DME Battle Thread

[DuQuense]

This is for posting the Stats pre battle and for the Moderator to decide. And then for use to discuss wheither the dicidsion was Rite.
This is not for how your Men reached the Battle feild, that is for your Country thread.

Mr Ger Posts - I have 3 Companys of Infantry, 10 tanks, and a Ground Surrport plane. My plan to attack the Bridge is-- Mr Pol then posts I have 4 companies, 5 tanks, and a AA Gun Defending the Bridge, with plan -- Mr Mod then Posts -- Mr Ger took the Bridge & has a Beachhead on the East Bank. THEN whe all get to comment on wheither it was Rite. Of Couse whe don't see all the PM-ing behind the scences. A Bridge attack may take 2-3 posts each, while a Major battle 6-7 posts each.

Then each side writes up their version of the Battle, and posts it in their countries thread.

[Straha]

attle of the River Oder: September 1, 1939. General Erwin Rommel Commanding Northern Invasion Corridor Forces

German Invasion forces: Northern Corridor-Fourth, Seventh, Tenth, Twelfth, and fifteenth Armored Divisions. First, Third, and Ninth Infantry Division, supported by the twenty-seventh, and thirtieth bomber wings. Close air support given by the Fifth fighter detachment.

Roman Forces:




German forces make initial invasion, bridges seized all across the Oder River, along all axes of attack. Roman Forces decimated on all fronts. Northern Corridor invasion forces, in their push towards the capital of Poland, what they deem to be Warsaw, now named Colonia Juliana. Unknown numbers of roman forces, stationed along the invasion corridor, due to poor intelligence, the Germans feel it is necessary to launch Operation: Fall Weiss, even without knowing what is going on. Let the battle begin!

[DominusNovus]

I do have some forces here...

Stationed at Ostia Nova (Danzig):
Legion XXIV Draco under command of Legate Petrus Germanicianus
Legion XIX Vipera under command of Legate Zacharius Remianus
Each has 10,000 soldiers:
7,500 infantry (peditis)
1,000 tanks (equites machinationis)
500 artillery (ballistae machinationis)
500 cavalry (equites)
500 biplanes (avis machinationis)

I've got some of my airships in Colonia Juliana (Warsaw), as well as the Legion XII Victoria, under command of Legate Marcus Aquilanus.

Our plan is to figure out what the hell is going on. Likely, we'll start bringing some of our legions from the eastern front. Probalby only half of them. So, about 100 legions. Thats it. :cool:
Note: not all the eastern legions have as many tanks.

[Grey Wolf]

Just to let you know that the Russian Empire, rump, in the East is not doing anything militarily at all on the first day. What your observers would see are small parties in automobiles who look more like engineers than soldiers and who stick to the telegraph lines.Where these get to the Dneiper they stop and watch but nothing else. There are probably a few patrol airships just on my side of the 'line of disturbance' as the Regent has termed it. You won't see much in the way of military because its all vanished in this area !

Day 2 (is that Sep 2nd) starts out the same way. The authorities in Saint Petersburg are still trying to work out what the hell is going on. Contact will probably be attempted late in Day 2

Grey Wolf

[DominusNovus]

Oh, I understand that. But the Romans don't yet. They're willing to pull forces from the front, but not all of them yet.

[Cockroach]

I happen to be controlling both New Holland and Union of Pacific Dominions but I thought I had best post for some oppinions on the first battle:
http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1256&stc=1
Only concerned with movements at 3: New Holland: 5000 VOC infantry and 500 local Cavarly 25 medium guns (75mm-95mm) Note: tech level circa 1900, machine guns while present are comparitivly rear (aprox 1 machine gun to 200 men)
UOPD: elements of the 2nd Division of the ANZAC corp (4300 men), 2nd Mounted Rifles (750 men), Royal New South Wales Lancers (400 men), 5 Vickers Medium Mk IIA medium tanks, 8 Vicker Light Tanks Mk VI, 35 Field guns (18 pounders and 25 pounders) Note: tech level 1930s, light machine guns are common (1 per 15 men) heavy machine guns are also in use (1 per 50 men)

[DuQuense]

It looks more like you have a war of Confusion, Remenber the more mobile force can concentrate local superiority, even if out matched on the Broader front. I think this is the only chance the Hollanders have.

[perdedor99]

I think the New Hollander are toast. Duquense reasoning is valid but IMHO the forces seem balanced enough that I consider rate of fire will dictate the tempo of the fight and defeat any attempts by the Dutch take control of the fight. Of course this is like looking at a chest board without taking in consideration the quality of the players. Maybe the Dutch commander is a cavalry genius and the Australian one is a complete dumbass. Pretty evenly matched forces but my money is on the Australians

[Grey Wolf]

The German player might wish to know that a badly damaged Russian ocean-going submarine, the Albatros attempted to enter Danzig in mid morning of September 2nd

The rationale for this is that it was outgoing from Saint Petersburg so got swept up in the ISOT'ing, but the storms and serious water displacement have buffeted it awfully. Instead of returning to base it decided to press on and put into what it assumed was the last Russian port Westwards in the Baltic for repairs

Grey Wolf

[DominusNovus]

The German player might wish to know that a badly damaged Russian ocean-going submarine, the Albatros attempted to enter Danzig in mid morning of September 2nd

The rationale for this is that it was outgoing from Saint Petersburg so got swept up in the ISOT'ing, but the storms and serious water displacement have buffeted it awfully. Instead of returning to base it decided to press on and put into what it assumed was the last Russian port Westwards in the Baltic for repairs

Grey Wolf
The Roman player, who's running Danzig (or, more properly, Ostia Nova) will make note of this. :D

[Grey Wolf]

The Roman player, who's running Danzig (or, more properly, Ostia Nova) will make note of this. :D

Okeydokey :)

Is Danzig under German aerial assault btw ?

Grey Wolf

[DominusNovus]

Okeydokey :)

Is Danzig under German aerial assault btw ?

Grey Wolf
For the first day. After that, the Germans are pulling out, realizing that things aren't quite right. But there's still likely to be German activity.

[Grey Wolf]

For the first day. After that, the Germans are pulling out, realizing that things aren't quite right. But there's still likely to be German activity.

I'll let you do what you want with the submarine - if you try and board it the captain will scuttle without regard for the crew's safety (and considering the battered condition of the sub itll probably be impossible to prevent it sinking). Otherwise let me know what you want to do - ITS going to be entirely reactive

Grey Wolf

[Grey Wolf]

OK, I'm posting this here so that people can see it and tell me whether there IS a battle of any sorts

The humungously large imperial sky yacht (armed airship) 'Imperator' is heading South over the Black Sea from the Crimea in the afternoon of Day 2

About midway out across the Black Sea it will turn due South-West and steer a direct course for Constantinople

I am thinking this only affects the Sultanate of Rum (Constantinople player) but maybe the N Byzantium province will have some ranging long-range ?

Captain Semenoff is a veteran, he knows full well something very odd is going on and has important charges.

Grey Wolf

[Midgard]

Considering that the Byzantine airfleet is probably on some sort of patrol, they are likely to see a large airship passing through to what they consider to be "their" homelands, and probably consider it an invitation to attack. Then again, depending on the weather, and considering that the Byzantines do not have radar, it is entirely possible that one of the several things happens:

1) if the weather is sufficiently stormy, the Russian airship might not be spotted
2) the airship passes sufficiently far away from the Byzantine shores where they are not too concerned with it
3) they see the two-headed eagles upon the ship's hull and, thinking it might be one of theirs, try to communicate
4) the Byzantine airships scramble and attempt to assault it. In this scenario, should the Russian airship pass closer to the northern border, it is likely to encounter several smaller airships, which are not likely to attack unless they have complete numerical superiority (I presume "Imperator" is very large, and probably quite well armed as well); if it is closer to the southern border, or to the provincial capital, then "Imperator" might meet its match in a small number of large, powerful "air fortresses" that are probably nearly equal to it in terms of armor, size, or firepower.

Of course, a combination of some of the above might happen as well. Based on your projected trajectory, I would imagine some of the patrols near Varna spotting the ship, but then it depends on whether or not they would consider it potentially friendly (due in no small part to the two-headed eagle symbol which is probably painted somewhere on the hull), or if they decide anything upon their territory to be potentially hostile, and move in a few airships of their own (which, unlike the rest of the Byzantine military, ARE up to speed in terms of technological advancement). Then again, cooler heads might prevail as well - after all, any civilization capable of sending in a huge airship might be capable of sending in many more, and perhaps someone capable of such an accomplishment is indeed a civilized nation where the words might be far mightier than weapons...

BTW, quick question to Grey Wolf - considering that large portions of normally Greek-speaking territories (well, Greek-speaking well into the 1920s in OTL) are under Russian rule, did Russian supercede Greek as the language of Constantinople and surrounding areas, or would a Russian sky captain heading for the former Byzantine capital be generally expected to have at least a rudimentary knowledge of Greek?




OK, I'm posting this here so that people can see it and tell me whether there IS a battle of any sorts

The humungously large imperial sky yacht (armed airship) 'Imperator' is heading South over the Black Sea from the Crimea in the afternoon of Day 2

About midway out across the Black Sea it will turn due South-West and steer a direct course for Constantinople

I am thinking this only affects the Sultanate of Rum (Constantinople player) but maybe the N Byzantium province will have some ranging long-range ?

Captain Semenoff is a veteran, he knows full well something very odd is going on and has important charges.

Grey Wolf

[DominusNovus]

While most of the Sultanate's military is gone, there are still several airforce bases around left. I'd imagine they'd scramble their fighters at the sight of an unknown craft. Then again, they never really had any experience with airships (planes were developed earlier, relative to airships in TTL).

It'll be an interesting encounter. We've got some jets on par with the Me 262 in terms of capability. I've been looking for the coolest looking jet on that luft46 site, but, until then, just assume it looks pretty much like the 262.

[Grey Wolf]

Considering that the Byzantine airfleet is probably on some sort of patrol, they are likely to see a large airship passing through to what they consider to be "their" homelands, and probably consider it an invitation to attack. Then again, depending on the weather, and considering that the Byzantines do not have radar, it is entirely possible that one of the several things happens:

1) if the weather is sufficiently stormy, the Russian airship might not be spotted
2) the airship passes sufficiently far away from the Byzantine shores where they are not too concerned with it
3) they see the two-headed eagles upon the ship's hull and, thinking it might be one of theirs, try to communicate
4) the Byzantine airships scramble and attempt to assault it. In this scenario, should the Russian airship pass closer to the northern border, it is likely to encounter several smaller airships, which are not likely to attack unless they have complete numerical superiority (I presume "Imperator" is very large, and probably quite well armed as well); if it is closer to the southern border, or to the provincial capital, then "Imperator" might meet its match in a small number of large, powerful "air fortresses" that are probably nearly equal to it in terms of armor, size, or firepower.

