DME Technology Discussions Thread

[Landshark]

A thread for batting about ideas on DME technology.

[Ward]

When we are building are fleets rember that a warship is very expecive and they were built for a 20 year life time in the 20's-30's
So are fleets should have some older ships in it not all new .

[DuQuense]

Some of them would be More than 20 as Budgets change, and New ships get Cancelled.

Some older ships from First teir Nations were sold to 2nd teir after 20 years. [war Surplus] Or are transfered to the Colonial fleets.

?Was this also done with Planes and Tanks?

[Landshark]

When we are building are fleets rember that a warship is very expecive and they were built for a 20 year life time in the 20's-30's
So are fleets should have some older ships in it not all new .

ATL's without a WW1 analog are going to have different building cycles than OTL.

[Ward]

I found a site that has equpment from the Battle of France and TOES sone nice iteams on tanks and aircraft .
It's http://france1940.free.fr/ its set up for wargamers but has some nice information on it .

[Landshark]

I want to equip my Legions of Gallic Devestation with a 25 ton tank with 50mm of armour, a 57mm gun and a diesel engine. Would that be acceptible?

[WngMasterD]

I want my USA-Canada/New Iceland/CAOI/Newfoundland to have somewhat lesser tech, like with Hot airballons as the main air forces and for the more icy regions ice-boats as the main form of transit.

Is this ok

[Grey Wolf]

For Iceland's navy it is based on a Jeune Ecole meets coastal defence idea...

There would be a fleet of light cruisers, backed by a few reasonable sized TBDs and more TB-sized small destroyers. Close-inshore there would be coast defence batteries, including torpedo ones, and a handful of coast defence ships, small but compactly modern. Minelayer auxilaries, minesweepers, armed trawlers, and coastal recce squadrons flying both land-based and seaplane bi-planes would be the rest. There would probably be a few long-range recce planes, maybe Condor analogues, perhaps purchased from abroad.

The army would be militia plus a few small Guard formations, mainly infantry though the Guard units are cavalry-trained on Viking horses (mounted infantry for difficult terrain). The army would have a few squadrons of bi-planes as well, but these are not modern and are ineffective as anything but scouts

AA defences exist, but are mainly concentrated at naval bases and arsenals, though a reserve can be mobilised to cover government buildings

Is this all the sort of thing people are expecting me to say ?

Grey Wolf

[Ward]

I want to equip my Legions of Gallic Devestation with a 25 ton tank with 50mm of armour, a 57mm gun and a diesel engine. Would that be acceptible?



Landshark go check out the French army page I put up the Char B is about what you are talking about . But it had a 47mm gun and a short 75mm .
I don't see why you could not but a diesel engine in it .

Myself I'm going to build the Souma Tank with a two man turret on it .


If you need help in chosing equpment give a yell . I'm willing to help out people there .

[Ward]

For Iceland's navy it is based on a Jeune Ecole meets coastal defence idea...

There would be a fleet of light cruisers, backed by a few reasonable sized TBDs and more TB-sized small destroyers. Close-inshore there would be coast defence batteries, including torpedo ones, and a handful of coast defence ships, small but compactly modern. Minelayer auxilaries, minesweepers, armed trawlers, and coastal recce squadrons flying both land-based and seaplane bi-planes would be the rest. There would probably be a few long-range recce planes, maybe Condor analogues, perhaps purchased from abroad.

Grey Wolf




Something to look at is the Finish Ilmarine class Coast Defece Ships

They have a Displacement of 3900 standard
Armanent of 4-254mm/45 , 6-105mm/50 AA ,4-40mm AA ,2-20mm AA


Why would you have cruisers they are for long range anti shiping fights .
as a small nation can you afford to buy a lot of new ships . or would you go with some ones cast offs .

[Landshark]

Landshark go check out the French army page I put up the Char B is about what you are talking about . But it had a 47mm gun and a short 75mm .
I don't see why you could not but a diesel engine in it .

Myself I'm going to build the Souma Tank with a two man turret on it .


If you need help in chosing equpment give a yell . I'm willing to help out people there .

I'm trying to go for something close to a T34 but built to western standards and within DME tech limits.

[Ward]

I'm trying to go for something close to a T34 but built to western standards and within DME tech limits.



Go with the KV-1 tank for about 1939 its eather out or just coming out then .

[Grey Wolf]

Something to look at is the Finish Ilmarine class Coast Defece Ships

They have a Displacement of 3900 standard
Armanent of 4-254mm/45 , 6-105mm/50 AA ,4-40mm AA ,2-20mm AA


Why would you have cruisers they are for long range anti shiping fights .
as a small nation can you afford to buy a lot of new ships . or would you go with some ones cast offs .

In the ATL, Iceland sits astride the major North Atlantic trade routes. There's a history which saw in the early modern an Ottoman force in the mid Atlantic and the North became the Christian route. Whilst things have changed and much shaken down, Iceland needs to protect its position vis-a-vis trade and the cruisers give it a certain reach.

