1493 Map Room

[Glen]

Should we use a basemap something like this? We're going to need something for all those islands....

[pompejus]

This is a little too early, but a very cool and useful map of europe nonetheless.

http://www.maproom.org/00/01/present.php?m=0041

I always use this map for the HRE
http://www.shadowedrealm.com/maps/map.php?id=31

This one is closer to our date and is also useful
http://www.shadowedrealm.com/maps/map.php?id=48

At that site are also other useful maps

[Tom Veil]

In that regard, here's the best base map of North America that I could find.

[Glen]

A 1477 Map

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/central_europe_1477.jpg

[Tom Veil]

Asia c 1500 (http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/asia/asia1500large.gif)
North India under the Lodhis (http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00maplinks/medieval/schmidtset/schmidt17_8_9.jpg)
India 1525 (http://www215.pair.com/sacoins/images/maps/babur_1526.gif)
South India 1500s (http://www215.pair.com/sacoins/images/maps/deccan_16thc.gif)
Another Asia c 1500 (http://worldmapsonline.com/UnivHist/30362_6.gif)

[Glen]

Okay, I was trying to rope in Diamond to do a world basemap for us, but he's not able to (though I thank him for considering it).

Need volunteers to work on a 1493 world basemap.

[Glen]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Italy_1494_v2.png

[Knight Templar]

World 1493

[Glen]

World 1493

First, KT, let me thank you for being willing to take on helping form a 1493 map of the world in association with our 1493 project.

While this map is a great start, there are some things we need to consider working on.

First, Savoy at this time is not Habsburg, and indeed the Burgundian lands and Austrian lands are held by different Habsburg individuals, and should be show as such somehow.

Second, we need to show more clearly the various islands in the Pacific and the Caribbean, as they will be very important over the centuries.

Third, we probably need a separate map of the Holy Roman Empire in its minutiae at this time to go along as a companion....or we need a bigger map that would allow a sizable amount of that to be visualized.

Thank you SO MUCH for helping us!

And we need everyone else who loves maps to help as well. Remember, though, we need to keep the files in GIF format, for when we animate the Monster!

Which reminds me. As a rule, all maps must show the date in the map itself, so that when animated we know what time each frame shows. At least the year which the map is of.

Any ideas where best to put that?

[The Sicilian]

First a nitpick: Naples isn't part of Spain in 1493.
Second: What constitutes a 'nation'. I think that some of the more politicaly developed tribes in the Americas (e.g. the Haudenosaunee) should be shown on the map in white.

[Glen]

First a nitpick: Naples isn't part of Spain in 1493.

Agreed.


Second: What constitutes a 'nation'. I think that some of the more politicaly developed tribes in the Americas (e.g. the Haudenosaunee) should be shown on the map in white.

Agreed.

[pa_dutch]

I'd definately be willing to help... Perhaps using a larger base map, we could color the countries that are player controlled to differentiate them from the NPCs? For player controlled tribal and band societies, just a simple name label where they generally lived might be sufficient?

[Glen]

I'd definately be willing to help... Perhaps using a larger base map, we could color the countries that are player controlled to differentiate them from the NPCs? For player controlled tribal and band societies, just a simple name label where they generally lived might be sufficient?

I'm not certain how best to handle all this. A numerical system early (number each nation and put a legend on) might work best, and then as we see who the powers are that develop over time, we can add colors retrospectively.

Alternatively, we can color in who are the 'powers' in 1493, and follow them forward through time, with perhaps some of their successor states inheriting their colors or shades thereof.

But first and foremost is getting our basemap to show what we need....

[Scarecrow]

I'm not certain how best to handle all this. A numerical system early (number each nation and put a legend on) might work best, and then as we see who the powers are that develop over time, we can add colors retrospectively.

Alternatively, we can color in who are the 'powers' in 1493, and follow them forward through time, with perhaps some of their successor states inheriting their colors or shades thereof.

But first and foremost is getting our basemap to show what we need....

well as per your request Glen I have started on a map, and here are my ideas:

1) a first map using colours for each player rather then for individual nations.

2) a world map, and a map of Europe and a map of the Americas.

[Glen]

well as per your request Glen I have started on a map, and here are my ideas:

1) a first map using colours for each player rather then for individual nations.

2) a world map, and a map of Europe and a map of the Americas.

Yours and Knight Templar's efforts are greatly, greatly appreciated.