Of course, a combination of some of the above might happen as well. Based on your projected trajectory, I would imagine some of the patrols near Varna spotting the ship, but then it depends on whether or not they would consider it potentially friendly (due in no small part to the two-headed eagle symbol which is probably painted somewhere on the hull), or if they decide anything upon their territory to be potentially hostile, and move in a few airships of their own (which, unlike the rest of the Byzantine military, ARE up to speed in terms of technological advancement). Then again, cooler heads might prevail as well - after all, any civilization capable of sending in a huge airship might be capable of sending in many more, and perhaps someone capable of such an accomplishment is indeed a civilized nation where the words might be far mightier than weapons...

BTW, quick question to Grey Wolf - considering that large portions of normally Greek-speaking territories (well, Greek-speaking well into the 1920s in OTL) are under Russian rule, did Russian supercede Greek as the language of Constantinople and surrounding areas, or would a Russian sky captain heading for the former Byzantine capital be generally expected to have at least a rudimentary knowledge of Greek?

I will answer the last question first because I am a contrary sort of guy - considering that Konstantine V hated Moscow, destroyed the city as any kind of cultural or religious centre and then rebuilt it as a provincial city, railway hub and industrial zone, I think this is indicative of how he views matters. The elite, for the Thracian/Bulagaria/Constantinople/Anatolian provinces since he took Constantinople in the 1890s will have been Greekified, and since the War of Unification, a dual heritage of Greek and Russian will have dominated court life at Constantinople. It nevertheless remains that it is a RUSSIAN Empire, so although there may be a parity of language in the South, within the Regency proper Russian dominates. However, all educated Russians will learn Greek as their second language. It would also be expected of the higher ranks in imperial service, and thus Captain Semenoff can be assumed to speak Greek, as can Prince Gorshkin and Grand Duke Pavel Konstantinaevich. It is probable that only a few others can, however, probably the navigation and radio officers and any other noble-born amongst the Blue Cuirassiers

As for the airships, all Russian airships bear the Romanov eagle upon the side as established in one of the earlier parts of Atmosphere.

Looking at the map, the course plotted is intended to stay away from land as much as possible, hence the sailing due South from the Crimea until the centre of the sea then the course South-Westerly

Grey Wolf

[Grey Wolf]

While most of the Sultanate's military is gone, there are still several airforce bases around left. I'd imagine they'd scramble their fighters at the sight of an unknown craft. Then again, they never really had any experience with airships (planes were developed earlier, relative to airships in TTL).

It'll be an interesting encounter. We've got some jets on par with the Me 262 in terms of capability. I've been looking for the coolest looking jet on that luft46 site, but, until then, just assume it looks pretty much like the 262.

Ah I loved the Luft 46 site, especially the wing-shaped aircraft which I used to use as a wallpaper

I can imagine aeroplane without propellers hurtling past the airship at great speed will seem extremely confusing - its unlikely the crew of the Imperator will even realise they ARE aeroplanes because they know those as flimsy canvas-and-wood things with usually two banks of wings and a propeller

Although well armed, the airship is of course equipped primarily to fire at other airships, so the tracking will be completely redundant. That won't of course prevent a good brain from being able to workl out incoming trajectories - as stated earlier, ranging and viewing is almost a science in its own right in the navy, and the airships are viewed as naval vessels

Grey Wolf

[Cockroach]

Only concerned with movements at 3: New Holland: 5000 VOC infantry and 500 local Cavarly 25 medium guns (75mm-95mm) Note: tech level circa 1900, machine guns while present are comparitivly rear (aprox 1 machine gun to 200 men)
UOPD: elements of the 2nd Division of the ANZAC corp (4300 men), 2nd Mounted Rifles (750 men), Royal New South Wales Lancers (400 men), 5 Vickers Medium Mk IIA medium tanks, 8 Vicker Light Tanks Mk VI, 35 Field guns (18 pounders and 25 pounders) Note: tech level 1930s, light machine guns are common (1 per 15 men) heavy machine guns are also in use (1 per 50 men)

Well I guess I will make the Dutch lose.

[G.Bone]

There are approximately 7 division's worth of men occupying the colored areas. (3 are supply regiments) There are also about 1 "Wing" involved in the bombardment.

Anyhoo, since the downloading didn't work on photoshop, imagine the occupying forces holding most of Liaoning, West (but not entirely consisting of) Inner Mongolia, and parts of the provence that borders Liaoning on it's eastern border.

For better reference, consult this map
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/china/chinaprov.gif

[Grey Wolf]

You are using anachronistic modern Chinese province names there

The area around Peking and including it is called Chihli for example and is rather important :)

Grey Wolf

[G.Bone]

Well....damn Photoshop only downloaded half of the map I wanted to display, so try to imagine the areas that I said in my post as the areas that have been "occupied" but not fully. Peking, I should note, is an area of contention in Chinese High Command due to the "temporary" capital of China being Shanghai and Peking as a "figurehead" capital (much akin to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem in Isreal, minus the international recognition :) )

[DuQuense]

Whe haven't had any real Battles Yet, Your troops are just acroos the Liao & Xar-Moran Rivers. at this Point. 7 divisions = I assume 140.000 thousand soldiers with 60.000 being Supply types. Give me a chance to post my counter post before you post any more.

[Grey Wolf]

My general with a screw loose, General Zhuzhgov will concentrate and attack a single bridge over the Amur. He has a force consisting of a single reserve division, roughly made up of the following :-

4 regiments
(each with 2 batallions of infantry and 1 brigade of cavalry)
hardly any transport, will march or ride to the scene

1 'regiment' of artillery
has tractors and trucks to pull the artillery

There is no aerial support. He also believes the defensive wall on the bank of the Amur to be a ruse, a hastily-thrown together defence which looks stronger than it really is.

Note that although termed as a reserve division, the situation on the ATL Eastern front was a rotational one, and this division is the one which at the time had been rotated out of the front line for a rest.

He will probably attack on Day 6

Grey Wolf

[G.Bone]

Firedrake Division
Bulldog Division
Draker Division
Scorner Division*
[tanks]
8th Republican Guard
11th Striker Infantry Division*
12th Striker Infantry Division*
13th Striker Infantry Division ("One and Three's")

34th Supply Division [mechanics]
35th Supply Division [mechanics]
3rd Civil Engineer Division [bridge/air strip builders]
4th Medical Supply Division [medical]

Northern Air Wing
-Checker Squadron (Bombers)-light
-Planter Squadron (Bombers)
-Diver Squadron (Fighters)
-Piquot Squadron (Fighters)

*recently merged with the "Third Liberation Army"

[I]Not included in this list is the;

7th Artillery Brigade
II Northern Air Wing

(Due to continued survelliance of the occupied areas)

Full penetration of the attack will commence on Day 6 (along with the Russians)

[DuQuense]

@ GBone

I pulled this from your initial Posting of China. Do you want to Edit it [maybe this is per division of something.]

Army Air Wing
40 Fighter planes (similar to the P-51 design)
30 Bombers
20 Heavy Bombers
20 Scout Planes

If this remains your total airwing i'll have air superiority by the first day of Fighting.

How many Tanks in a Divison, and what kind are they [ Post a link to a photo]

[DuQuense]

http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?TRN-091

I have 1250 tanks [per my initial posting] 250 of them are in Manchouko, and 200 of them are the bottom Machine type [designed to stop small infantry raids. 300 of the thousand on it's way south are also machine guns, the other 700 are split between the other two types shown. [of bottom three]

Remember this is '39 - No- Shermans, Leopards, or King Panzers

[G.Bone]

There are about 8 tanks to a division.

The type that the Chinese have are similar to the Panzer 1 design;
click (http://www.military.cz/panzer/tanks/germany/panzer_1/image/panzer_1_1.jpg)
as well as this design;
click (http://www.military.cz/panzer/tanks/germany/jagdpanzer_4/image/jagd_panzer_4_1.jpg)

Much of the tanks that are currently occupying Manchuria are of this design although there is the Drake version;
click here (http://www.military.cz/panzer/tanks/canada/ram1/image/ram1_1.jpg)

Due to the Event, there hasn't really been a full 'uniting' of all the forces. Thus, it can be reasoned that they do have a whole lot of men but most are in other places and have not been called up yet. This can be applied to the Army Air Wing, which possess;

350 fighters
355 bombers
200 scouts

and 300 currently either in repair or in their hangers for some odd reason or the other.

[DuQuense]

Much of the tanks that are currently occupying Manchuria

You are not occuping Manchuko, In a few places your forces have crossed the River, and my forces have given way while waiting for reinforcements. I suggest whe have three battles Shenyang, Capital of Liagpong. Anshan on the road to north Korea, and Changchun on the road to Harbin, As you are invading You have to state what forces you have at each site. Remember you started this with seven Attack divisions. And you may want to edit your Tanks /divison [like your airplanes] [I should just let it go and demolish you] 7 div times 8 tank/div = 56 tanks total.

Day 7 Morning. I pulled 5 divisions Infantry and two artilery out of the Amur line on the second day about 6-700 north of Changchun i figure 5 days to move them is about right, not to fast, but ASAP. another 5 hours for the 200 miles to Shenyang.

Changchun
Two Divisions [20.000 men each] one artilery division of 250- 8 " Guns,& 500- 5" Guns. 400 tanks. 200 of them the machine gun type. Just arived in town and preparing to advance toward the river. A also have 200 [36 class] Fighters , like this http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~wingman/

Ashan-
5.000 Troops In place- one division of Reserve Infantry should arrive about noon. 200 tanks , 100 Machine type. 100 [36 class Fighters] and 20 Falcon Class fighters. one battalion of artillery , 100 -8" 120-5"

Shenyang -
7.000 troops in place one division of reserve should arrive by midmorning, 120 tanks 40 of them Machine gun type 120 [36 class Fighters] 120 Falcon class fighters, 3 companies of Artilery -30 -8" & 36-5" Guns , 3 divisions of The Amur Frontline troops should arrive about 1600-1700 hrs. along with a Division of artilery. My Falcons will try to take the air, against the emeny aircraft, while my 36's will consintrate on ground surrport.