Grey Wolf

[Landshark]

This might be useful:

Rapid Fire (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/)

Place has articles on guns and ammunition from the 19th century onwards.

[Cockroach]

A few sites:
http://warshipprojects.board.dk3.com
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/
http://wmilitary.neurok.ru/wwiiap.html

Well my nation is genrally as per OTL but here is a little something under development:
Australian Heavy Tank Mk 1 "Wombat"
1 12 pounder QF naval gun and 1 .303" Vickers MG in turret, 1 .303" Lewis anti-aircraft MG mounted on top of turret; armor thickness varying between 15 mm and 65 mm; top speed of 43 km/h on road and 25 km/h off road

And:
Hawker Cyclone fighter, radial engined varient of the Hurricane, 6 .303" MGs, top speed of 520 km/h, see attatched image

[Landshark]

Where'd you get the picture?

[Cockroach]

Where'd you get the picture?
Rougly put togeather from bits and pieces from http://wmilitary.neurok.ru/wwiiap.html

Edit: attatched image of "Wombat" heavy tank, image created from hacked up debris from http://www.military.cz/panzer

[DominusNovus]

Could I have Colossus level computers? I was thinking of having one of my TLs have fooled around more with babbage type analytical engines, so they'd likely be further along when it comes to computers.

On the flip side, they've still only got biplanes. :D

[DuQuense]

?Could you give us a link to Colossus level computers?, so whe can discuss them in more detail.

And It would be nice if Others include Links into these kind of Questions.

[Grey Wolf]

Hmm, everyone is thinking offensively aren't they ?

Iceland had better have an elite diplomatic corps, well-paid semi-aristocratic status, excellent negotiators etc :)

Haven't got a bloody clue what to do with the Faroes. I can imagine that Iceland would base only a couple of older light cruisers there at best. I guess there's the ability to rapidly reinforce it from Iceland...

As for Spitzbergen, I see it as rich, mineral-wealthy etc...

This of course raises a vital question - what the hell happens to international finances ??? I could imagine that gold would be the key here, so a nation better bank its own gold reserves. But in the different ATLs gold is going to have different absolute values. One of the first things that happens after the ISOTing is that it will fluctuate wildly and have to find its new level. This could bring economic chaos

The disruption to international trade will also screw up some nations, Iceland for one. It suddenly won't have the trade with recognised companies from recognised countries that it has in its ATL. But I guess people will still need to trade, so Iceland is going to need an excellent mercantile elite, first families with riches banked in Iceland who own merchant ships and are used to exercising power. Also, some very influential and professional government ministries

Grey Wolf

[DominusNovus]

?Could you give us a link to Colossus level computers?, so whe can discuss them in more detail.

And It would be nice if Others include Links into these kind of Questions.
My apologies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
Also, I realized that my territory is on the periphery of the Roman Empire, so they're not gonna have alot of the best civil technology, while they will have some of the best military technology.

[Tyr]

I don't see whats wrong with Colossus computers, they are otl WW2.

[Cockroach]

WngMasterD, just thought I had best remind you that the setting of this is circa WW2 tech i.e. carriers are just becoming significant, battleships and cruisers are still common and frigates were little more than a pop gun and a few depth charges on a hull. I would suggest you revise your forces a bit:
the Carribean Fleet (25 Destroyers, 35 Frigates, 10 Aircraft carriers, and 25 Submarines.)
Suggest you reduce it to 4 carriers, 2-4 battleships/battlecruisers, 4-7 heavy cruisers or armored cruisers (depending upon your TL), 6-8 light cruisers and 12-17 destroyers.
Navy is 100 patrol craft and 25 frigates, 3 air craft carriers. Three fleetsRemove frigates, replace with 10 Destroyers and 4 cruisers. I don't think carriers are that much use in waters as confined as the Baltic, I would suggest replace 2 of them with 3-4 coast defense ships (say armed with 4-6 11" or 12" guns)
edit: Those coast defense ships should probably take the form of something similar to a Panzerschiff but with a beefed up AA armorment

[WngMasterD]

Thank you for correcting me

EDIT: What would be a good Canadian Navy size for WWII?

[Cockroach]

EDIT: What would be a good Canadian Navy size for WWII?
Well depends upon your TL but if you are talking about a Canada with links to the UK I would say a massive (say total of 40-50) number of light cruiser and destroyer type craft and a scattering of old battleships and battlecruisers, lets say some of the UKs old 13.5" gunned ships such as the Iron Dukes (perhaps with extra boilers etc. in place the turret amidship) and Lions and HMS Tiger, I suggest you look here (http://p069.ezboard.com/falltheworldsbattlecruisersfrm1.showMessage?topicI D=1001.topic)...
http://home.sc.rr.com/dwspage/MISC/Never_Weres/TIGER-34.jpg

[DominusNovus]

Any good sites for airships? The IRU is probably going to have airships quite better than OTL, and I want to figure out what they're capable of. For example, the Macon carried 4 planes. The Hindenburg carried 78 passengers. Both were similar in size (about 800 ft long).