Damn, this is going to be a kick-ass timeline!:D

[Scarecrow]

Yours and Knight Templar's efforts are greatly, greatly appreciated.

Damn, this is going to be a kick-ass timeline!:D

one can only hope :P

I had the thought that it might have been easier not to select the players lands by country, but by ruler or certain family, but its a bit late for that.:p Next time, methinks.

I have some important uni work over the next few weeks, so it might take a while.

[AJNolte]

For those who don't know, I am blind, so maps are a big problem for me. Would someone mind telling me just exactly what borders the Kingdom of Congo at the present time?

Thanks,

A. J.

[Knight Templar]

now then?:)

[Tom Veil]

Another map of Native America. On the plus side, it's HUGE.
Unfortunately:
* It's only the USA
* The date is unclear
* It seems to leave out some minor tribes (like the Wyoming of Pennsylvania, who survived into the late 1600s)
*It'll be hard to format, since it's a scan from a book.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/united_states/early_indian_east.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/united_states/early_indian_west.jpg

[Keenir]

now then?:)

excellent map.

one question - it might just be my eyes, but is this map suggesting Moldovia and Wallachia are under the rule of Constantinople?

other than that, superb.

[Knight Templar]

excellent map.

one question - it might just be my eyes, but is this map suggesting Moldovia and Wallachia are under the rule of Constantinople?

other than that, superb.
If you mean this part yes they were Ottoman vassals

[Analytical Engine]

one can only hope :P

I had the thought that it might have been easier not to select the players lands by country, but by ruler or certain family, but its a bit late for that.:p Next time, methinks.


I think we did that anyway (ruler, that is). :p :cool:

[marl_d]

27972

Red is Swedish
Blue is Poland/Lithuanian
Green is Russian
Pink is Riga, semi autonomous in Russian sphere of influence, but open to anyone to use for trade


ok, this is probably the wrong place but i couldn't attach this to a pm, so i'll put it here for serebryakov, LightInfa too look at

this is a proposed division of Livonia between the three powers

[LightInfa]

27972

Red is Swedish
Blue is Poland/Lithuanian
Green is Russian
Pink is Riga, semi autonomous in Russian sphere of influence, but open to anyone to use for trade


ok, this is probably the wrong place but i couldn't attach this to a pm, so i'll put it here for serebryakov, LightInfa too look at

this is a proposed division of Livonia between the three powers

We will agree to this proposed division.

[Glen]

27972

Red is Swedish
Blue is Poland/Lithuanian
Green is Russian
Pink is Riga, semi autonomous in Russian sphere of influence, but open to anyone to use for trade


ok, this is probably the wrong place but i couldn't attach this to a pm, so i'll put it here for serebryakov, LightInfa too look at

this is a proposed division of Livonia between the three powers

Excuse me? :eek:

[marl_d]

sorry if i put this in the wrong place glen, i couldn't get it on a PM, so i figured this was the best spot, it's nothing official just a proposal

[Glen]

sorry if i put this in the wrong place glen, i couldn't get it on a PM, so i figured this was the best spot, it's nothing official just a proposal

okay then.

[BlackMage]

OK, here's a map of Marege and north-west Kai Djawa, with Aboriginal tribes circa 1500.

Just a few tribal notes:

The Nakara, Dangbon, Rembarnga, and Gungurugomi were all prominent Yolgnu allies, and were thus annexed by Gowa in 1501.
The Macassans enjoy good relations with most tribes, particularly in Northern Marege, but particularly with the Gunivugi, Iwaidja, Woolna, Gunwinggu, and Limilngan, who have become so dependent upon Macassan technology and trade to become satellite nations.
The Macassans (I use Macassans and Gowan interchangeably) have pearling outposts in Yawuru, Worora, and (unpictured; the arrow going off-screen indicates it) Nimanburu territory, but enjoy good relations with most tribes on the coast.The inland is still largely unknown, but Macassan technology (and thus, economic links) are beginning to slowly filter inland through trade.

[Aussey]

this is for me and AJNolte...

the angolas, or, k/congos, circa 1500...

the red borders are from other maps....

[Tom Veil]

OK, here's a map of Marege and north-west Kai Djawa, with Aboriginal tribes circa 1500.


Very cool! I had no idea that historians had been able to synthesize such detailed information about the aboriginal tribes pre-European contact.