Map http://encarta.msn.com/map_701512132/Manchuria.html

[G.Bone]

I must admit that my earlier postings did not contain the minute detail as was expected in "battle posts". I do stand by the idea that 7 divisions are occupying Manchuria, but I did not actually state on where in Manchuria that my troops were occupying. I had the idea of them occupying a small swath of land outside of the ISOT "border", but the current postings by you and GW have assumed that the occupied land was actually bigger than my estimation. I apologize for not stating my intentions but I was going to put it into detail later on.

I'm just curious DQ, do you have actual experience in role playing? I'm just curious on that.

Day 7:
Due to confusion at High Command and lack of a cohesive agenda, the 7 divisions within Manchuria move back to their old positions, thereby leaving their occupied land to their original owners.

[Grey Wolf]

Maybe the point and purpose of this thread needs to be reinforced especially as regards the current problem with General Paul's Indians activities

Grey Wolf

[perdedor99]

How the hell his subs know exactly where to go? Check the planes in the French inventory, they are as good or not better than anything the Indians have. If the attack by GP is accepted as it's is most likely the counter strike of the French carriers send the British carrier to his dead. But of coursr GP will say the dama is minor while 90% of the French fleet was sunk. He needs to prove his information before posting. I doubt not a lot of sub would have got thru the pickets in the Sumatran straits. And pretty much doubt his main fleet could have bombarded invasion forces and got thru undetected when the French landing zone is on the other side of Sumatra in the Palembang area. In the contrary, just to get there must likely have to run a gauntlet of subs. Too many holes and too convenient to his side. Need to run it thru Duquense before posting in my opinion.

[General_Paul]

Uh, actually, I never said that I'd fight it if my fleet went to the bottom...although it'd be one hell of a bad thing, I'll accept the terms if my fleet ends up at the bottom of the indian ocean.

[DuQuense]

I've just spent the last four hours on the net, flipping back and forth between Here- the PMs- and Info sites

List of Ships (Remember, this ISN'T OTL):

Aircraft Carriers: (All Carriers are outfitted with torpedo bombers, and a handful of fighters)
CV Glorious

Battleships:
BBS Warspite
BBS Prince of Wales

Heavy Cruisers:
Hotspur

Submarines:
10 Hunter Killer Submarines
10 Anti-Shipping Submarines
1 scout

Destroyers:
20 Destroyers
25 Destroyer Escorts

Cruisers:
5 Cruisers

Aircraft:

Most fighters are either older Bi-Planes, or are foreign built/bought aircraft used in secondary roles.

Whe have already established that the French have subs off India, They Hit the Prince of Wales and sent her to dry dock. As GP has established a more Industrialized India, Whe give him the shipyard to repair the PoW,

As Far as I can tell there were no Hunter Killer Subs pre WW2, Subs were either Coastal or Ocean, depending on their range, Since these Subs Sailed here Whe will assume GP has 20 lone range ocean Subs.

GP only lists one Carrier The Glorious. Its normal Complement was 36 Swordfish Bombers and 6 fighters. As the Hurricane was developed in 1936 & the Spitfire in 1937, Whe have to give him, Ship versions by 1939 ATL. [I think the Spitfire more likely]. But I see nothing in his posts to change the total complement number, pre event. And I don't see a Need for sepcial torpedoes, as Palemburg Harbor isn't as Shallow as Pearl.

P99 says his Japanese [I][U]Volunters are patrolling the Straits of Malacca. When the Warspite tryed to run it. It got Sunk. Except I would expect the Destroyer escorts to sink several of the Japanese subs. Espesacilly Captians stupid enuff to stick their periscopes up in the Middle of the Battle.

My main Problem is there seem to be a lack of PMing each other before starting the Battles, You don't seem to have agreed on where theBattle is to take place. [ Yes I know I was guilty of this before I set up my Battle Thread, But GBone and I were just in the pre battle Phase, and He pulled back instead].

Ward claims that the Main French fleet is 30 Miles north of the Harbor. While GP Belives that the Main Fleet is in the Harbor.

If GP wants to write a peice about his Fleet sinking the French Sub off the Coast of India. then sneaking down the south coast of Sumatra and thru the Java Gap. Then the Attack on the Harbor Seceeds. But It sinks the merchant supply ships and Escorts, not the Main Fleet. It would also betray the Possible position of the India Fleet. The two of You have to decide wheither the French catch up , with a sea Battle- or the India fleet manages to escape, to return another day.

If You decide to have the Sea Battle each of you PM me with what Ships you will have at the battle.

[Ward]

I will give General Paul that he sunk the 4 transpots and three DD 's that were escorting them. He also killed 800 of the troops and sailors and wounded another 1,350 men.
I also think that his fleet would be spotted by my search aircraft ,
From my Crusiers .

I have changed wildcats to Navy Morane 406
The Dauntless to Loire Nieaport LN. 401
These are French Aircraft from that time . instead of US aircraft .
The Mirane 406 is not as good as the wildcat in speed . it can dogfight.

[DuQuense]

If this harbor attack is just a 1st round, do't forget to post your battle posts showing the fights from your peoples veiwpoints, before you move to the next round.

And PM each other and decide where and when and what, is the next round going to be .

The Moderators job is to decide what happens after you meet. He's not suppose to have to decide the run up.

[Ward]

I will give General Paul that he sunk the 4 transpots and three DD 's that were escorting them. He also killed 800 of the troops and sailors and wounded another 1,350 men.
I also think that his fleet would be spotted by my search aircraft ,
From my Crusiers .

I have changed wildcats to Navy Morane 406
The Dauntless to Loire Nieaport LN. 401
These are French Aircraft from that time . instead of US aircraft .
The Mirane 406 is not as good as the wildcat in speed . it can dogfight.


To General Collin
From General A.b Hillden Commander of the 1st Naval Div.

The Battle of sitting Duck Habor .
About 1 1/2 hrs after sun Rise of the 21st of sept .1939 thw planes of the Indian Fleet Attacked out of the sun into the Harbor .
The India Aircraft were flying in at about 30 feet .
The Troops Transports were unloding the last units of the 16 nav Battion,
21st naval Battion , 23 rd Naval Battion , and the 1st Mess Battion.
when the attack started .
The Transports had unlorded 68% of are units supplys at this time .
The DD's Le Malin , Bourrasque , Typhon . Were at GQ and had there AA Guns maned as did the Transports . The Caption of the Typhon as Sr Officer of the Naval unit had ordered them there 1/2 hr before sun rise .
Are ships opened fire as soon as they saw the attacking aircraft but they were not able to stop the attack .
We did shoot down 8 swordfish and 2 attacking Fighters .
The Indian Fighters were firing on the men in the Water as they were trying to swim ashore.
I am Very imprested with Major Le Daru of the 23rd Ainti Aircraft Battion he had set his guns up on the Shore the night of the 20/21 of Sept 1939 .
They were the ones who shot down 3 of the Swordfish and the Indian Fighters . I will recomand him for the Mearit Medal.
We lost 800 killed and 1,350 wonded .
We also had a stange acourance when 1 hr after the attack the DD Le Malin (2) came into the Harbor to help pick up surrvers she dissapered in a shimmering light .
We will need more supplys and the Next two weeks.
I have the Eng. Co . building a airbase as or this time . They are being help by te 3Rd Naval Inf. Reg. It should be done in about six days.

[G.Bone]

Okay- since I'm Battle Thread mod, I'd like to advise those parties to;

1) Write your sentences so that people can understand them
This means none of this:

They are being help by te 3Rd Naval Inf. Reg.

Try write it out as this:

They are being helped by the Third Naval Infantry Regiment

2) Please do not change the units involved in your attack once they are in battle

That is quite an irritant to those whom already have been committed in the field and can lead that same person to further annoyance if continued.

Thank you for your time. :D

[Ward]

Okay- since I'm Battle Thread mod, I'd like to advise those parties to;

1) Write your sentences so that people can understand them
This means none of this:



Try write it out as this:



2) Please do not change the units involved in your attack once they are in battle

That is quite an irritant to those whom already have been committed in the field and can lead that same person to further annoyance if continued.

Thank you for your time. :D


I keep forgetting that most of you are not exmilitary I'm use to writting a unit like this 1/21/6 which would be the 1st Battion of the 21st Regamnt of the 6 Divison .

As for changeing the Equpment I went to All French and they are not as good as what I had . I just thought it would be better to go with what was all french .

I have an idea for how aircombat could be resoved fo the Moderator
Let us say I have 40 Fighters attacking 60 Fighters the moderater takes 6 d10 and rolls for loses for the attacker exp. he rolled a 5,6,3, 5,1,8 and adds this up = 28 loses for the attackers and then he rolles for the deffender and that is the loses for the two sides . this could work for most aircombat .
if aircraft are better take 1 dice away if they are worst add a dice .

[DuQuense]

Fleet battle

I rolled the Dice
As The Fench are the Attackers and The Indians said they would concentrate on the Bombers. GP's Fighter ruthlessly use there speed advantage to stay away from the French fighters, shooting down 11 bombers and 2 fighters, The Indians lose all 8 of their 6 fighters. :rolleyes:

Moving on the the Fleet the French launch 13 tordepoes, 9 hit. I assinged numbers to the Indian ships. 2 hits on a lite cruiser, sunk, 4 hits on destroyers, one of them sunk. 2 hits on the escorts, one sunk. One hit on the carrier.
5 of the attacking Bombers are downed by AA fire.

[perdedor99]

Proposed invasion of Albania First week of October 1939
Will be launched depending of how well the Germans and Romans are doing north.

2 battleships (Caracciolo class)
2 heavy cruisers
4 light cruisers
16 destroyers
20 subs

3 infantry divisions at 80 to 100 percent ready as first wave:
They will be landed near Durazzo.
Second wave will be the 2 more infantry divisions at 75 to 80 percent and the elite Bersaglieri Division.

Caracciolo class BB: 29knts, 8 X 15" guns (2 dual turrets forward, 2 dual turrets aft), 29,400 tons STD displacement.

