AH.com Planet Militaries

[Glen]

A place for all you warmongers to post your armies. Ward and his designees will give details as needed, and assist people.

[Grey Wolf]

Taking the date of 1930 to be the only barrier to choosing what tanks we have, I would like this one :-

Vickers Independent of 1926 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_A1E1_Independent)

Grey Wolf

[Agentdark]

5,466 x 5= 27330


GNP spent 5,466


Farming 2,769 = 72 extra
Mining 2740 extra =7
Industral 2740 extra =7
Research 200 points
Total spent 13,915

Merchant shiping
20x merchant ships = 400 points

Airforce
150 one eng aircraft =1,500
48x two eng aircraft = 720
Spent on airforce 2,220
16535 running total
Army
20,000 men active = 400 points
40,000 men res = 400 points
152 x arty Guns = 1,520 points
75 x Tanks = 1,500 points
mech 40 units = 400 points (8,000 men mech )
Total spent on army = 4,220

Total spent so far 20,755

Navy
2x pocket BB cost 2,500 points
5x CL over 6,000 tons 2,000 points
20x DD cost 500 points
63x subs cost 1,575
spent on navy 6,575

Total spent 27,330

[LightInfa]

Glorious Military of the People's Republic of Glenish Ecuador!



Ecuadorian People's Army

60,000 regular troops
60,000 reserve troops
25 tanks
50 artillery pieces

Regular Army

I Corp- based at Port Light
25 FlaK 18 guns- distributed to units as needed
-1st Infantry Division (15,000 infantry)
--1st Infantry Brigade
--3rd Infantry Brigade
--7th Infantry Brigade
-4th Cavalry Division (15,000 cavalry)
--5th Ecuadorian Light Horse Regiment
--17th Guards Dragoons Regiment
--23rd Lancers Regiment
--57th Ecuadorian Dragoon Regiment
--Lightsburg Light Cavalry Regiment

II Corp- based at Brownsville
25 FlaK 18 guns- distributed to units as needed
1st Tank Squadron (25 Vickers 6-ton Type B tanks)- distributed to units as needed
-3rd Guards Infantry Division (18,000 infantry)
--8th Infantry Brigade
--12th Infantry Brigade
--Presidential Infantry Brigade
--31st Infantry Brigade
-90th Light Infantry Division (12,000 infantry)
--Congo Jungle Infantry Regiment
--1st President's Ecuadorian Rifles(PER) Regiment
--2nd PER Regiment
--3rd PER Regiment

Reserve Army

-67th Light Infantry Division (12,000 infantry)- Redfield
--77th Infantry Brigade
--45th Infantry Brigade
--37th Infantry Brigade

-Congo Infantry Division (12,000 Infantry)- Fort Congo
--20th Infantry Brigade
--21st Infantry Brigade
--Congo Scouts Infantry Brigade

-23rd Cavalry Division (12,000 cavalry)- Lightsburg
--2nd Cavalry Regiment
--9th Dragoons Regiment
--Lightsburg Light Cavalry Regiment
--15th Lancers Regiment

-25th Infantry Division- (12,000 infantry)- Brownsville
--29th Infantry Brigade
--5th Infantry Brigade
--11th Infantry Brigade

-2nd Infantry Division- (10,000 infantry, 5,000 cavalry)- (Port Light)
--24th Infantry Brigade
--35th Infantry Brigade
--31st Light Horse Regiment
--39th Dragoons Regiment



Ecuadorian People's Navy

50 MTBs based at Port Light Naval Station
All PRGE ships have their names start with EPS- Ecuadorian People's Ship



Ecuadorian People's Air Corps

40 Hawker Hart Mk I Light Bombers
10 Hawker Hart Two-Seat fighter version

5 main airfields in the PRGE

LightInfa Field- Port Light
Clark Field- Redfield
Fort Congo Airbase- Fort Congo
Brownsville Military Air Station- Brownsville
Lightsburg International Airport- Lightsburg

[Locke]

I am confused as to whether buying units adds to your population.

[LightInfa]

I am confused as to whether buying units adds to your population.