[Aussey]

sorry. here's a better map of what we're working with. major powers are in red. (they're also the Catholic powers...)

[Tom Veil]

When the good mapmakers ignore projects for too long, this is the kind of demonspawn maps that result.
Key:
Light green is underpopulated (due to pre-1492 catastrophies).
Dark purple are my Iroquoian nations.
Light purple are the other Iroquoian nations.
Red is ramiero (powhatan).
Orange is Glen (mohicans and manhattans).
Yellow is Pa Dutch (Wabanaki Confederacy)
Dark green is BBJ1580 (Wampanoag)

[Keenir]

just in case nobody's made one yet.

I think we need at least a concept map, for those of us who think better with visual aides.
(ie, where are the Mamluks as of 2 January 1500? "North Africa" is a big place)

[Keenir]

I'd forgotten all about this thread....(not sure how I managed that)...sorry.

so I made this: http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1095101#post1095101

[Qazaq2007]

The Mamluks were in Egypt, Levant, and Western Arabia. Here is a map showing the approximate extent of the Mamluk Sultanate. I left the modern borders on the map so you can see what present day countries the Mamluk Sultanate would have covered. Just my example of a concept map you have had in mind, Keenir.

[SionEwig]

Shouldn't this be over in Shared Worlds in the Collaborative Projects sub-forum?

[Aussey]

thanks to everyone who helped with this!

[Glen]

We Need A Complete Map!!!!

[marl_d]

no...don't be silly why would we need something like that ;):D:cool:

[Keenir]

We Need A Complete Map!!!!

as people tell me when I ask for a map: try making one yourself, if you need it so badly.
*shrugs*

[Tom Veil]

If Duq approves, here's a map of South Asia in 1510:

Red: Vijaynagara
Orange: Bharata (Rajputana)
Yellow: Sindh
Green: Berar
Purple: Kashmir
Brown: Orissa
Tan: Minor nations
Black: capital cities

[Glen]

as people tell me when I ask for a map: try making one yourself, if you need it so badly.
*shrugs*

And I am already overextended with r/l AND editing in the event entries. Also, I work in Paint, for goodness sake!

And what I'm really asking for here is not just a map, but THE map, the one that will serve as the base for a series of maps stretching over 500 years of history in a project that will take about a year to complete.

So I'm asking for people with great map skills, great programs, and hopefully a little sliver more of time than me to help put this together.

[Keenir]

Also, I work in Paint, for goodness sake!

so did I.

And what I'm really asking for here is not just a map, but THE map, the one that will serve as the base for a series of maps stretching over 500 years of history in a project that will take about a year to complete.

it might be that folks are a bit (or more than a bit) overwhelmed by such a tall order.

So I'm asking for people with great map skills, great programs, and hopefully a little sliver more of time than me to help put this together.

so was I.

[The Sicilian]

I say that we do it collaboratively and break it up into sections that the map-competant people in this project can handle. The base map for 1493 will be the hardest, because everything after that will just be tweaking. That is if we arn't going to use the map that Knight Templar has made, and instead we use the BAM from Wikipedia.

[Glen]

I say that we do it collaboratively and break it up into sections that the map-competant people in this project can handle. The base map for 1493 will be the hardest, because everything after that will just be tweaking. That is if we arn't going to use the map that Knight Templar has made, and instead we use the BAM from Wikipedia.

We could start with Knight Templar's map, but the problem there is that the islands of the Caribbean and Pacific are not delineated clearly enough for use, so we'd have to do some serious modifying. Then we'd need to do some revamping of the New World and Africa. And don't even get me started on the Holy Roman Empire....but otherwise, it might be a good start.

The map from Wikipedia is another matter. Shows islands relatively well, but does things to coastline that are decidedly unwholesome. We'd also need to start from scratch with every border.

[marl_d]

http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1500.htm

check out that map, i just found it, it's great for the European/middle east areas

[Glen]

http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1500.htm

check out that map, i just found it, it's great for the European/middle east areas

Ah, marl has rediscovered euratlas!:) Thank you for providing a link.

[marl_d]

no problem, it's really helpful to me :D

[euio]

The Mamluks were in Egypt, Levant, and Western Arabia. Here is a map showing the approximate extent of the Mamluk Sultanate. I left the modern borders on the map so you can see what present day countries the Mamluk Sultanate would have covered. Just my example of a concept map you have had in mind, Keenir.
It also had Cyrenia.