A division in theory contained three infantry regiments of three battalions each, one artillery regiment of nine batteries of 4 guns each, an anti-aircraft and anti-tank battery and a engineer company. In theory the division numbered around 12,000 men, 84 45mm mortars, 24 81mm mortars, 12 regimental 65mm infantry guns, 24 divisional 75mm guns, 12 100mm howitzers, 8 37mm or 47mm AT guns and 4 AA 20mm guns. The infantry divisions had little or no mechanical transport. In reality only around 40% of the infantry divisions reached the above mentioned levels

The Bersaglieri Division contained four infantry regiments of three battalions each (2 in bicycles and one motorized), two artillery regiment, two anti-aircraft batteries, an engineer company and four regimental AT batteries. Total manpower of this division was 16,000 men, 112 45mm mortars, 24 81mm mortars, 16 regimental 65mm infantry guns, 48 divisional 75mm guns, 24 100mm howitzers, 8 AA 20mm guns and 24 AT 47mm guns.

[DominusNovus]

Hey, before I start involving myself in the combat, what details should I provide on my forces?

[General_Paul]

German-Austrian Battler: Battle of Budapest: October 15, 1939

German Forces:

First-fifth Infantry Divisions
Fourth, Seventh, tenth, and fifteenth Armored Divisions
First, third, and fifth bomber fleets
First Airborne Batalion
First, and third Combat Engineering batalions
Fourth SS division


Austro-Hungarian forces:


German forces enter the foprmer capital of Hungary in force. Resistance has been what is expected.

[Condottiero]

Are we already in October? :confused:

[Imajin]

??? I thought Budapest was within the OTL zone..

[Grey Wolf]

Are we already in October? :confused:

I'm on Day/Sep 22/22nd

I believe we should now be at October but there is a lag effect

I'll try to catch up myself, but as you can see from Atmosphere there is rather a lot happening in Saint Petersburg and some things can't be rushed

Grey Wolf

[Ward]

Hey, before I start involving myself in the combat, what details should I provide on my forces?



You should Have the Units that are there and how they are organized
expal General Pauls 1-5 Inf Div are made up like this Real TOE from German Army Gerneral Paul
17,200 men organized in 3 each Inf Regs of 3250 men
with 3 inf Battions of 858 men in 3 each Inf co's the co had 20 SMG 6x LMG and 3 HMG and the rest had Rifles . 1HV weapons co with 6x81mm morts and 12 HMG
it has 1 Battery of 6x75 mm How towed, 2 x 150mm How towed
an anti Tank Battery with 8x 37 mm Anti tank guns
the Div has 1 reg of art 2.500 men
2x Battions with 24x 105 or 100 mm Guns
1 x Battion of 12 x 150 mm Guns
the Divs has a cav battion of 625 men that has 73 SMG 24 LMG, 8 HMG . 3 50mm mort., 4x 81mm Morts., and 2x 75mm Inf Guns and 2 Armord Cars
the Div has a battion of Anti Tank Guns with 550 men 47 SMG ,18 LMG, 24x 37mm Anti Tank Guns .
the Div has 1 eng Battion with 843 men
the Divs has a supply unit of 2,874 men
this would give of the strength of your unit .

[DominusNovus]

You should Have the Units that are there and how they are organized
expal General Pauls 1-5 Inf Div are made up like this Real TOE from German Army Gerneral Paul
17,200 men organized in 3 each Inf Regs of 3250 men
with 3 inf Battions of 858 men in 3 each Inf co's the co had 20 SMG 6x LMG and 3 HMG and the rest had Rifles . 1HV weapons co with 6x81mm morts and 12 HMG
it has 1 Battery of 6x75 mm How towed, 2 x 150mm How towed
an anti Tank Battery with 8x 37 mm Anti tank guns
the Div has 1 reg of art 2.500 men
2x Battions with 24x 105 or 100 mm Guns
1 x Battion of 12 x 150 mm Guns
the Divs has a cav battion of 625 men that has 73 SMG 24 LMG, 8 HMG . 3 50mm mort., 4x 81mm Morts., and 2x 75mm Inf Guns and 2 Armord Cars
the Div has a battion of Anti Tank Guns with 550 men 47 SMG ,18 LMG, 24x 37mm Anti Tank Guns .
the Div has 1 eng Battion with 843 men
the Divs has a supply unit of 2,874 men
this would give of the strength of your unit .

uhhh....
:eek:
Thats a lot.

[Ward]

[QUOTE=General_Paul]German-Austrian Battler: Battle of Budapest: October 15, 1939

German Forces:

First-fifth Infantry Divisions
Fourth, Seventh, tenth, and fifteenth Armored Divisions
First, third, and fifth bomber fleets
First Airborne Batalion
First, and third Combat Engineering batalions
Fourth SS division




General Paul how did you get the 4 th SS Div its not field yet I belive this is the was fromed with Norwegins in 1940/41 Did not have time to look up in my history of the SS right now . Also the 2nd Inf Div is the 2nd motorized Div . or PzGd Div . By the why there is no 15th Armored Div at this time .
the German Army had in Oct of 1939 these Armored Divs
1st, 2nd ,3rd, 4th,5th and 10th Armored Div or Pz Divs
the Also had 1st, 2nd ,3rd, and 4th Lt Pz Div.
The Airborn is not in the Army it is a Lufwaffe unit and part of the 7th Sturm Div .
I have a German Unit of Battle from 1 sept of 1939-june 1940

I'm watching you keep it true to the units in your Army at this time .

[Ward]

When dose General Pauls units change and not get raised as historical raising should we make him keep the histoical toe for the 1st year to june of 1940 . i think we should .

[Grey Wolf]

When dose General Pauls units change and not get raised as historical raising should we make him keep the histoical toe for the 1st year to june of 1940 . i think we should .

I agree with you. IF Nazi Germany is supposed to be OTL, then at least in the first few months he should use OTL units. It would take at least a few months to conceptualise something else and to form them, and even if they are formed in January 1940 they will still be armed as per Janu 1940 OTL whether they bear one appellation or another

Grey Wolf

[General_Paul]

Alright then, sorry for the MISNAMING of SS units...jeesh guys. Sorry. I will check my historical references before I post...

[Grey Wolf]

Alright then, sorry for the MISNAMING of SS units...jeesh guys. Sorry. I will check my historical references before I post...

Good-oh lol :)

You can see why I didn't want to play Russia as in a wargame, I could never keep track of all those units and divisions

Grey Wolf

[Condottiero]

September 19, 1939

The Sultanate of Tumbuktu ISOTed authorities claim that the british have destroyed their capital city. They have sent several forces that are raiding empty lands in Senegal, Mali and Nigera and adding them to Dar-el-Islam. They have sent also a force to punish the Niger Colony of British Central Africa:

Attackers:
Irregular tumbuktuan cavalry 77500 men (most of them recruited from touareg tribes on their march)
Regular tumbuktuan cavalry 11000 men (more disciplined but equipped only with rifles)
10 55mm guns of german fabrication
15 german armoured vehicles with guns of 28 mm.
10 biplanes


Defenders (defending the region around the capital where most of the white colonists have their possesions):
Colonial Infantry 10000 men (equipped with rifles)
1 mec regiment of Regular British Infantry equipped (1500 men, 120 armored trucks and 7 tanks with 37 mm guns)
7 fighters
Spanish-african allied forces
2nd Brigade of Parachute division N. 21 (3000 strong men with 1 12,7mm MG per ten men and 10 Almogávar Atl-2VL vehicles with 4 MGs each and reinforced with two batteries of five 80mm guns)
1st. wing of desert airships (4 Simoun bombers and 2 Tramontana scouts)
1st. wing of Simoun bombers (10 units)
3rd. wing of Tramontana scouts (6 units)
1 wing of Bleriot fighters (10 units) (with four MG and faster than the german planes)

At the same time Hispanoafrican forces will try to occupy the city of Nouadibou and its surroundings:

Defenders:
1000 german regular infantrymen
7000 regular tumbuktuan cavalrymen
30 110mm guns
2 old destroyers with 95 mm guns


Attackers:
124th Cavalry Brigade (2000 men)
Light Infantry division N. 56 (17500 men)
Mechanized division N. 13 (15000 men with 300 Babieca Atl-Half Tracks and 100 80mm light guns and 20 Campeador Atl-5VA tanks with 52mm guns)
1st. Brigade of Armoured division N. 2 (basically 150 Campeador Atl-5VA tanks and 10 120mm howitzers
3rd. wing of Simoun bombers (10 units)
1st. wing of Tramontana scouts (5 units)
1st. wing of Light bombers (10 FIAT units)
4 wings of Bleriot fighters (60 units)
Supported by one Washington type battlecruiser and one brand new destroyer with 2x2 120mm guns + 2 old destroyers with 105 mm guns + three submarines from the Atlantic fleet.



* See technology thread for specifications on the aiships

A british task force is going to attack the coast in two weeks

[DominusNovus]

Fuck it. I'm gonna invade Germany. Bastards invaded me first. Besides, they're evil, and you all know it. :D

I've got 50 legions in the area, with more coming over. Thats about half a million men. Anyone who's got a mind for details want to suggest any stats for me? I've got a game to watch, so I can't be bothered at the moment.

Go Sox. :cool:

PS
I hate wargamming. :p

[General_Paul]

Well then, have it your way. I am launching a full retaliatory airstrike against him. Using Mustard Gas, Sarin Gas, Chlorine Gas, and normal explosives. My forces stationed in the area are going on full alert. And if anyone's got a problem with it, I don't give a rat's ass.

[Ward]

Fuck it. I'm gonna invade Germany. Bastards invaded me first. Besides, they're evil, and you all know it. :D

I've got 50 legions in the area, with more coming over. Thats about half a million men. Anyone who's got a mind for details want to suggest any stats for me? I've got a game to watch, so I can't be bothered at the moment.

Go Sox. :cool:

PS
I hate wargamming. :p




Let us have you use the British Inf div of 1940 for your Legions
each have 15,500 men
with three Brigs each have 3 battions in them of 850 men
the Battion has a hq co with and eng plt.,1 plt with Bren Carriers, 1 art plt with 4x25 pdrs, 1 plt of AA .
4 line cos with 1x 76mm Mort 3x LMG , 2x SMG . 3x 50 mm morts
you have an art brig which has 36x 25 pdr art , and 48 2 pdr anti Tank Guns
and 12x 90 mm AA guns.
an eng Battion of 763 men
an cav Batt of 630 men on Motor bikes .
your troops all have Gas masks and full kits and have 5 days of supplys with them .

[Condottiero]

As I am a beginner in this Mosaic Earth, I have prepared a battle between two of my countries (in my ISOTed area).
Do I need a moderator? How are moderators assigned?