How many planes do you think I could fit in such an airship?
How many people?
How much larger could I get before being implausible for the technology?

[Grey Wolf]

Any good sites for airships? The IRU is probably going to have airships quite better than OTL, and I want to figure out what they're capable of. For example, the Macon carried 4 planes. The Hindenburg carried 78 passengers. Both were similar in size (about 800 ft long).

How many planes do you think I could fit in such an airship?
How many people?
How much larger could I get before being implausible for the technology?

I was wondering whether you could increase the passenger area without necessarily increasing the overall length of the airship by the same ratio ? Is there a way to increase the lifting power for example, or compact the gasbags at all ?

Of course, it may be that making them longer by the same ratio is NOT a problem ?

Grey Wolf

[DuQuense]

Any good sites for airships?

Goggle on Skycat, I beleive they have some good links.

Remenber the scene in "It's a Wonderful Life" where the Man tells George
Baily--"Plastics, Plastics, Thats were to put your money."
The main way to increase Lift [outside the Skycats Lifting body] is to reduese weight. You may want to look into weither Alumiun screen covered by epoxy, is lighter than the Canvas they used.

[Condottiero]

Morocco is going to have a fast moving army: few tanks and lots of all-terrain vehicles (something like those Afrika Korps vehicles... :) ).
An small navy with coastal patrol ships, an Atlantic navy (a heavy cruiser with escorts) and a Mediterranean navy (an older cruiser with escorts). The government is planning to lend bases in Tangiers or in Ceuta.
The air force will be stronger, but purely defensive.

The problems with guerrillas in the remotest parts of our nation are nothing but rumours...

[Ward]

Thank you for correcting me

EDIT: What would be a good Canadian Navy size for WWII?



For the Canadian Navy A BC like the Tiger would be about right
For Heavy Crusiers 4 kent class ( same as the Australian Crusiers )
For light Crusiers 6 1920's Cruisers
For DD maybe 10 1920's and 15-20 1930's DD
I can also see you having 20 armed Ice beackers .
I could see the Canadian Navy this size if there was no Washington treaty of 1930's . Most of these would be British Cast offs .
After the war starts I can see Canada building a lot of small war ships like the Flower class ships . Rember by 1945 Canada had the third larges navy in the world . Most of the ships were Anti Sub ships .

[Cockroach]

Any good sites for airships? The IRU is probably going to have airships quite better than OTL, and I want to figure out what they're capable of. For example, the Macon carried 4 planes. The Hindenburg carried 78 passengers. Both were similar in size (about 800 ft long).

How many planes do you think I could fit in such an airship?
How many people?
How much larger could I get before being implausible for the technology?
The US was considering building such a 'flying carrier' with 9 dive bombers until it had the misfortune to loose a couple of airships
www.history.navy.mil/download/lta-05.pdf
www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/1223.pdf
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/lta-m.html
I can see the number of aircraft carried being increased a bit but I don't think you can practically exceed 20, however even this increase will involve making the airship larger and any attempt to mount a sizable defensive armorment (lets say 4-8 3" guns in addition to 0.50" MGs and 20mm cannons) will require increasing its size even futher

[Condottiero]

Ooops. I have included some rigid airships in my Hispano-African (Morocco) army...
Could anyone have a look at it? (It is in the African-Middle East line)

I was also planning to create an armoured brigade with the following vehicles (it will be the spearhead of the hispanoafrican forces:



Campeador Atl-5VA
The Campeador Atl-5 is the final version accepted by the Hispano-african army. It has been developed by Atlas Trucks and Cars Military Division in the factory of Constantina. It has been developed from French models adapted to desert conditions and equips Spanish guns.


Specifications:
weight: 14t
Length: 7,11 m
Width: 2,98 m
Height: 3,25 m
Crew: 2 men
Maximum armour: 40mm (bolted and welded cast plates)
Maximum speed: 20 km/h
Autonomy: 150 km
Weapons: a 52mm Santa Bárbara gun (with 80 shells) and two 7.5mm SB1932 MG



Almogávar Atl-2VL
They are classified as machine gun carriers. Their technology is completely national (Atlas Trucks and Cars), from the armour to the weaponry.

Specifications:
Crew: 2 men
Weight: 3,5t
Length: 3,18m
Width: 1,43m
Height: 1,28m
Armour (máx): 13 mm
Range: 160 km (260 with additional deposits)
Speed: 40 km/h
Weapons: four 7.5mm SB1932 MG



Babieca Atl-Half Track
They are used to transport infantry units or artillery in the desert. Their technology is also completely national (Atlas Trucks and Cars).

Specifications:
Crew: Up to 15
Weight: 9t
Length: 6,51 m (including unditching roller and winch)
Width: 2,25 m
Height: 2,55 m
Armour: 12 mm
Range: 320 km (520 km with additional deposits)
Speed: 62 km/h (55 km/h with additional deposits)
Weapons: one 7.5mm SB1932 MG, some are equipped also with a double 12 mm SB1929 MG (that reduces the crew to 10).