Buying units does not add to your population. It just allocates parts of your population into the military.

[Locke]

Thanks you!

[LightInfa]

-2nd Infantry Division- (10,000 infantry, 5,000 cavalry)- (Port Light)
--24th Infantry Brigade
--35th Infantry Brigade
--31st Light Horse Regiment
--39th Dragoons Regiment



The number of cavalry on the 2nd Infantry Division should number 2,000 not 5,000.

[Douglas]

7000 pts allocated

Army (6000 pts)
111,500 "Regular" quality troops (2230 pts)
120,000 "Reserve" quality troops (1200 pts)
114,000 "National Police" quality troops (570 pts)
170 Artillery Pieces (1700 pts)
15 Tanks (300 pts)

Navy (300 pts)
1 CL (200 pts)
2 TB (30 pts)
14 MTB (70 pts)

Air Force (200 pts)
4 Two-engine aircraft (60 pts)
14 Single-engine aircraft (140 pts)

Merchant Marine (500 pts)
12 Tankers (300 pts)
10 Merchants (200 pts)

[Ward]

Army
20,000 men active men in the military 400 points
60,000 men in the national police force cost 300 points
60 ,000 men in the Army Res .cost 600 points
100 tanks cost 2,000 points
100 Pieces of Arty cost 1,000 points
Total spent 4,300

AirForce
302 one Eng Aircraft 3,020
40 Two Eng Aircraft cost 600 points
total spent 3,620

Navy
1x BC 1914 class cost 2,000 points
2x CA cost 1,000 points
4x CL over 6,000 tons cost 1,600 points
20x Subs cost 500 points
30x DD cost of 750 points
10x TB cost of 150 points
12x MTB cost 60 points
Total spent 6,060

[Jared]

I'm trying to get my head around the relative usefulness of the various kinds of ships, for the design of my navy. Does anyone have any links/descriptions of what kind of ships would be useful given the following conditions:

1. A nation with a relatively far-flung set of sub-nations - picture at least the distance between the British Isles and North America, or more.

2. A large merchant marine which needs protection.

3. A nation which wants to ensure freedom of trade across the seas.

4. A nation which, if necessary, will need to conduct blockades of hostile powers' ports, or punitive actions at a distance.

5. A nation which has a considerable stretch of ocean between its own main islands and any potential enemies - but which relies on the navy (and, to a bit, on the air force) to protect it, rather than having a big land army.

6. A nation which really, really wants to have at least one carrier, but which figures it may well be a waste of money.

Any thoughts on what kind of navy I should be buying?

[Fellatio Nelson]

1. A nation with a relatively far-flung set of sub-nations - picture at least the distance between the British Isles and North America, or more.

2. A large merchant marine which needs protection.

3. A nation which wants to ensure freedom of trade across the seas.

4. A nation which, if necessary, will need to conduct blockades of hostile powers' ports, or punitive actions at a distance.

5. A nation which has a considerable stretch of ocean between its own main islands and any potential enemies - but which relies on the navy (and, to a bit, on the air force) to protect it, rather than having a big land army.

6. A nation which really, really wants to have at least one carrier, but which figures it may well be a waste of money.

Any thoughts on what kind of navy I should be buying?

In the 1930s?

1, 2, 3, 4, would be covered by cruisers and the odd battlecruiser as a flotilla leader to ensure local dominance.

4, Would be assisted with ocean-going submarines (which are relatively cheap compared to other warships).

4, 5, 6 would be served by battleships and cruisers; with light units - destroyers and MTBs and submarines - for coastal defence. Land-based naval aviation (as one carrier would spent around 1/3 of its time in port and tie up escorts).

[Grey Wolf]

I'm trying to get my head around the relative usefulness of the various kinds of ships, for the design of my navy. Does anyone have any links/descriptions of what kind of ships would be useful given the following conditions:

1. A nation with a relatively far-flung set of sub-nations - picture at least the distance between the British Isles and North America, or more.

2. A large merchant marine which needs protection.

3. A nation which wants to ensure freedom of trade across the seas.

4. A nation which, if necessary, will need to conduct blockades of hostile powers' ports, or punitive actions at a distance.