[G.Bone]

1. Write up the numbers
2. Write up the battles within reason & no whipping out of atomic bombs that you didn't include in the initial listings
3. Write up the battle

Technically I am battle mod but things have been progressing on their own, so I'll simply stop by to see if you're battle is going all right

[Grey Wolf]

As I am a beginner in this Mosaic Earth, I have prepared a battle between two of my countries (in my ISOTed area).
Do I need a moderator? How are moderators assigned?

Personally I think you can decide it yourself, as it affects or upsets no one

For example, I knew in my one division attack on DQ's lines that he would whip me on the Amur so I wrote it that way

Also, I don't want anyone to adjudicate on revolution, civil war etc within the Russian Empire

Grey Wolf

[Condottiero]

Sir Archibald did not love waiting he knew that the northafrican airships were bombing the tumbuktuan columns. How efficient would be the high altitude bombing against moving columns, he was not sure of. But he knew that then the fighters and the "Tramontanas" airships would come to pour a rain of lead over them. He had been told that the T-s had instructions of hunting their tanks, that would make the rest of the Sultan´s army to arrive earlier, but it would have shorter teeth and then his tanks and the armored light vehicles of the northafricans would do the job.


*****

They had suffered a light punishment after all, just a few hundreds of the jihad volunteer riders dead, they have lost all of the slow toys of the germans, but that would make them faster. He ordered the germans to take the useful machine guns from the destroyed...
"Allahu Akhbar!!!". The damned british and the northafrican renegades would feel the power of the fist of the Allmighty.


****************
September 20, 1939
The first phase of the battle of Agadez started when the tumbuktuan forces entered territory of the Niger colony. They suffered the attack of 14 high altitude Simoun bombers. The bombardment was quite inefective but disrupted the tumbuktuan lines. Half an hour later when the army was rallying they were attacked by the british and northafrican fighters what caused several hundreds of casualties and by some Tramontana airships that hunted all the german tanks and artillery. The northafricans lost three fighters and the british five.
Until the tumbuktuan army contacts the northafrican-british forces in one day they will suffer another attack from the bombers and almost continuos attacks from the fighters and the T-s.

On the meantime the attack on Nouadhibouh has started. The northafrican fleet sunk the ships in the bay, and started the bombardment of the german fortifications. The northafrican infantry supported by armored units will start an assault in ten hours. At the moment most of the german artillery has been silenced but two bombers and four fighters were lost by the northafricans...

[Condottiero]

I have a problem, it seems that the geographical changes has also implied climatic ones and I have a huge storm ravaging the area...

I have now almost one hundred thousand riders "riding" in the mud (a thing they probably have never done before) towards thirty thousand infantrymen with tanks stuck on the mud and no planes to support.

Any ideas about the outcome?

[DuQuense]

These are Thunder storms, Mostly in the North desert regions, They wouldn't affect the Senghel, Grass lands of Niger, or Mali,

?Would they charge the Mass guns, or would they look for a way to outflank them?

[DuQuense]

There hasn't been a update on the German Hungrary war for a while. ?Could this be because the two sides are running out of Gas.? If I am reading the Romainian area rite, it is not excatly a major oil producer. If fact I don't see any Major oil producer. ?How much of their stockpile did the Septembre 1st- Mixup with the Roman Union- burn up?

[Condottiero]

These are Thunder storms, Mostly in the North desert regions, They wouldn't affect the Senghel, Grass lands of Niger, or Mali,

?Would they charge the Mass guns, or would they look for a way to outflank them?

Well I thought it might be interesting to extend the storms to the lands of Niger and Mali...

Of course the tumbuktuans would try to outflank, the allied tanks were supposed to protect the agadez possitions from it. However they are deffending the town, that means sitting all around of it.

[Condottiero]

The unexpected rains had hindered the mobility of the allies, however they had been able to move the armored vehicles from one side of the city to other helping the infantry defenders. However it had been a hard job to keep the tumbuktuans away.

The men of the Sultan had surprised them, they did not expect such a fast attack. The idea was that the water mixed with sand would stop the tumbuktuan cavalrymen and allow the air support to come, but those optimistic previsions never came through. The tumbuktuan advanced in the wet sand, some of them were engulfed by quicksands but they managed to arrive to their lines. The toll had been terrific and thousands of men were killed by the allied machine guns or the artillery fire, however the tumbuktuans paid it gladly.

Fortunatelly the northafricans had also been busy all the night carpetting the floor with stones and bricks in order to allow the armoured cars to move (the tanks were too heavy), and that had saved them as where the militiamen or the paratroopers faltered an armoured car appeared closing the gap with its mounted machine guns.

By noon, after six hours of intense fight the skies cleared and the nothafrican airships appeared and the tumbuktuan determination disappeared. The fanatic warriors turned back and dissapeared in the sands of the dessert. For how long? Nobody knew, but when the second brigade of paratroopers was falling over the outskirts of Agadez there was no tumbuktuan there to answer but the dead...

The T-s "escorted" the tumbuktuan force for one more day leaving a trail of dead men and horses.

****
The result of the battle of Agadez:
Tumbuktuan losses: 15 german tanks, 7 fighters, 37000 men (dead, wounded or dissapeared), 10 guns (4 destroyed and 6 captured by the enemy)

Allied loses: 2 british tanks, 3 northafrican Almogavar vehicles, 2 80 mm guns destroyed, 12 fighters (Some of them lost due to the storm, 6 british and 6 northafrican), 4700 colonial infantry troopers, 900 northafrican paratroopers, 300 british infantrymen and 30 trucks.

[Condottiero]

The german possitions suffered a strong bombardment for more than ten hours from the naval units by the coast and the howitzers from a nearby hill, then during the night the defensive positions were assaulted by infantry and mecanized units. By dawn everything was over.

Losses:
Tumbuktuan forces:
500 german infantrymen dead
1200 tumbuktuan cavalrymen dead
22 110 mm guns destroyed

prisoners:
7800 tumbuktuan
500 german
8 110 mm guns

One destroyer disabled and other one sunk. An armed transport sunk

Northafricans:
2 howitzers destroyed
1 Bleriot fighter
500 dead infantrymen
5 Atl-half trucks destroyed
10 Campeador tanks lost


One column of 12000 tumbuktuan riders is on their way to the town but they will retreat when they see the northafrican flag on the fortifications.

[Grey Wolf]

Poor ole Tumbuktuans - reminds me of reading the small wars stuff about how the French dealt with the Arab forces in Chad, or aroudn where you are, the rebellion in the Great War. Lots of heroic charges, lots of deaths. The Europeans come out on top

What are the aims of the Spanish Africans in this ? To remove a potential threat (Germans ?) or to gain something in particular for themselves ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[DuQuense]

Sheik Hassan ibn-Aqr has 1200 fanitical Camel Calvery, Timbukians, on a Jihad against the British
Crusaders, and these new [Copts]. He has rifles [I assume 1930's German made] and German Machine Guns
[?how many?]

Nagast Hazbox'r has 2 legions of infantry, [mixed pike & bow, Leather covered plywood shelds], with another
half legion [600] of infantry, and a full legion of Elephant* Calvery in reserve. There is also a legion of Calvery moving north [about 1-1.5 hours] behind the Sheik. This is why the Nagast, waited, to counter attack.

*[Pygmy Elephants from Crete, about the size of a large Cyldesdale or Shire. Bred for the last 4.000 years
as War Animals.]

ps, IIRC Elephants and Camels do not like each other.

[G.Bone]

As Battle Mod I say that although the allied forces seem to have gotten the upper hand, due to the amount of deaths, this battle is a draw

[Condottiero]

Yes they have expelled the tumbuktuan charge but they do not have enough forces to march out of Agadez and make the tumbuktuans leave Niger Colony. I suppose they are now in some sort of stalemate that will be broken when the allies receive some subtantial support from spanish north africa or the tumbuktuans receive some more reinforcements...


The riding incursion force entering "coptish" (Empire of the Lakes) territory are equipped with German made rifles (1930s or older) and a couple of MG, they did not expected finding an hostile force. They have sacked one "coptish" settlement and they are heading north seeking to contact ottoman lines by the mediterranean.

[Grey Wolf]

I think we are going to have to bring the renegade SS invading Lithuania into a moderated forum

I've been quite nice to them, allowed their numbers to be in the thousands, assumed good leadership, fanatical but intelligent men and good tactics. And so far I've stated that they are being contained by the Lithuanian defence forces

I cannot believe that the renegade SS have any armour to speak of, and certainly no air power.

In taking over playing the Baltic Federation, WMD gave me discretion to alter some of the past if it made more sense for me. In so doing I have made them WEAKER in this encounter so far. I've envisdaged that all three republics would have infantry based defensive forces who would come into play in the first instance, with some local air power available. I envisage further that there is a federal force behind them with the armour and the main air power but the political decision to commit this is a major one and so far has been avoided.

I've asked General Paul for some word on what he envisages these SS doing, or whether they are being played to die

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[DuQuense]

Military--- [ISOTed] The Empire has close to a 500.000 Highly disciplined, & trained professional Soldiers, divided between the Navy 90.000 with 800 war Galleys spread from Tripoli to the Red Sea. The Infantry 250.000 [think Roman Legions here, 1.500 Men per] The Calvary 60.000 riding Pygmy elephants [slightly larger that a Clydesdale or a Shire], brought back from Crete 5.000 years earlier, and bred for this. Archers 75.000, [both Long and Cross] and about 25.000 artillery, [Catapults, Stingers, Orangers, ect.., with 5.000 years of development]
================================================== ===================

Port Tryx'poly - Six infantry Legions Two legions of Archers, One Phalanx of Calvary, and One Legion of Artillery.
Port Byngx'hazik - Four Infantry Legions, One Archer, One Calvary, One Artillery.

Port Tx'bez [Mouth of the Great River] [Surt]- Eight Legions Infantry, Four Legions Archers, Two Phalanx Calvary, Two Legions Artillery.

Port SyX'nka [Grand Canal north] Four Infantry, Three Calvary, Two Archer, One Artillery.

[Grey Wolf]

Well, I have been completely stymied and, yea, paralysed in my ability to do anything by not having answers to what the hell these SS guys are doing and whether I can just kill them.

Also not sure many people are really playing this thing anymore, and whether in those terms its worth the investment of time I had been giving it. In many ways it seems as if Russia was the main focus of a lot of people's play, so I am very grateful to those people's contributions (you know who you are)

But a world without Britain, France and it seems now Germany, Poland, Turkey etc being played becomes something of a pointless one IMHO

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Condottiero]

Well, I have been completely stymied and, yea, paralysed in my ability to do anything by not having answers to what the hell these SS guys are doing and whether I can just kill them.