Clavijo Atl-6VA
They newest Armoured vehicle of the hispanoafrican army is the Clavijo 6x6 vehicle. A extremely mobile and hard vehicle that will be the backbone of the future armoured forces.

Specifications:
Crew: 4
Weight: 8t
Length: 5,18 m
Width: 2,60 m
Height: 3,15 m
Armour: 19 mm
Range: 650 km
Speed: 92 km/h
Weapons: one 52 mm gun, two 12 mm SB1929 MG, one 7.5mm SB1932 MG.




1st Hispano-African Armoured Brigade

Campeador Atl-5VA 120
Clavijo Atl-6VA 20
Almogávar Atl-2VL 30
Babieca Atl-Half Track 10 + 10 90mm guns
Babieca Atl-Half Track 5 with heavy MG

11th and 12th Desert Riders (assigned as scouting units)
Almogávar Atl-2VL 25
Clavijo Atl-6VA 5
2 camelriders squadrons

[DuQuense]

Some thing to keep in Mind for this.

Before the second world war, Aamco got it's start as one of the thousands of Spring Shops. that dotted the Highways. People had to replace broken springs almost as often as changing tires. This is just one of the little advancements, whe take for granted in todys world. In the 30's Automotive tech [includes tanks & trucks] was still a devolping technology.

[WngMasterD]

Ok, for my NA 4 Nations (Most specifically Arctic Isalnds and Hell)), I was wondering if anphib ice-craft would be too technologically advanced. These wouldent have much military valu, but they would be helpfll in organizing trade and transit as Aircraft (in their OTL) are feared unreliable by most.

[WngMasterD]

question from me again:

What is the limits on Computer/electronic technology? Transistor electronics allowed?

[Grey Wolf]

question from me again:

What is the limits on Computer/electronic technology? Transistor electronics allowed?

Well OTL a proto-hovercraft was developed by the Austro-Hungarians in the Adriatic. Give 30 years of DEVELOPMENT by a country that needs it, you could have something

Re tractors etc, did not Scott have some with him in 1912 ? Ofcourse these weren't very amphibious !!!

Grey Wolf

[WngMasterD]

For the Ice-Anphib craft, I was looking at like a pontooned box that that catapiller treads. The box would hold passengers or cargo

[Grey Wolf]

For the Ice-Anphib craft, I was looking at like a pontooned box that that catapiller treads. The box would hold passengers or cargo

Look at some of the weird vehicles built for D-Day and then see where their antecedents lie. I would imagine the technology you want is available in 1939 and being utilised somewhere at some level

Grey Wolf

[General_Paul]

heh...just as long as that D-Day isn't against my victorious forces of the reich... I'm fine w/ it. lol. Anyways, you know what to expect from my reich forces, and maybe some new challenges to go with...

[Cockroach]

Don't worry General_Paul, there will be no need to D-Day you, with the thousands of tanks coming from all directions it isn't like your Germans will get anywhere... :D

[Grey Wolf]

Technology of the Russian armed forces

As an introductory note, the technological level of the Russian Empire's forces in the ATL that they have been ISOT'ed from was as good as anyone else on the planet, and the equal of only a few countries (the USA, Britain, the French Empire and (Westphalian) Germany). Others, such as Austria, Sweden and Japan were close.

1. Naval Technology

Compared to OTL, the Russian navy is the equal of OTL 1939's best with regard to : gunnery, propulsion, armour etc, from the 18" guns of its newest battleships to the great submarines being developed at Petropavlosk. Torpedo technology is weaker, whilst nothing anywhere as complex as RADAR exists in this world. Direction finding and triangulation reign, and visual spotting is supreme, and has been taken to a high degree of science.

2. Aerial Technology

Airships rule! They come in various forms; short-range naval patrol airships (such as the Kishinev from Atmosphere) dominate and are to be found in great numbers, then there are the long-range patrol airships, then the imperial service airships with at their apogee the imperial sky yachts such as the Imperator. There are commercial service airships, both passenger and freight, and the great industrialists and more wealthy (or showy) nobility have their own private airships.
Not being an expert in airship design, I hesitate to go into too much detail about them lest I say something silly and render them in everyone else's eyes as explosive gasbags. Just note they have emerged out of four decades of warfare, and are deemed to be at the very top of their development. They are well armed, provided with reliable engines that can drive them at pretty high speeds, and only the stormiest of weather requires them to ground.

Aeroplanes do exist but are not regarded as serious aircraft. They are still flimsy canvas-covered things and are more the toys of the wealthy racers, the explorers and eccentric individuals. The only military aircraft are a few carried by the newest battleships and armoured cruisers (hoist-out floatplanes) and a few communications aircraft in far-out-of-the-way places such as the Kuril Islands or the Aleutians.