[Atom]

And what I'm really asking for here is not just a map, but THE map, the one that will serve as the base for a series of maps stretching over 500 years of history in a project that will take about a year to complete.

There has been suggestions that we break up the map based on a section. I call south america. Now too the historical atlas!

[Glen]

There has been suggestions that we break up the map based on a section. I call south america. Now too the historical atlas!

Not break up the map, but the drawing of the borders on the map.

First question....which basemap to start with for the world?

[The Sicilian]

Not break up the map, but the drawing of the borders on the map.

First question....which basemap to start with for the world?
Well, we have two extremes:

First we have the standard map from the OTL maps thread. The advantage is that we already have a map of 1493 made and it is pretty easy to modify. The disadvantage is that it is too small for our purposes; it fails to show the Pacific and Carribean properly and the HRE is a huge problem with that one.

Second we have the Wikipedia BAM. It is certainly large enough and shows plenty of islands. But it butchers the coastline and we would have to start from scratch.

I propose a compromise; we use the blank world maps from Wikipedia ( a bunch are here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Blank_maps_of_the_world). They show the islands pretty decently in my opinion. We wouldn't exactly have to start from scratch on those, as we have the modern borders already. It shouldn't take that long to make a 1493 version of it, especially if we post a map challenge up in Alternate BMGW. Or we could ask someone from wikipedia to make one. User:Astrokey44 has made a few maps for me before. I'm sure that he'd be up to the challenge.

[Tom Veil]

now then?:)

Reposting KT's map. I believe that it will be MUCH easier for us to just use this base map along with regional base maps in the most dynamic areas (Europe, Norasia, Islands) rather than try to create a single map that is high-resolution enough to capture small border changes.

So let's list all the changes that need to be made to this map to make it our 1493 base world map. (We'll still need an editable Europe map, but first things first...) I'll start:

1. In Northeast N America, add Micmac/Wabanaki, Haudenosaunee, Susquehanna, Erie, Attawandaron, Mohican, Mohegan, Wampanoag, & Powhatan

[Tom Veil]

No other complaints? If there are none, I might actually make this map myself!:eek:

[Atom]

The Musica need to be added in South america. I can take care of that. I will also revue the Inca borders, and see if there is anything else we need to add.

[Glen]

Reposting KT's map. I believe that it will be MUCH easier for us to just use this base map along with regional base maps in the most dynamic areas (Europe, Norasia, Islands) rather than try to create a single map that is high-resolution enough to capture small border changes.

So let's list all the changes that need to be made to this map to make it our 1493 base world map. (We'll still need an editable Europe map, but first things first...) I'll start:

1. In Northeast N America, add Micmac/Wabanaki, Haudenosaunee, Susquehanna, Erie, Attawandaron, Mohican, Mohegan, Wampanoag, & Powhatan

2. Savoy should not be colored Habsburg purple. Saluzzo and Montferrat are missing on it, but they are awfully small. Republic of Ragusa also missing.

3. That small Persian coastal area just North of the Strait of Hormuz doesn't appear on any of the maps from this approximate time period that I can find, which all show it as part of the White Sheep Turkomen holdings. Similar comments about the small areas along the West Coast of the Caspian Sea.

[euio]

Reposting KT's map. I believe that it will be MUCH easier for us to just use this base map along with regional base maps in the most dynamic areas (Europe, Norasia, Islands) rather than try to create a single map that is high-resolution enough to capture small border changes.

So let's list all the changes that need to be made to this map to make it our 1493 base world map. (We'll still need an editable Europe map, but first things first...) I'll start:

1. In Northeast N America, add Micmac/Wabanaki, Haudenosaunee, Susquehanna, Erie, Attawandaron, Mohican, Mohegan, Wampanoag, & Powhatan
What about the Iroquois?:confused:

[General_Paul]

As for my nations, the Ming Dynasty, the Timurid Dynasty, and the Chagati Khanate, I've got a few concerns for the 1493 base map. Manchuria shouldn't be totally green, there were scattered Manchu tribes throughout modern Manchuria, spilling out into Mogolia and Siberia, though the Jurchen tribes carried the most ammount of power.

As for the Timurids and Chagati, well, the borders there are uber confusing and not well defined in any textbook or website I tried to reference for the period of time we're looking at.