Also not sure many people are really playing this thing anymore, and whether in those terms its worth the investment of time I had been giving it. In many ways it seems as if Russia was the main focus of a lot of people's play, so I am very grateful to those people's contributions (you know who you are)

But a world without Britain, France and it seems now Germany, Poland, Turkey etc being played becomes something of a pointless one IMHO

Best Regards
Grey Wolf


I know what you mean, I have been trying to force a german-british war in Africa but unsuccessfully. Maybe we should try to check what we have and try to do something.

Anyway would it be crazy to embark those SS to my Tumbuktu Sultanate (allied to the germans) in order to help them against the North Africans and the Lagozians... Maybe they could reach a deal with the Lithuanians to leave their country in exchange of naval transport.

[perdedor99]

Invasion of Libya, November 29 1939:

Task Force I (landing OTL Tripoli)
2 battleships (Caracciolo class)
2 heavy cruisers
4 light cruisers
16 destroyers

Task Force II(landing OTL Benghazi)
2 heavy cruisers
4 light cruisers
12 destroyers

Covering Force (located between Tunis and invasion Task Forces)
4 battleships (2 Caracciolo class, 2 Caio Duilio class)
8 light cruisers
32 destroyers

Ambush force (of Tunis)
20 subs located around Tunis

Air attack to Hispano-African fleet in Tunis
40 Br-20 Heavy bombers
52 Ba-65 Dive bombers
12 S-77 Dive bombers
80 Cr-34 fighters

X Corps (Task Force II First wave)
25th Bologna Infantry Division
21st Granatieri di Sardegna
10th Corps Artillery (regimental size)

X X Corps ( Task Force I First wave)
17th Pavia Infantry Division
27th Brescia Infantry Division
20th Corps Artillery (regimental size plus a AA Bn)
20th Corps Armor (tank battalion)
San Marino Naval Infantry Bn

V Corps (Task Force II Second Wave)
12th Sassari Infantry Division
15th Bergamo Infantry Division
5th Corps Artillery(regimental size)

X I Corps (Task Force I Second Wave)
13th Re Infantry Division
14th Isonzo Infantry Division
Bersaglieri Motorised Division
11th Corps Artillery (regimental size)


V Army Assets (Task Force I third wave)
5th Army Cavalry assets( one brigade, dismounted or in bicycles)
5th Army Artillery Assets ( 5 regiments)
5th Army AA assets(regimental size)
5th Army Engineer assets(2 regimental size)

[Condottiero]

The K.S.A. Royal army has sent Mechanized division N. 7 from Oran and the 128th Cavalry Brigade from Ouargla to the Niger Colony (British Central Africa) in order to break the blockade of tumbuktuan forces.

[Condottiero]

The K.S.A. Royal army has sent Mechanized division N. 7 from Oran and the 128th Cavalry Brigade from Ouargla to the Niger Colony (British Central Africa) in order to break the blockade of tumbuktuan forces.

They will be there in three days

[Ward]

Well, I have been completely stymied and, yea, paralysed in my ability to do anything by not having answers to what the hell these SS guys are doing and whether I can just kill them.

Also not sure many people are really playing this thing anymore, and whether in those terms its worth the investment of time I had been giving it. In many ways it seems as if Russia was the main focus of a lot of people's play, so I am very grateful to those people's contributions (you know who you are)

But a world without Britain, France and it seems now Germany, Poland, Turkey etc being played becomes something of a pointless one IMHO

Best Regards
Grey Wolf




I know what you mean we need to have playiers for those nations for the game to go on.
I would be willing to take France over if I have to .

[perdedor99]

OOC: G bone, can you moderate?

Task Force I (Tripoli)
Attackers:
Naval Forces:
2 battleships (Caracciolo class)
2 heavy cruisers
4 light cruisers
16 destroyers

Ground Forces:

First Wave:
X X Corps
17th Pavia Infantry Division
27th Brescia Infantry Division
20th Corps Artillery (regimental size plus a AA Bn)
20th Corps Armor (tank battalion)
San Marino Naval Infantry Bn

Second Wave: D+ 12 to 24 hours
X I Corps (Task Force I Second Wave)
13th Re Infantry Division
14th Isonzo Infantry Division
Bersaglieri Motorised Division
11th Corps Artillery (regimental size)

Third Wave; D+ 24 to 36 hours
V Army Assets (Task Force I third wave)
5th Army Cavalry assets( one brigade, dismounted or in bicycles)
5th Army Artillery Assets ( 5 regiments)
5th Army AA assets(regimental size)
5th Army Engineer assets(2 regimental size)


Defenders:
Lax’gozian forces
Port Tryx'poly - Six infantry Legions Two legions of Archers, One Phalanx of Calvary, and One Legion of Artillery.

Massive artillery barrage by Italian naval support to soften fortifications in the area.

[perdedor99]

OOC: G Bone, same deal.

Task Force II(Benghazi)
Attackers:

Naval Forces:
2 heavy cruisers
4 light cruisers
12 destroyers

Ground Forces:

First Wave
X Corps
25th Bologna Infantry Division
21st Granatieri di Sardegna
10th Corps Artillery (regimental size)

Second Wave: D + 12 to 24 hours
V Corps (Task Force II Second Wave)
12th Sassari Infantry Division
15th Bergamo Infantry Division
5th Corps Artillery(regimental size)

Defenders:
Lax’gozian forces:
Port Byngx'hazik - Four Infantry Legions, One Archer, One Calvary, One Artillery.

Massive artillery barrage by Italian naval support to soften fortifications in the area.

[perdedor99]

OOC: G Bone, can you moderate?

Attackers:
Ambush force (off Tunis)
20 subs located around Tunis.

Air attack to Hispano-African fleet in Tunis
40 Br-20 Heavy bombers
52 Ba-65 Dive bombers
12 S-77 Dive bombers
80 Cr-34 fighters

Defenders:
92th Anti-aircraft artillery brigade
93th Anti-aircraft artillery brigade
4 wings of Bleriot fighters (60 units)
5 wings of FIAT biplanes (50 units)
1 wing of Spitfire fighters (10 units)

one old heavy cruiser (built in France, like the Spanish Jaime I, 16000t, 20 knots, 8 305 mm guns),
five old destroyers (1200t, 34 knots, 2 102mm guns + 2 405mm torpedo launchers) ,
two non operative submarines (repaired in Oct 1939, but…; 500t, 10knots submerged, 4 450mm torpedo tubes)
10 light gunners (100t, 42 knots, 1 40mm gun, 2 405mm torpedo tubes)
aux. ships.

Most likely a couple minutes advance warning to Hispano-Africans by their airship's pickets.

[Condottiero]

The north African subs will be in high seas, except for the two old ones that are being reparied in the docks. The small ships (the PTs9 would be on patrol around the area), but as they fear he italians will do a move in the Med (the Sultanate or the Laxgoz) the destroyers and the cruiser will be in port being loaded with ammo, foor, fuel, crew... (too late I'm afraid, but there were some hard arguments in the parliament).

I forgot that I had one of the destroyers that is patroling by the Laxgozians capital and main port. I sent it some weeks ago and I completely forget about the poor guys.

[Ward]

The Republic of America Task Force 1
To Nationalist Spain

We have landed and taken the Island of Ibiza .
The 5th Armord Brigade with the 16th, 23rd Inf Divs have unloaded and taken the island.
We also have landed 4 Sqs of Aircraft Mo. 406 (48 aircraft )
This was done on the 29th of Nov. 1939

The fleet has 2 BC Dunkerque Class
1 Wasp Class CV
3 Canarias Class CA
5 Emile Bertin Class CL
20 Buenos Aires Class DD


The Republic of America Here by Recognizes the Goverment of the Republic of Spain .

[Ward]

As of Nov 30 the Task force 1 is leaving the port on the island of Ibiza it is leading with 6 DD which are faning out and useing sonar as they leave the port. then the Rest of the Fleet is leaving with 6 more DD bring up the Rear .
As soon as the Cv is out to sea it will launch 18 fighters on CAP.
As soon as 20 mins out of port they will start moving out at over 26 knots
and heading to the Alantic . Rember that the subs top speed under water is less than 10 kts .

[perdedor99]

The Government of Spain declares that the Straits of Gibraltar are closed to military traffic and enemy merchant ships and the approaches will to be mined starting December 1st 1939. That effectively close the entrance to the Mediterranean Sea for the time being until the arrival of German volunteer subs to the area. Also additional bomber, dive bombers and Torpedo planes are being moved to the area and six German volunteer units will be available on the area by the 10 of December.Our nation is under mobilization and another 40 division are being raised as we speak. Our enemeies will be defeated.

Francisco Franco
Generalissimo of Spain

[Ward]

The Government of Spain declares that the Straits of Gibraltar are closed to military traffic and enemy merchant ships and the approaches will to be mined starting December 1st 1939. That effectively close the entrance to the Mediterranean Sea for the time being until the arrival of German volunteer subs to the area. Also additional bomber, dive bombers and Torpedo planes are being moved to the area and six German volunteer units will be available on the area by the 10 of December.Our nation is under mobilization and another 40 division are being raised as we speak. Our enemeies will be defeated.

Francisco Franco
Generalissimo of Spain



the republic Task Force would be out of the Med before Dec 1 1939 .
It is less than 10 hrs steaming time at 26 kts as the Republic task force is heading out of the Med .

[Ward]

With Spain mining the Straits we really need a UK and France in the Game .
Because dose the UK still own the Rock or not in this time line.

[czarist]

ill be the uk

france is weak

[Ward]

ill be the uk

france is weak



France was not weak against nations like Italy and Spain . The french divs were kicking the Italians Ass in the battle of France even as they were being over run by Germany .

[perdedor99]

OOC: G.Bone moderate please.

Attack on Task Force One:
November 30 1939
Attackers:

11th Bomber Group (in Cadiz)(second wave)
48 MB 200 Bombers

12th Bomber Group (in Sevilla) (first wave)
48 MB 200 Bombers

23rd Fighter Squadron (in Malaga)(first wave)
24 P-26 fighters

26th Fighter Squadron (in Algeciras)(second wave)
24 D-510 fighters

61st Dive Bomber Flight (in Malaga) (first wave)
12 Hs-123

Defenders:
moving 26 knots in the direction of the Straits.
The fleet has
2 BC Dunkerque Class
1 Wasp Class CV (with a 18 planes CAP)
3 Canarias Class CA
5 Emile Bertin Class CL
20 Buenos Aires Class DD

[czarist]

the united kingdom issues ultimatum to france

we request the secession of normandy to its rightful owner. you have 24 hours to respond or we will declare war.


the united kingdom declares war on spain

we request outright access to the strait of gibralter and view your mining of the strait as encroachment on the royal navy's right to passage


anyone else want a piece, bring it.