3. Ground Forces

There are no armoured offensive vehicles in the ATL that the Russian Empire comes from. The motive power of the army comes 1/3 from trains (armoured trains, military trains etc dominated in the frontier area but have not been ISOT'ed), 1/3 from cavalry and 1/3 from lorries etc. Automobiles, armoured cars for reconnsaissance, and a motorised supply chain exist with roughly OTL technology. Artillery is a mix of 1/3 pulled by armoured tractors (tracked), 1/3 horse drawn and 1/3 towed by trucks and vans. Heavy railway artillery exists in great number. Again it should be noted that a lot of this has been lost during the ISOT'ing and it is probably going to take a full audit of the reserve depots to find out just what exists.
Fortifications are quite well developed (think Maginot Line) but all of the Western frontier lines have been lost through not being ISOT'ed. They continue to exist only in Karelia and in Central Asia. Fortified cities and bases do exist in the Western rear, but the majority of such have again been lost due to not being ISOT'ed.

I hope this gives some kind of clear picture

Grey Wolf

[G.Bone]

Since Grey Wolf posted his, I might as well post something for Hawaii and China

Hawaii/China

1. Ground Tech

Virtually the same, although adapted more to jungle warfare due to the mergence of the Latin American Republics into the UAS. This has coincided with the more accurate artillery and infantry rifle, which has been adapted to deal with tropical weather and faster loading rate. (Known as the Berschin-Colt)

China, on the other hand, has better artillery and is adapted towards crushing the heck out of the enemy 10 leagues away. They are also tinkering with gas and biological warfare, although limited to plague infested blankets and assorted things.

2. Air Tech

Known as Aeroplanes in their TL, they are considerably faster and around the P-38/Mustang design due to the Second Civil War that broke out in the USA. Due to the outbreak of hostilities in China, much of these fighters have been adapted to long range and based on ships. However, tacticians have yet to design a better fighter/bomber plane that would deliver a crippling blow to the enemy.

China, on the other hand, does possess stronger bombers and have adapted towards mauling the heck out of a city. Although they are not along the lines of fire-bombing, they do have "maximum destruction level", which has been used many many times. As for fighter jets, they tend to be based on a square shape, with the propeller faced backwards and the guns forward. (don't ask)

3. Navy Tech

The aircraft carrier has been invented but serves more as a moving base with the battleship and cruisers as escort ships. Usually a "squadron" would consist of 1 carrier, 3 battleships, and 2 cruisers. Frigates have been employed as scout ships but are more in use (in 1939) as rescue ships rather than scouting.

Flags, lights, and radio is utilized more for communication and spotting. Most cruisers do have large spotlights located in the bow with a very long beam of light. Morse code is quite strong and has been improved on with the Hawaiian words for birds/animmals standing in for particular objects. Flags are utilized for daytime.

China does possess a crude form of radar but it is employed within submarines and artillery boats to ambush a convoy. Aircraft carriers are utilized in their navy more as refueling areas for attack purposes. Most of the aircraft they service are bombers with the occasional fighters.

[WngMasterD]

Ground: Same as OTL For Canada/British Canada/Baltic Confederation. BWIT has less advanced in Armored Vehicles, lest vehicles in any form.

Hell/AIC have much better Ice/snow Vehicles, most of which are anphi-craft.

Air: BWIT/Baltic Confed. Same as OTL for aircraft.

For the NA4 nations, Airplanes exist, and very reliable, with tech about 1935ish, however they are not trusted in the least. Only a few brave (or crazy) souls fly. Much of the air technology is in the form of Hot-Air-Baloons / Hot-Air-Blimps / and Airships

Sea: Same as OTL for all antions. Hell and the AIC dont use sea going craft, as they are merged with the ice craft. BWIT has a higher use of small submerines

[DominusNovus]

Hey, is it alright if the Sultanate of Rome has primitive jets? They've lost even more of their empire than the Russians have, so I want to give them something...

[Grey Wolf]

Hey, is it alright if the Sultanate of Rome has primitive jets? They've lost even more of their empire than the Russians have, so I want to give them something...

Well, it won't bother me if by primitive you mean you've gone to production with a basic design, eg similar to the Heinkel prototype with its worse problems ironed out but now being produced at squadron strength.

Grey Wolf

[Ward]

SA4&SA5
Repulic of America

AirCraft Tech. is that of 1939
Warship Tech. is that of 1939
Land Force Tech. is that of 1939

The ships, Aircraft, and land equpment will be that of France 1939 with a little bit of Italian aircraft after 1941.

[Midgard]

EU12
Roman (Byzantine) Empire

Airship technology is at the OTL level, although the emphasis has been more on airships as aerial combat fortresses - as such, the airships mostly tend to be heavily armored and packed with as much firepower as possible. Another subclass of the airships are the couriers, that are mostly unarmed, and sacrifice armor for speed. These tend to use rockets as boosters, and might be the closest thing to a conventional airplane invented in ATL, even though their maneuverability leaves much to be desired, leading to them not being seriously considered in a combat role. A side note is that the airplane or heavier-than-air aircraft had not been invented.

Automobile (and armored vehicles) had not been invented, most land movement is by horse and (in some areas) by train

Naval technology is at the level of ACW, possibly a few years beyond that - there are mostly steam-powered ironclads, however, no submarines, and there are still few sail ships out there

Gun technology is pretty comparable to that of OTL 1880s, with the machine guns having been invented, but at this point, they are still little too cumbersome to be hand-held. Mostly, machine guns are equipped on the airships, ironclads, and hauled around by horses or mules for the land troops.

