Long was able to control Louisiana arguably better than Mussolini was able to control Italy after all. All that would be needed would be for a State of Emergency to be declared, Rivington to control/manipulate the press and the political system, and opposition parties existing but being too weak to really do much of anything for the US to be an Autocratic/Authoritarian Democracy. As for the other questions: Well, this is a what happened here scenario. Obviously something major most have happened to allow for Saudi Arabia (if the Saudis are even in power) to expand rapidly, and for other neighboring nations to be weak monarchies.

[Adam Parsons]

Odd...the only Japanese territory is the Home islands proper. Even Korea and Manchuria are independant of Japanese rule. Was there less of a militaristic mood in the country? Did they even modernize at all?

[Stalin]

Odd...the only Japanese territory is the Home islands proper. Even Korea and Manchuria are independant of Japanese rule. Was there less of a militaristic mood in the country? Did they even modernize at all?

I wouldn't say that. Note that China, Korea, Manchuria, etc. are all either have no government or aren't sovereign nations to begin with. That could mean that Japan has annexed the Koreas, and it is in the process of taking over China and Manchuria as it was in OTL. Or it could mean that there was considerably less of a reactionary, militarist sentiment within Japan as you said. Or that Tojo and his ilk showed more caution in their nationalist expansion. Or both.

[Grey Wolf]

I wouldn't say that. Note that China, Korea, Manchuria, etc. are all either have no government or aren't sovereign nations to begin with. That could mean that Japan has annexed the Koreas, and it is in the process of taking over China and Manchuria as it was in OTL. Or it could mean that there was considerably less of a reactionary, militarist sentiment within Japan as you said. Or that Tojo and his ilk showed more caution in their nationalist expansion. Or both.

What do you mean that they have no government or are not sovereign nations to begin with ? Korea was a sovereign nation de facto even when a Chinse vassal. It gained full independence after the Sino-Japanese War and was only finally subdued by Japan after the Russo-Japanese War. If Japan does NOT occupy it or if the status quo ante-bellum remains from 1904 then it remains independent and sovereign.

With regard to China I am not sure you can have it both ways - either there is a central government with power, or you de facto sovereign nations such as Manchuria where the local warlord established independence from Peking; it was only when he pushed it to establish independence from his Japanese benefactors that Japan invaded explicitly and established Manchukuo. If Japan does not do that, then Manchuria could well continue as a de facto independent state

Grey Wolf