[G.Bone]

Yes I'll moderate.

[Condottiero]

* Send two Bleriot squadrons (30 fighters) from Villa Cisneros plus one more from Oran to Tunis.
* The Tramontana airships in Villa Cisneros will be patrolling the Atlantic waters in search of any freighter leading to the Mediterranean. The "Remolino" fast ships in that base will intercept them.
* The destroyers: "Rabat", "Casablanca" and "Tanger" will look for enemy submarines in atlantic moroccan waters; "Margarita", "Tenerife" and "Gran Canaria" will cover the waters between Canary Islands and Madeira; "Haiti", "Menorca" and "Jamaica" the waters between Madeira and Açores. They will be helped by the Tramontanas and Simoun in Las Palmas and Funchal.
* The 14 submarines in Macaronesia will be sent to patrol the portuguese coast and the Gibraltar strait.

Retaliation force (Night attack over Malta airfields):
4th. wing of Simoun bombers (8 units)
1st wing of heavy Bombers (15 Saab bombers)
1st. wing of Simoun bombers (10 units)
3rd. wing of Tramontana scouts (6 units)
(each airship carries two FIAT biplanes)

There will be two waves as it will be extremely difficult to coordinate the attack of the airships and the conventional bombers. the interval will be up to the moderator, but the idea is that they attack at the same time.

:rolleyes:
Just a wish

By the way, what's happening in Lybia?

[perdedor99]

Night of November 29th 1939

6th Pursuit Squadron
23 Cr-34 fighters

Malta AA detachment
10 90mm AA
20 AA Hvy MG

A 3 plane CAP on duty

[Ward]

OOC: G.Bone moderate please.

Attack on Task Force One:
November 30 1939
Attackers:

11th Bomber Group (in Cadiz)(second wave)
48 MB 200 Bombers

12th Bomber Group (in Sevilla) (first wave)
48 MB 200 Bombers

23rd Fighter Squadron (in Malaga)(first wave)
24 P-26 fighters

26th Fighter Squadron (in Algeciras)(second wave)
24 D-510 fighters

61st Dive Bomber Flight (in Malaga) (first wave)
12 Hs-123

Defenders:
moving 26 knots in the direction of the Straits.
The fleet has
2 BC Dunkerque Class
1 Wasp Class CV (with a 18 planes CAP)
3 Canarias Class CA
5 Emile Bertin Class CL
20 Buenos Aires Class DD



The Republic wil have 36 Mo 406 fighters up to meet the waves these will be be from the flight deck from the Wasp .

[czarist]

the 24 hour window granted for a reply to the ultimatum issued yesterday by the united kingdom to the republic of france has passed.

we now declare a state of war to exist between the united kingdom and the french republic.

[Ward]

Yes I'll moderate.


Are you doing all the battles

[General_Paul]

To: Nations of Great Britain, and Republic of France
From: Gunther Weiss, chancellor, Weirmar Republic


Subject: War


Dear Sirs,

We believe that it would be in both of your best interests to cease and desist ALL hostilities concerning the province of NORMANDY. To the British, I say, this is a new world, not yours, not ours, a new world. And in accordance, Normandy is owned by the FRENCH, not you, so please back down from this. To France, I say: Do not launch any invasion of Britain, it will only cost more lives than it should cost. Please, I beg the two of you, calm your nerves. I already am having to mediate one problem in the medeterranian, and the rest of europe does not want to have to be broken into war over this. thank you for your consideration.

Gunther Weiss
Chancellor
Weirmar Republic

[czarist]

we refuse to desist. france was offered an easy peace by simply granting us full rights to territory that has been ours since the days of william the conqueror. france has occupied normandy far too long as we wish to liberate this province from their gallic oppressors.

[General_Paul]

To: United Kingdom
From: Gunther Weiss, chancellor, Weirmar Republic


Dear Sir,


In that case, we whole HEARTEDLY throw our support into the ring WITH FRANCE. Gott mit und Germany. In our world, there was this great thing called the NORMAN CONQUEST, where the french invaded, and took Great Britain over, good luck, maybe god WILL be with the british...or maybe not.


Gunther Weiss
Chancellor
Weirmar Republic

[czarist]

i warn you you will bear the full brunt of the combined might of the united kingdom and the republic of america. i can only advise you to retract this declaration as this matter in no way concerns you. our territorial ambitions on the continent are limited to normandy and the demilitarization of the strait of gibralter. we extend to you a sincere offer of peace but if it is retracted we must all face the consequences of a grave continental war.

[Condottiero]

There are too many subs in K.S.A. waters, the Royal Navy is going to do some cleaning...


Attackers:
From Ceuta:
2nd wing of Autogyro Naval patrols (10 units, two depth charges)
3 wings of FIAT biplanes (30 units, escorting units, they will act on request from Ceuta, 5 min to half an hour delay)
1st Wing of Naval bombers (12 Hispano-Suiza bombers, equipped with depth charges and two torpedoes)
2nd. wing of Simoun bombers (Naval version, carrying depth charges and a primitive version of sonobuoys, so they'll have to fly very low) (10 units + 2 FIAT biplanes each)
2nd. wing of Tramontana scouts (7 units, escorting units + 2 FIAT biplanes each)

From Funchal:
1 Hispano-Suiza IS-11p heavy fighters (equipped with 4 12.7 mm MG and 2 40 mm guns, 473 km/h + long range) sq (12 planes, escorting units)

Defenders:
Unknown number of italian (?) and spanish submarines (I think the spanish airforces are a bit busy now ;-) )


Could someone moderate this?

[czarist]

where the **** are those ships concentrating i can activate some of mine if you need it

we need to flush these b****** out of the sea and into the pits of hell

[G.Bone]

1. Where is the KSA? Does anyone have a map of this?

2. Absence of profanity is a plus. Also 'sensible' moves and not yanking "SUPER DESTROYER XXX" that was not listed in the previous stated stats. (Oh and please make it sensible as possible)

3. So there are three players in this battle- czarist, Condottiero, and General_Paul?

[Condottiero]

KSA is the Kingdom of Spanish Africa (I have regretted chosing that name instead of New Carthage or Tunisia or...), there is a map in the Middle-East and Africa posting of countries, but roughly spans over OTL Morocco, Northern Algeria, Tunis, Sahara and an small part of Lybia.

I have also a thread about the Royal Army of the Kingdom of Spanish Africa in which I describe most of my ships, airplanes, airships and tanks...

Anyway if you need more information, I would gladly give it to you. Although I have not an exact idea of the amount and nationality of submarines in those waters...

[czarist]

gbone how do i activate my royal mediterranean fleet.

i am having trouble locating an order of battle.
ward told me my mediterranean fleet has the BC Hood , CV Ark Royal,
2 x Southampton Class Cl and about 15 DD and maybe ten Subs .

[G.Bone]

gbone how do i activate my royal mediterranean fleet

:confused: :confused:

Um...all you do is sort of write it being "active" and that's it.

[czarist]

well it's active then god dammit lets get this show on the road

[DuQuense]

Your Med Fleet would be what ever You write about sending to the Med after the event, and remember they have to come from your Home fleet, No ships more than 100 miles from Britians Shoreline were ISOTed.

[Condottiero]

Does anyone know what the situation in Gibraltar is? I have assumed that the Spanish took it in their time line, but...

[czarist]

would you believe that the rock is no longer in my possession. i am incredulous i must say old bean.

[czarist]

the united kingdom sends to the mediterranean

5 Queen Elizabeth Class BB
2 cv
10 CA
10 Cl
30 DD

ward if i messed up there tell me.

[DuQuense]

Czarist-- I sugest sending a few mine sweepers with your fleet, the great Pillars of Hercules has been Mined.

[czarist]

yes i know...unfortunately i dont know how many i have.

we will probably need quite a few too.

[czarist]

or do we just get to type in however many we want for minor equipment like minesweepers.

if so i deploy 6 mse with the main med. battle fleet.

[Grey Wolf]

I've given you answers in terms of NUMBERS on the thread you started in Chat - I suspect someone else here is more knowledgeable in which ships they are. Obviously they would include those we know are sunk historically in this time period (Courageous, Royal Oak)

As for minesweepers, at the simplest level you can stick a trawl behind a trawler, give it buffers etc. You'll suffer more losses than if you use properly outfitted minesweepers but you won't ever run out of potential conversions

Grey Wolf

[Grey Wolf]

the united kingdom sends to the mediterranean

5 Queen Elizabeth Class BB
2 cv
10 CA
10 Cl
30 DD

ward if i messed up there tell me.

I don't think you have all 5 Queen Elizabeths in home waters, but I don't know for sure

But my investigations suggest you have 21 cruisers TOTAL in home waters - if you send 20 of them to the Med, you leave ONE in home waters !!!

Grey Wolf

[czarist]

we are the BRITISH ROYAL NAVY, SIR. we need not resort to such petty tactics...

i have ordered a wartime economy and we are laying keels for 4 new aircraft carriers, 3 battleships and 6 heavy battle cruisers all to be completed by 1942. i dont give a fuck if my people starve to death we are getting this done.

also theres gonna be a SHITLOAD of spitfires cming frances way in a few days...if need be were going to strafe paris w/ machine guns until i figure out what our bombers are..we dont have lancasters yet

[czarist]

fine then...3 BB 5 CA 5CL

i am prepared to designate ward the supreme commander of allied forces (i am going to come up w/ a name later)...but the ksa will have to agree and we'll need to sign a treaty b/w the three of us

[Grey Wolf]

Czarist, who on Earth is your government ?

I'm assuming you've spent September, October and half of November having some kind of civil war, coup and the emergence maybe of Oswald Mosley as Leader ?

Nothing else makes sense

Its certainly not a Neville Chamberlain's Britain, and most affirmedly not Attlee or Simon. As for other Conservatives, Churchill may be an adventurer but not this, and it doesn't suit Halifax or even Eden

That leaves the British Union I am thinking, perhaps with a cliche of right wing Tories such as Vansittart or the Duke of Westminster (or was it Wellington, sheesh I always get those two muddled up)

Grey Wolf

btw I think ex Edward VIII was abroad on Sep 1st 1939 so you can't have him as king. If you depose George VI then his brother, the Duke of Kent might make a suitable hothead as George VII

[czarist]

we have shot the house of commons and burned the parliament

[Ward]

the united kingdom sends to the mediterranean

5 Queen Elizabeth Class BB
2 cv
10 CA
10 Cl
30 DD

ward if i messed up there tell me.