[Keenir]

No other complaints? If there are none, I might actually make this map myself!:eek:

the Uighurs are presently between states (literally and figuratively - last time they had a state was shortly after the T'ang Dynasty)

the Bushmen have a territory but no states as we define such.

Pohnpei is an island, and a tiny one at that.

all of my other areas are represented on the map; thank you.

[Tom Veil]

What about the Iroquois?:confused:
"Haudenosaunee" is the Iroquois word for the Iroquois Confederacy. I've taken to using Haudenosaunee to avoid confusion with the Iroquois culture or Iroquois "race" ... but well, I guess sometimes Haudenosaunee causes confusion. :o

[The Sicilian]

Naples controls Sicily, all of the former Papal states outside of Rome and the Kingdom of Jerusalem (map here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Near_East_1135.svg).

I'm thinking that maybe we should give Sicily Venice's or Savoy's color, as those two seem a bit less active in world affairs lately.

[Glen]

Naples controls Sicily, all of the former Papal states outside of Rome and the Kingdom of Jerusalem (map here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Near_East_1135.svg).

I'm thinking that maybe we should give Sicily Venice's or Savoy's color, as those two seem a bit less active in world affairs lately.

Messiniano, we're talking about the very first map, for OTL in 1493. You need to post the above information (including WHEN they happen) in the 1493 Border Changes thread.

[Smaug]

The Musica need to be added in South america. I can take care of that. I will also revue the Inca borders, and see if there is anything else we need to add.

For what its worth, I have the Muisca in control of most of Eastern Columbia, Western Venezuela, and the Venezuelan coast, from just west of OTL Maracaibo, to the Orinoco river. I also consider OTL Trinidad and Tobago, and the small islands north of Venezuela to be under my control.

I have no plans for my possessions on OTL Hispaniola, Damn Blankets! :)

The Huasetec are located in the general area of Vera Cruz.

Benin is obvious, with some control of the areas to the NW.

[The Sicilian]

Messiniano, we're talking about the very first map, for OTL in 1493. You need to post the above information (including WHEN they happen) in the 1493 Border Changes thread.
Sorry :o, though I did post them (w/ dates) on the border changes thread.

BTW, shouldn't that long block in E. Africa be fragmented?

[Glen]

For what its worth, I have the Muisca in control of most of Eastern Columbia, Western Venezuela, and the Venezuelan coast, from just west of OTL Maracaibo, to the Orinoco river. I also consider OTL Trinidad and Tobago, and the small islands north of Venezuela to be under my control.

I have no plans for my possessions on OTL Hispaniola, Damn Blankets! :)

The Huasetec are located in the general area of Vera Cruz.

Benin is obvious, with some control of the areas to the NW.

We need their OTL 1493 borders first, Smaug.

[Glen]

For what its worth, I have the Muisca in control of most of Eastern Columbia, Western Venezuela, and the Venezuelan coast, from just west of OTL Maracaibo, to the Orinoco river. I also consider OTL Trinidad and Tobago, and the small islands north of Venezuela to be under my control.

I have no plans for my possessions on OTL Hispaniola, Damn Blankets! :)

The Huasetec are located in the general area of Vera Cruz.

Benin is obvious, with some control of the areas to the NW.

Wikipedia's placement of the Huastec. Note also that they refer to themselves as the Teenek, so perhaps we ought to use that term.

"historically based in the states of Hidalgo, Veracruz, San Luis Potosí and Tamaulipas concentrated along the route of the Panuco River and along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. The Huastec people call themselves Teenek."

The Totonac are just South of them it appears. Wikipedia's comment on their range:

"the region of the Totonac "Totonacapan"; which then extended roughly from Papantla in the north to Cempoala in the south."

Basically, the Huastec have the Northern part of the State of Veracruz and some surrounding areas, whereas the Totonac have the South.

[BlackMage]

We've got to add Gowa (basically just a citystate where Makassar is) and the Yolgnu (north-east Top End of the Northern Territory) to the basemap. Also, the Gunditjmara (south-western Victoria, Australia) would be nice for future updates (in about, say, 50 years, once technology finds itself their way)

Otherwise, perfect.

[Tom Veil]

Well, if they're all city-states, they won't show up on the world map as anything more than a single black pixel anyway...

[BlackMage]

Well, if they're all city-states, they won't show up on the world map as anything more than a single black pixel anyway...

Yes, but we need a colour anyway for influence, and preparing for future events.