5. A nation which has a considerable stretch of ocean between its own main islands and any potential enemies - but which relies on the navy (and, to a bit, on the air force) to protect it, rather than having a big land army.

6. A nation which really, really wants to have at least one carrier, but which figures it may well be a waste of money.

Any thoughts on what kind of navy I should be buying?

Generally, I would say it depends on how much money you have available for your military

Cruisers would be better placed to have the range and defend against like marauders. A small battleship would be useful but is very expensive compared to additional cruisers, even a pocketbattleship.

I've gone for a large force of submarines personally, with the nucleus of my navy heavy cruisers, large light cruisers and a couple of seaplane carriers to give me scouting ability and some nominal attack capabilities, having costed a seaplane carrier to half that for an aircraft carrier

Grey Wolf

[Jared]

In the 1930s?

1, 2, 3, 4, would be covered by cruisers and the odd battlecruiser as a flotilla leader to ensure local dominance.

Given the points costs, I suspect it would be one very odd battlecruiser... things are rather expensive!

4, Would be assisted with ocean-going submarines (which are relatively cheap compared to other warships).

True, although submarines can't really shell enemy ports. Useful for sneaking into harbours and sinking ships though, I suppose.

4, 5, 6 would be served by battleships and cruisers; with light units - destroyers and MTBs and submarines - for coastal defence. Land-based naval aviation (as one carrier would spent around 1/3 of its time in port and tie up escorts).

Excellent point re: the carrier - why pay for the big block of floating steel when the planes can be based on land and still trained in anti-ship warfare?

Battleships are probably out of my price range, alas, except for maybe a pocket battleship or so if they're worthwhile. Or an older ship - pre-Dreadnought, perhaps - but I suspect that would be too slow, too outdated, and still too expensive.

For cruisers, any thoughts on the best mix between light and heavy cruisers?

[Jared]

Generally, I would say it depends on how much money you have available for your military

As a rough estimate, I have about a quarter of your budget... although I don't need to spend it on a large army too, since my nation sits on a few islands.

Cruisers would be better placed to have the range and defend against like marauders. A small battleship would be useful but is very expensive compared to additional cruisers, even a pocketbattleship.

I'd like a pocket battleship and a battlecruiser, but based on a quick eyeball of the costs, that's 3250 EPs, which would definitely be over half my budget. Ouch. Cruisers it has to be, then.

I've gone for a large force of submarines personally, with the nucleus of my navy heavy cruisers, large light cruisers and a couple of seaplane carriers to give me scouting ability and some nominal attack capabilities, having costed a seaplane carrier to half that for an aircraft carrier

Looks like it'll have to be cruisers plus submarines, then.

[Grey Wolf]

I have a fleet of 30 submarines, divided into 3 forces

Force 1

2 mine-laying submarines
4 transport submarines (based on WW1 German merchant subs)
4 submarine cruisers


Force 2

2 mine-laying submarines
8 ocean-going submarines


Force 3

2 mine-laying submarines
8 ocean-going submarines


Forces 1 and 2 are based at the Northern city of Thornberg.
Force 3 is based at Palmares in the islands

- - - - - -

I decided these four types basically cover all my needs in submarines. Each force needs SOME mine-laying capacity, whilst the specialised force is based at Submarine Headquarters.

None of these types of submarine are anachronistic, and I believe all saw service within WW1. Obviously I would prefer to have slightly more modern ones than that ! The submarine cruisers are perhaps analogous to Surcouf, but if you consider that unacceptable (tho' ordered in 1927 it wasn't commissioned till 1934) I could find RN examples which would do what I want for the submarine type.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[LightInfa]

Ecuadorian People's Navy

50 MTBs based at Port Light Naval Station
All PRGE ships have their names start with EPS- Ecuadorian People's Ship



I am changing the composition of the navy. See the new economic report for the PRGE on the economic thread.

Ecuadorian People's Navy

13 submarines of the Japanese KD3 type. All of these shall be based at the Port Light Naval Station.

[Psychomeltdown]

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing that naval power is the only way to go.