Artillery is rather primitive, and is comparable to ACW cannons.

Infantry is used as the main body of the army, with the cavalry acting as shock troops and light cavalry acting as scouts and patrols.

[DuQuense]

The Falcon Fighters

In 1937 The US War Dept. put out a request for a new Fighter, In the Request they mention that they will consider unusual designs. The Langley-Packard, aircraft company came up with a design and received a Development contract. The plane was designed with a 1750 hp engine in Mind, Unfortunally in fall 37, the Engine company went Bankrupt. With the 1938 Contract deadline approaching, Packard put a of the Shelf, 1250 hp engine in the plane.

Designed with a top speed of 520 mph and a climb rate of 20.000 in 3.5 minutes, the underpowered plane only reached 360 mph, and a Climb of 6.5 minutes. Disappointed the War Dep't dropped the Planes. The Japanese observers Listened to the problems, and were impressed at what the plane did underpowered as it was.

The Japanese bought the Plans, and returned Home were they put a 1700 hp Honda/Stuterbaker, in the plane.
While the plane didn't reach the designed 520, it did reach 495. It also met the Japanese fuel economy Requirements [Japan having to import all it's oil] The planes went into production in late July. The first 100 Naval units went to the the two AACs stationed in Amur. 100 trainer & 100 Fighters were stationed all long the Amur river air bases, so the pilots could get use to the new planes.

The Molds and Stamps to setup a plant in north Korea, were shipped on august 31th. There were also 120 planes shipped on the 31st. The Japanese are working on developing a 1900 hp engine, to fit into the Falcon.

[Condottiero]

The Airships by North African Rigid Balloons Company

Built in our facilities near Oran, the NARB airships are the most reliable airships in the world and able of flying in the worst conditions, even in the middle of a sandstorm. This is why you can trust in our airships:
* They are equipped with robust and powerful natural gas turbines which allows our airships to have a wider range than any other airship.
* They are equipped with the best radiotelegraphs in the market and optimum optical elements made by the creators of the Telescopes in Mount Aberdouz.
* They use Helium instead of Hydrogen which makes them safer than most our competitors.
* They allow a wide variety of configurations from the Mehari transport to the powerful Tramontana.



"Mehari"
Transport airship

Dead Weight = 97 t
Useful Load = 75 t
Length = 220,1 m
Diameter= 39,3 m
Height = 43,2 m
Propulsion = 8 gas turbines of 425 kW each
Speed = 95 km/h cruising
145 km/h maximum
Crew: 51 + 50 troopers or up to 5 t of equipment
Armament: 10 12.7 mm MG
Aircraft: None


"Simoun"
Bomber airship

Dead Weight = 105 t
Useful Load = 82 t
Length = 239 m
Diameter= 40,5 m
Height = 44,6 m
Propulsion = 10 gas turbines of 425 kW each
Speed = 97 km/h cruising
149 km/h maximum
Crew: 82
Armament: 12 12.7 mm MG
Up to 1 ton of bombs or 3 HB-5 torpedoes and 10 CP-21 Depth Charges (Naval config.)

Aircraft: two FIAT BF-15 (speed 435 km/h, 3 12.7 mm MG)

"Tramontana"
Escort and scout airship

Dead Weight = 97 t
Useful Load = 72 t
Length = 222 m
Diameter= 38,3 m
Height = 41,2 m
Propulsion = 8 gas turbines of 450 kW each
Speed = 100 km/h cruising
175 km/h maximum
Crew: 66
Armament: 12 12.7 mm MG, one 90 mm gun, two 52 mm guns
Aircraft: two FIAT BF-15 (speed 435 km/h, 3 12.7 mm MG)

******

Cortés Aeronautics Lmtd.

This small public company has develloped what will become the future in aeronautics: the newest Autogyros. The plane that requires less space to land or take off! And it presents it in two versions, although its versatility will require more and more...

Naval Patrol AN-31 Autogyro
Specially designed for antisubmarine fight it can even land in a ship.

Length: 9.2 m
Rotor radius: 6.5 m
Dead weight: 775 kg
Useful load: 400 kg
Speed: 120 km/h cruising
172 km/h maximum
Maximum alt.: 3500 m
Range: 472 km
Weapons: two Depth Charges.

Scouting and Recon AR-29 Autogyro
Specially designed for reconnaisance and artillery support.

Length: 7.2 m
Rotor radius: 6.1 m
Dead weight: 625 kg
Useful load: 320 kg
Speed: 125 km/h cruising
180 km/h maximum
Maximum alt.: 3500 m
Weapons: one 10,1 mm MG.