[Qazaq2007]

Keenir,
The Mamluks only had intermittant control of Cyrenaica (NE Libya). I should had indicated a date on my sketch map I have posted. The extent shown is as of about AD 1500. Q

[euio]

Do you still need a complete map?

[Keenir]

Do you still need a complete map?

any map provided is a good map automatically.

[euio]

any map provided is a good map automatically.
Ok. I have been working on a map of 1493 using Glen's map on page one.

[Glen]

Ok. I have been working on a map of 1493 using Glen's map on page one.

Euio, we are VERY excited to see such a map. We just appreciate the effort!:D

[euio]

Euio, we are VERY excited to see such a map. We just appreciate the effort!:D
Thank you.

Here it is so far.
Some borders may be slightly off.

[The Sicilian]

Awesome map! But...


For the love of Ian, NAPLES ISN'T FRENCH. Just saying, we're not a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys.


And Sicily is Spanish BTW

[euio]

Awesome map! But...


For the love of Ian, NAPLES ISN'T FRENCH. Just saying, we're not a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys.


And Sicily is Spanish BTW
If Naples isn't French, who controls it?

[The Sicilian]

If Naples isn't French, who controls it?
The Neapolitans:p

[Keenir]

terrific map. far better than anything I could've done.
(not kidding)

tiny question - who are the purple Indians?

[euio]

terrific map. far better than anything I could've done.
(not kidding)

tiny question - who are the purple Indians?
Delhi Sultanate.
Is Naples right on this map?

[Smaug]

Wikipedia's placement of the Huastec. Note also that they refer to themselves as the Teenek, so perhaps we ought to use that term.

"historically based in the states of Hidalgo, Veracruz, San Luis Potosí and Tamaulipas concentrated along the route of the Panuco River and along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. The Huastec people call themselves Teenek."

The Totonac are just South of them it appears. Wikipedia's comment on their range:

"the region of the Totonac "Totonacapan"; which then extended roughly from Papantla in the north to Cempoala in the south."

Basically, the Huastec have the Northern part of the State of Veracruz and some surrounding areas, whereas the Totonac have the South.

Bump for Euio. Very nice map. It looks like you got my Benin, but if you get time, could you post my New World possessions? Thanks in advance:)

[Glen]

Thank you.

Here it is so far.
Some borders may be slightly off.


Wow! That's a lot of work. I think with appropriate editing, though, we could work with this.

Strong start, euio!

[euio]

Wow! That's a lot of work. I think with appropriate editing, though, we could work with this.

Strong start, euio!
Thank you again.
So who had Naples then?

[Glen]

BTW, Savoy is not Habsburg.

Its still the best start we've had. I'm not using my regular computer right now, but when I do, I'll do edits for my nations and anything else I see askew.

Are those microstates in the Holy Roman Empire more or less accurate?:eek::cool:

[The Sicilian]

Naples is shown correctly, as independant.

As I said a while ago, perhaps we should give Naples Savoy's color, as Naples seems more active internationally.

[euio]

BTW, Savoy is not Habsburg.

If you look closely, it is actually the Savoy colour, not the Hapsburg colour.
Are those microstates in the Holy Roman Empire more or less accurate?:eek::cool:
Pretty much, except around Hesse. (where all the suspiciously triangular states are.)

[euio]

Thank you.

Here it is so far.
Some borders may be slightly off.
Could someone add in the rest of the African and American states please?

[Tom Veil]

Perhaps the Delhi Sultanate should not be colored in, since they are slated for extinction 5 years into the TL. I would request that instead, the Rajput States get to use the color. It should be a purple outline with a white center in the 1492 map, to indicate that they are united formally but not in everyday practice. (In 1498, this color will become the color of Rajputana Bharata.)

[euio]

There has been suggestions that we break up the map based on a section. I call south america. Now too the historical atlas!
Could you draw South America on my map please?

[euio]

Added African states.

I can't find most of the North American states you need, though.

[Tom Veil]

Here's my stab at North America.
1. Greenland hasn't been recolonized yet.
2. In the Northeast I only added the nationsthat are either player-controlled or that get mentioned in the timeline so far. A lot of the borders, of course, are approximates that will only become precise in the late 1500s.
3. In the Caribbean, I changed Spain from controlling Hispanola to claiming Hispanola (they'll control it soon enough).
4. I didn't touch Mexico.