Military

Army: 1000
35000 troops: 700
15000 Res. Troops: 150
30000 Police: 150

Navy: 4375
1 1919 BB: 2250 (Psymerica Combat Vessel (PCV) Burning Water)
2 CA: 1000
4 CL under 6kt: 800
8 DD: 200
5 Subs: 125

Non Military: 600
8 Tankers: 200
20 Merchant Ships: 400

[Landshark]

1 1919 BB: 2250 (Psymerica Combat Vessel (PCV) Burning Water)

If that persists you should consult a urologist.

[Jared]

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing that naval power is the only way to go.

Depends if you have a big land border with someone else... and no matter how good your navy is, you'd still need lots of troops to take over an enemy country. ;)

[Psychomeltdown]

If that persists you should consult a urologist.

Actually it's a translation: To'diitlthidii.

and hey, my big ship will crush alla yours. :p

[Psychomeltdown]

Depends if you have a big land border with someone else... and no matter how good your navy is, you'd still need lots of troops to take over an enemy country. ;)

Well you gotta make sure they ain't got a navy to fight back when you start landing your troops, and sadly I share no boarders with any of my enemies, therefore I cannot mount a large enough army to crush my foes.

sigh.

[Landshark]

Actually it's a translation: To'diitlthidii.

and hey, my big ship will crush alla yours. :p

Only if my air force sinks it while it's over one of my submarines.

[Jared]

Only if my air force sinks it while it's over one of my submarines.

Sailors see ships. Pilots see targets.

[Jared]

Just a couple of more naval questions, for people who know about such things (i.e. not me.) The ships which can be bought include CLs under 6k tons, CLs over 6k tons, CAs, pre-Dreadnoughts, pocket battleships (also classed as heavy cruisers, as I understand it), and battleships.

As I understand it, CAs were pretty much obsolete by 1920 or 1930, since they were more expensive than big CLs and the CLs had smaller but faster-firing guns which could damage any target that a CA could hit anyway. So that would make CAs pretty much useless for a modern (c. 1930) navy. Would that mean that it would be better to have, say, one pocket battleship rather than 2 CAs, and that a big CL would be better than a CA (cheaper and pretty much the same effect)? A battlecruiser would probably be better than any number of CAs, I suspect, but it's also a tad too expensive. :)

[Ward]

Just a couple of more naval questions, for people who know about such things (i.e. not me.) The ships which can be bought include CLs under 6k tons, CLs over 6k tons, CAs, pre-Dreadnoughts, pocket battleships (also classed as heavy cruisers, as I understand it), and battleships.

As I understand it, CAs were pretty much obsolete by 1920 or 1930, since they were more expensive than big CLs and the CLs had smaller but faster-firing guns which could damage any target that a CA could hit anyway. So that would make CAs pretty much useless for a modern (c. 1930) navy. Would that mean that it would be better to have, say, one pocket battleship rather than 2 CAs, and that a big CL would be better than a CA (cheaper and pretty much the same effect)? A battlecruiser would probably be better than any number of CAs, I suspect, but it's also a tad too expensive. :)

Heavy cruisers evolved from the light cruisers of World War I. The first heavy cruisers were the British Hawkins class (1915) of 9,750 tons that made 30 knots and were armed with seven 7.5 inch guns. These ships were directly descended from the preceding Birmingham (1911) group of Town class 5,440 ton light cruisers and at the time were referred to as "improved light cruisers". They remained the largest and most powerful cruisers in the world for several years.

The Washington Naval Treaty of 1921 sought to stop an arms race in warships. It restricted the construction of warships of more than 10,000 tons standard displacement or with armament greater than 8-inch (203 mm) guns. The major naval powers then started to build cruisers up to those limits. These were usually between 9,000 and 10,000 tons and were typically armed with eight to ten 8-inch guns. In 1930 the Washington Naval Treaty was extended by the London Naval Treaty which split the treaty definition of a cruiser into Heavy Cruiser with guns larger than 6.1 inch (155 mm) and "light cruiser" with smaller caliber guns, creating the heavy cruiser as a category of warship. The upper limit of 10,000 tons displacement still applied to both.