[Grey Wolf]

Given that my aerial and armour technology is somewhat in the rear of others, can I advance certain aspects of naval technology, which is the main area that the Russians have concentrated on ? In particular, with regard to submarines, an analogue of the snorkel and the walther engine ? The Russians have dedicated a whole base to submarines to the advancement of elements of their technology would appear to be the most sound for their ATL

Grey Wolf

[Ward]

Question what are the ships in a fleet when they say they have ?number of Battleships or other ships and do not name the class of ships .
How are we going to rate them and how are they rated for a battle .

Same with aircraft Vs airships

[Cockroach]

Question what are the ships in a fleet when they say they have ?number of Battleships or other ships and do not name the class of ships .yes realy people need to provide more info (number of guns, armor etc), all the capital ships in the navies of my teo nations have at least some description and the same applies with all my aircraft.
I do have a bit of a question for those with airships: Are they using hydrogen or helium? and how are they armed?

[Ward]

[QUOTE=Grey Wolf]Technology of the Russian armed forces

As an introductory note, the technological level of the Russian Empire's forces in the ATL that they have been ISOT'ed from was as good as anyone else on the planet, and the equal of only a few countries (the USA, Britain, the French Empire and (Westphalian) Germany). Others, such as Austria, Sweden and Japan were close.

1. Naval Technology

Compared to OTL, the Russian navy is the equal of OTL 1939's best with regard to : gunnery, propulsion, armour etc, from the 18" guns of its newest battleships to the great submarines being developed at Petropavlosk. Torpedo technology is weaker, whilst nothing anywhere as complex as RADAR exists in this world. Direction finding and triangulation reign, and visual spotting is supreme, and has been taken to a high degree of science.





Grey Wolf would you say your Battleships would be like the Soviet Union warships started by Stalin or the Sovyetski Soyuz Class and maybe the Kronshatadt Class Battle Cruiser class and your subs like the Wk202 class German Sub

[DuQuense]

So called as from the Ground they look like a Eagle soaring overhead. Designed to fly at 20.000 - 42.000 feet, they are 25 feet long with a 125 wignspan. Powered by a 12 hp steam Motor, they fly at speed of 50-60 mph, with a top speed of 100 mph. They are equiped with the very lastest and very best Cameras & Long range lenses. They carry no Armament, their protection being their Height & due to the Steam engine they are very quiet, and normally unheard on the ground . Used for Reconisence, they are very effective.

I combined the Stats for a 1938 Glider, with a experimental Steam engine plane from 1936 . The steam engine gained efficentcy as the attitude increased. and you need the large wings at those attitudes.

[Condottiero]

Spanish Africa

Atlantic fleet in Villa Cisneros base:
* one new Washington type cruiser built in Spain (similar to the Baleares, http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/crucer.htm),
* three old destroyers (similar to Ceuta class in http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/destruc.htm),
* one new destroyer type “Vándalo” (similar to Churruca 2nd. series in http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/destruc.htm),
* three old submarines (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/TClass.html)
* 30 light gunners (fishery control units).

Mediterranean fleet in Tunez:
* one old heavy cruiser (built in France, like the Jaime I in http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/acoraza.htm ),
* five old destroyers http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/acoraza.htm ,
* four old submarines (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/TClass.html)
* two non operative submarines (like http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/h_class1.htm) * 20 light gunners (fishery control units).

Iberic Union
• Galleon-1:

1 Carrier (11 fighters, 8 naval bombers, 9 dive bombers, like the HMS Attack Escort Carrier in http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/rufus_368/ship.htm ),
1 battle cruiser (like Bismark http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/rufus_368/ship.htm ),
2 heavy cruisers (like Zara http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/rufus_368/ship.htm ),
5 light cruisers(Cervera class in http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/crucer.htm),
12 destroyers (similar to Churruca 2nd. series in http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/destruc.htm),
14 submarines (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/miscclass.html)
and auxiliary ships (tankers, transports, landing boats, armed transports, fishery control ships)

[Grey Wolf]

Actually, the Russian battlefleet doesn't really have much in common with the Soviets. I would prefer to look at the Imperial Japanese Navy, combined with Tsarist plans for 16" gunned battleships which existed during OTL WW1. The Japanese link would be with regard to the 18" gunned behemoths which are under construction in the South.

The snorkel device would be on the ocean-going submarines, whilst the analogue to the Walther engines would be at this moment only on the two great submarines completed.

Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf would you say your Battleships would be like the Soviet Union warships started by Stalin or the Sovyetski Soyuz Class and maybe the Kronshatadt Class Battle Cruiser class and your subs like the Wk202 class German Sub

[perdedor99]

A comparison of Naval Forces in the Pacific by September 1939

Empire of Japan
4 CV
10 BB
21 CA
13 CL
63 DD
49 SS

China
13 CA/CL
12 BB
4 CV
20 SS
20 DD

Republic of Japan
2 CV
1 BB
6 CA
7 CL
27 DD
10 SS

United States Karafuto
2 BB
2 CA
5 CL
12 DD

United States Hawaii
4 CV
6 BB
8 CA/CL
4 SS

Siam
2 CL
2 CB

French Indochina
2 CVL
1 BB
2 BC
7 CA
35 DD
15 SS

[Grey Wolf]