[euio]

Here's my stab at North America.
1. Greenland hasn't been recolonized yet.
2. In the Northeast I only added the nationsthat are either player-controlled or that get mentioned in the timeline so far. A lot of the borders, of course, are approximates that will only become precise in the late 1500s.
3. In the Caribbean, I changed Spain from controlling Hispanola to claiming Hispanola (they'll control it soon enough).
4. I didn't touch Mexico.
Thank you.

[The Sicilian]

Yes, shouldn't the Mayas be fragmented?

[euio]

Yes, shouldn't the Mayas be fragmented?
Yes, but I didn't know how to divide them.

[Smaug]

At this time, only the Itza Maya and Ko'woj, are true Mayan states.

Wiki. Unlike the Spanish campaigns against the Aztec and Inca Empires, there was no single Maya political center which once overthrown would hasten the end of collective resistance from the indigenous peoples. Instead, the conquistador forces needed to subdue the numerous independent Maya polities almost one by one, many of which kept up a fierce resistance. Most of the conquistadores were motivated by the prospects of the great wealth to be had from the seizure of precious metal resources such as gold or silver, however the Maya lands themselves were poor in these resources. This would become another factor in forestalling Spanish designs of conquest, as they instead were initially attracted to the reports of great riches in central Mexico or Peru.

The last Maya states, the Itza polity of Tayasal and the Ko'woj city of Zacpeten, were continuously occupied and remained independent of the Spanish until late in the 17th century. They were finally subdued by the Spanish in 1697.

I would accept modern day Guatamala as thier lands at this time.

[Glen]

I fixed some things on the map, but unfortunately when I tried to save it as a GIF (recall, we want to create an animated GIF map too), the colors didn't translate.:(

Can someone translate these changes to the PNG map. Also, what are we to do about having our best map not be convertible to GIF?

[euio]

I fixed some things on the map, but unfortunately when I tried to save it as a GIF (recall, we want to create an animated GIF map too), the colors didn't translate.:(

Can someone translate these changes to the PNG map. Also, what are we to do about having our best map not be convertible to GIF?
What did you change? I could put them on a .PNG map.

In AdGif, all colours translate in .gif files, so you might want to just make the map there.

You don't need to save a picture as .GIF to import it into AdGif.

[Smaug]

Heres a Muisca 1493 map...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mapa_Imperio_Muisca.PNG

[Tom Veil]

I definitely recommend that we save all of the maps as PNG, rather than GIF, because of the coloring issues that are pretty much inherent to the GIF format. Once we want to make an animated map, then we can convert to GIF.

[Glen]

Here's a great map of Italy in 1494:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Italy_1494_shepherd.jpg

[Blackbeard]

What happened to Poland?

[Keenir]

What happened to Poland?

as far as I'm aware, absolutely nothing has happened to Poland.

though be aware that Russia is building a very large army, and you're their neighbor.

[Blackbeard]

I meant where is it on our map? I can find it on another site but what are my borders circa 1493?

[Glen]

I meant where is it on our map? I can find it on another site but what are my borders circa 1493?

I believe it is combined with Lithuania.

[Agentdark]

I am curious as to the current status of the world at its furthurest discussed

[Tom Veil]

Post #41 (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=1099865&postcount=41) accurately represents South Asia to date (there have been no border changes since 1510).

[DuQuense]

Map india 1930
The Vijayanagara Empire has pulled out of Muslim Khandash in the Decan Sulltanates, allowing a defendable border between the Muslaim North and the Hindu south.

[euio]

What does the world look like now?

[Tom Veil]

Here's a Google Map for the parts of North America that I wrote or was associated with (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102578392900039805418.000452b2692fa08e64c08&t=p&z=5).

[BlackMage]

Here's a picture of Marege, circa 1530. Blue areas under Macassan control, the top red area is Yolgnu, the central orange area is very roughly the territories of the Wangkumara, and the green sliver towards the bottom is the Gunditjmara, with whom I have so far done very little. (Just wait until the next few centuries, though!)

[Glen]

Here's a Google Map for the parts of North America that I wrote or was associated with (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102578392900039805418.000452b2692fa08e64c08&t=p&z=5).

Okay, that Google Map with our areas on it might be the coolest thing I've ever seen!

[Tomb]

Okay, that Google Map with our areas on it might be the coolest thing I've ever seen!

Too right!