Most heavy cruisers had twin main gun turrets and torpedo tubes. HMS Norfolk was typical, with eight 8-inch guns in four turrets, eight 4-inch (102 mm) anti-aircraft guns, twenty-four smaller automatic anti-aircraft guns, and eight torpedo tubes. United States heavy cruisers were unique in mounting triple main gun turrets and no torpedo tubes, with a more powerful anti-aircraft battery. USS New Orleans was typical, with nine 8-inch guns in triple turrets, two forward and one aft, eight 5-inch (127 ) anti-aircraft guns, and eight machine guns.

In the 1930s several navies began to secretly flout the tonnage limits. The Japanese who were planning on withdrawing from the treaty built the Mogami class with a displacement of over 12,000 tons. She was designed so that her five 6.1-inch gun triple turrets could be replaced with twin 8-inch gun turrets and the ships of the class were rearmed in that way shortly before World War II. Japan withdrew from the Washington Naval Treaty in 1936, after which there was no effective regulation.


Later developments
By the mid 1930s, Britain, France and Italy had ceased building heavy cruisers. A weakness of heavy cruisers was that they were usually too weak in armour. Within the tonnage limits, mounting the heavier guns left them with insufficient protection against a ship with the same size weapons. Armament based on 8-inch (203 mm) guns was considered overall to be inferior to that using 6-inch (152 mm) guns. The latter fired faster and more of them could be carried for the same weight as for the 8 inch. The heavier shell of the 8 inch was little advantage because ships that could withstand a 6 inch (152 mm) hit were well-protected against 8 inch shells. This led to the construction of "light cruisers" of 10,000 tons with twelve to fifteen 6 inch guns that were otherwise identical to heavy cruisers.

Big gunned cruisers were still being built. The United States built heavy cruisers up to World War II, culminating in the heavily armored New Orleans class and USS Wichita, and continued building the larger Baltimore class during the war. The Germans built their Hipper class heavy cruisers of 14,000 tons, although the Anglo-German Naval Agreement was supposed to limit their shipbuilding.

The United States built the last heavy cruisers, finishing shortly after the war. The biggest were the Alaska class of "large cruiser", which were often referred to as battlecruisers because their size and armament approximated that of a small battleship. The Baltimore class consisted of seventeen ships, including six of the slightly different Oregon City class. The Des Moines class were the last heavy cruisers built, considerably larger, and with new rapid-firing 8-inch guns. Additionally, two aircraft carriers were built on a Baltimore-derived hull, the Saipan class (CVL-48 class).

The heavy cruisers fell out of use after World War II. Some existing US heavy cruisers lasted until the 1970s, sometimes after conversion to guided missile cruisers (US hull symbol CG).

In the United States Navy, the term first came into official use in 1930, with the hull classification symbol CA which it took over from the Armored cruiser. Earlier heavy cruisers had been given the CL designation (for light cruisers), and were then reclassified. With the development of guided missile cruisers in the 1950s, the designation system changed to designate cruisers by their primary armament. Primarily gun-armed cruisers were designated "gun cruisers" (hull classification symbol CA) while primarily missile-armed cruisers were designated "guided missile cruisers" (hull classification symbol CG).

Many other nations built or possessed heavy cruisers in the period 1920-1945, namely Britain, Japan, France, Italy, Germany, USSR, Spain, and Australia. They played a similar role to that of the armored cruisers 40 years earlier.

The only heavy cruiser in existence as of 2006 is the USS Salem (a museum ship).

[Jared]

Many other nations built or possessed heavy cruisers in the period 1920-1945, namely Britain, Japan, France, Italy, Germany, USSR, Spain, and Australia. They played a similar role to that of the armored cruisers 40 years earlier.

Okay, thanks, that makes a lot of sense. Time to make some decisions about my nations' navy. :)

[Ward]

here is What a TB is http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/TheShips/Classes/Dragen_Class(1930).htm

And a short history on DD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer

This is to help those of you who have no knowage of what a War ship is by class .

[Locke]

How much would forts cost? And what about Navy bases and airfields?