As an almost entirely-submarine based force we may not be very visible but we are rather strong :)

Based out of Petropavlosk with a secondary supply base at Ayan :-

2 great submarines (Bayan and Pobieda)
6 submarine cruisers
15-20 ocean-going submarines (exact number still uncertain after the ISOTing)
8-12 short range submarines (same reason as above for uncertainty)
8 mine-laying submarines

There is also a defensive surface force at Petropavlosk consisting of :-
2 old armoured cruisers
2 modern light cruisers
12 ice patrol craft (cross between a destroyer and an ice-breaker)

The airships also come under naval command, and there were 4 of these, though one (Saria - Dawn) has now been shot down

Various auxilaries are based at Petropavlosk

One of the old armoured cruisers and several auxilaries are enroute for Hawaii, ETA Day 14

Grey Wolf

[Ward]

I belive that we should post at the start what class of Ships we have .
How many we have of all class .
For are aircraft we need to state what type we have at at start and how many we have .
If we have airships we should post how fast they are how the are armed and if they have armor and what fills them with lift .

I also think we need to state what units we have how they are organized and what they are armed with.
Also we should have a clear date of when are tech ends .
Example is with are game now it started on Sept 2 1939 are tech should end at that date . Unless you can prover that your tech is higher and have it ruled on by everone else .

[G.Bone]

China's Navy is rather small due to emphasis on land.

-4 submarine cruisers
-12 "patrol" submarines
-4 submarines under repair
-8 "warfare" submarines

-12 cruisers (currently docked near the Enclaves)
-6 Battleships (also " ")
-6 auxiliery ships
-4 aircraft carriers

Other ships listed in previous posts have either been under repair or recalled for political purposes

[Grey Wolf]

I just spent 20 minutes typing detailed information about Russia

And then it didn't post

And I can't fucking be bothered to do it again

Suffice it to say, I've said in previous posts almost everything I have to say on the subject of her armed forces

What I don't know I either don't know where to find out, or have no interest to spend several days researching

A severely pissed off Grey Wolf
who wants a new fucking computer !

[perdedor99]

Just posting this to give an idea to Imajin of possible ships for his Hungarian-Austrian fleet. Hope it helps.

Austro-Hungarian Fleet:

Battleships:
4 Viribus Unitis Class(Viribus Unitis,Prinz Eugen,Szent Istvan,Tegetthoff)[1]
4 Ersatz Monarch Class(Laudon,Hunyadi,Monarch, Radetsky)[2]

1]ITTL modernised during the early 1930's. 20knts,12 X 12" guns(2 triple turrets forward, 2 triple turrets aft), 19,698 tons std displacement.

2]ITTL build after Two Year War. Received engine upgrade in the early 1930's. 25knots, 10 X 13.8" guns(1 triple and 1 dual turret forward, 1 triple and 1 dual turret aft), 24,450 tons std displacement.

[Ward]

Just posting this to give an idea to Imajin of possible ships for his Hungarian-Austrian fleet. Hope it helps.

Austro-Hungarian Fleet:

Battleships:
4 Viribus Unitis Class(Viribus Unitis,Prinz Eugen,Szent Istvan,Tegetthoff)[1]
4 Ersatz Monarch Class(Laudon,Hunyadi,Monarch, Radetsky)[2]

1]ITTL modernised during the early 1930's. 20knts,12 X 12" guns(2 triple turrets forward, 2 triple turrets aft), 19,698 tons std displacement.

2]ITTL build after Two Year War. Received engine upgrade in the early 1930's. 25knots, 10 X 13.8" guns(1 triple and 1 dual turret forward, 1 triple and 1 dual turret aft), 24,450 tons std displacement.



what are your light ship like your Cruisers and Destroyer .
If you would like some help on these I'm willing to help .

[DuQuense]

If you all will let me I want this as my [Falcon] Fighter, looks Cooler, The other is going to be my Navy [Gull] Bomber, They both come out of the same 1938 design competition.

[Cockroach]

Ships? Well I have given details before (http://warshipprojects.board.dk3.com/2/viewtopic.php?t=1217) for HMAS NSW and Tasmania.
HMNZS New Zealand and HMAS Australia (both currently under construction) are both Vanguard type (i.e. old turrets and new hull) but come in at around 37000 tons displacement (8 15" guns in 4 twin turrets, top speed of 29 knots). HMAS (ex-HMS) Tiger and Lion are two old 13.5" gunned battlecruisers that were in port waiting for a refit.
HMAS Albatross, laid down in 1931 completed 1934, airgroup of 50 planes.

[Grey Wolf]

If you all will let me I want this as my [Falcon] Fighter, looks Cooler, The other is going to be my Navy [Gull] Bomber, They both come out of the same 1938 design competition.

For which nation ?

Grey Wolf

[DuQuense]

Republic of Japan this is my Naval Bomber But as my factory can only produce 75-80 planes per month till the Factory is Rebuild larger It will also be my short range Land Bomber.

[Grey Wolf]

Oo, its a pusher !

Grey Wolf