He will also send 20 mine sweepers and 2 mine Destructor ships to use against magnetic mines
I will write up the Class of ships he has there later today if the phone lets me . it's been ringing all day and off I go .

[Grey Wolf]

we have shot the house of commons and burned the parliament

Who have ?

Is this some type of military coup ? Who's mad enough and egotistical enough to do it ?

Grey Wolf

[Ward]

I don't think you have all 5 Queen Elizabeths in home waters, but I don't know for sure

But my investigations suggest you have 21 cruisers TOTAL in home waters - if you send 20 of them to the Med, you leave ONE in home waters !!!

Grey Wolf


My sorces state he has some were around 60 CA and CL at this time and maby 20 are over seas .
I gave him the Queens instead of mixing them with the R class
He still has the nelson and Rodney there also . The kG class is still building give some time to check were his whole fleet is at this time . Also rember there is some give and take and a stronger British navy could of been built just a few years earlier . Let us say he is 1 year ealier on his builds I will then list the Br Fleet for him and its deployment as of 1 Sept 1939 latter this week .

[Ward]

we are the BRITISH ROYAL NAVY, SIR. we need not resort to such petty tactics...

i have ordered a wartime economy and we are laying keels for 4 new aircraft carriers, 3 battleships and 6 heavy battle cruisers all to be completed by 1942. i dont give a fuck if my people starve to death we are getting this done.

also theres gonna be a SHITLOAD of spitfires cming frances way in a few days...if need be were going to strafe paris w/ machine guns until i figure out what our bombers are..we dont have lancasters yet


He has the British Fleet build of 1933- 1946 as his standered build for the British navy . Using the Conways All the Worlds Fighting ships 1922-1946 and the Conways All the Worlds Fighting ships 1947-1982 , Plus he is one year ealy in there building .

[Grey Wolf]

Oh, why did he ask for details of the OTL RN deployments if he wasn't going to use them ? I spent half an hour Googling for him, AND he was pretty insulting

Teaches me a lesson, I guess

Grey Wolf

[czarist]

ok well im sorry gw that was nice of you.

but im going to use wards numbers because i like them better. so my original deployment stands.

5 Queen Elizabeth Class BB
2 cv
10 CA
10 Cl
30 DD
6 mse

[General_Paul]

December 2, 1939, 1400 hrs. Grenwich Mean time: Airspace over London


"Hey sam, what do you suppose that formation is, up there, the large black one. It surely can't be any of OUR aircraft, and the french certainly haven't sent anything over our way in the time that we've been at war..." Charlie Shaunesy said. "Charlie, that's just a flock of birds, just don't look up into the sky, and we'll be fine!" Sam Higgins said. The streets of london were uncharacterestically abandoned this day, not a living soul was seen out on the streets, most cars were parked, and not running, even the double decker busses were running on a late schedule.

However, there was reason for the skies to be completely void of anyone in the streets. The large formation, flying above, was a formation of HE111, JU88, JU87 Stuka divebombers, and ME109 escort fighters. The bombers were lined up, in a bombing formation. The bombers quietly opened their bombay doors, and let the bombs drop on radar instillations all around london, and around the Cliffs of dover and on airfields all around london, and the Dover area.

[General_Paul]

Oh suck it up and take the loss! I was going after radar and airfields, NOT london...dweeb. SO suck it up, you lost radar sights along the white cliffs of dover, and airfields to boot.

[General_Paul]

I am not going to use the english language like a club, like you use it as. But, I can read history, and I am presuming that because its only three months in, your radar are in the exact same places as they were OTL. So, German intel from Pre-war, around July and August are still gonna be prevalent.

[DuQuense]

IIRC in 1939 Britian was still using the Wire style radar, [Inefficent] and german intell had overlooked the instalations, so it sounds like a draw to me

[G.Bone]

Okay...czarist....take your losses. I do not like your profanity and your posts in chat really offend me. Please construct a logical and sensible timeline of past and present activities so that people can make sense as well as being kind to GW for providing the data because your behavior will not get you friends.

[Ward]

Air Strike on the Spanish City of Malaga
The Republic of America lunched an Air strike on Dec .25 1939
The Strike is made up of 76 Whirlwinds Fighters ,160 x D.520 fighters and 180 Leo 451 bombers . The strike is on the port and on and is taking place at 07:00 hrs . Half of the bombs fall on the City in residental areas were over 40% of the houses there are destroied . A major Church in the city was full of people going to Christmas Mass was destroied .

The Fighters shot down the Bf-109b of the Spanish airforce and then strafes there bases going after the Hangors and fuel dumps .


Yes this is a terrior bombing of the city .


Also as of 08:30 hrs Dec. 25.1939 the Republic's Task Force 1 moves off the port and starts shelling the City and port .
They will spend 45 mins shelling the city and port .And then send in cutters to raid the city burning and loating the city . The troops leave the city after about 2 hr with all that they can carry .

[General_Paul]

December 26, 1939: Berlin, Germany (Weirmar Republic)


"...So you're telling me that they SACKED the city?" Gunther Weiss sat stairing out the window, with a shocked look sitting on his face. "Yes sir, they sacked Malaga, our subs were out on convoy raids during the time that the city was sacked, so no intel waxs capture, thank god..." The advisor set out a map for the chancellor to glance at. "Now, we can reinforce our positions along the french border, but there's no reason, the french and the british are in the midst of an air battle of sorts for control of the skies over the channel, much like what Goerig was planning for england in our world."

Gunther slammed his hand down on the table. "Not good enough William, not near good enough. I want us to hit them back. For christ's sake, the america that WE know wouldn't go to such lengths to terror bomb cities, rape the women, burn the businesses, and overall pillage and plunder. This is like the sacking of byzantium during the first crusades. Its downright horrible... I know history, and this IS like the crusades for them. These americans are unreasonable, they terror bombed Malaga, and sacked it, now if this is civilized behavior, then I'll be sure to go and begin speaking caveman..."

Gunther chuckled at this comment. "Find that convoy of vessels going back into the medeterranian, sink them on sight. Leave no ship afloat, if they want their gold back, they'll have to hire divers to get it..."


December 27, 1939: Medeterranian Sea, 0130 hrs

U-21: 30 feet below the surface in Wolf Pack 079 (Oh' seven niner')


"Contact with Republic of America Task Force 1, one aircraft carrier, cutters, destroyers, battleships, and troop transports, what do we target first?" The captain thought for a second. "Target the Aircraft carrier first, I don't want to make the same mistake that we did the first time around. I've got them lined up, flood tubes one through four..." A distant "Tubes one through four flooded" was heard. "On my mark, fire...steady...steady...steady...FIRE!" He dropped his hand in a cutting motion to fire the torpedo's. The missiles spewed forth from their bays, and sped forward towards their target. For tense seconds, no one said a word, knowing if this failed, it could mean their deaths. Suddenly, the captain slammed back the hand bars and yelled out. "Arm and flood tubes!" The crew jumped into high gear, knowing they had a direct hit. For five minutes, the crew loaded torpedo bays, and prepped for an attack that never came. The wolf pack had done their job.

Fifteen minutes later

U-21 surfaced in the inky blackness of the winter nights of the medeterranian sea, with the crew extatic. The aircraft carrier lay at the bottom of the Medeterranian Sea, the troop transports were afire, and sinking, and the cutters had foundered, along with the destroyers. The captain took one quick look around and yelled out, "Everyone, get the deck gun ready. These bastards have no heart, why should we?" The crew nodded, and got the gun ready. "Alright, arm, and on my mark, aim amid ship." The crew did as they were told. "FIRE!" Many of the other wolf pack subs did just that, and destroyed the rest of the still afloat ships, packed up their deck guns, and silently slipped below the waves, to wait for their next prey..."


Gunther Weiss
Chancellor
Weirmar Republic

[Condottiero]

Are we moderating our own attacks?

:(

The next time someone attacks one of the coutries or moves nearby my african region I would like to be addressed first...

:rolleyes:

[Condottiero]

December 27, 1939: Medeterranian Sea, 0155 hrs (Oran Time)

Major Alfonso Moreno had received the transmission from the American fleet. It had been very unfortunate that they had moved outside the port of Oran as long as the cleaning of hostile submarines had not been performed. As coordinator of the operation from Ceuta's harbor he ordered the Airships and the wing of Autogyros in Ceuta to move to the last reported position of the american ships. They were basically three tramontanas, eight Simouns equipped with sonobuoys and twelve autogyros with depth charges covered by four squadrons of Bleriot and FIAT fighters.

Contact with the enemy submarines was established one hour later. It was incredible that they were still in the surface hunting the remainings of the american fleet. The losses were considerable. Major Moreno ordered to procceed without mercy.

The first wave of the attack was devastating for the enemy subs, later identified as german ones. In fact, one of the Tramontana captains described later how they managed to hunt one submarine with their 80 mm gun, this has been the first reported incident in which one Tramontana had sunk one submarine. The Simoun bombers used their fighters and torpedoes in the first wave. Unfortunately the enemy submarines equipped with some antiaircraft guns managed to destroy one of the Simoun bombers and three fighters before diving. By then six submarines had been destroyed or severely damaged.

During the next hour both the remaining Simoun bombers and the autogyros launched almost two hundred depth charges damaging an undetermined number of submarines, that had been estimated attending to the crewman declarations between ten and fifteen, being the most probable number the first one.

Unfortunately the hunt had to be interrupted when some Bf-109 spanish fighters arrived. Four more Bleriot figthers were lost from the aircover, but the remaining airships and autogyros retired in good order to the Melilla coast.


******

Operation Squid hunter:

Enemy submarines destroyed 16-21 (most probable number 16)
One Bf-109 fighter destroyed

K.S.A. loses:
One Simoun airship
three FIAT biplanes
four Bleriot fighters

[Ward]

Are we moderating our own attacks?

:(

The next time someone attacks one of the coutries or moves nearby my african region I would like to be addressed first...

:rolleyes:






I was hoping that the spanish playier would state who he wanted me to send my battle orders to PM . So we could have the real battle report .

[DuQuense]

PM- Ward with the naval Battle numbers, He has a computor program he will run them thru.

For other battles PM- Gbone and see if he will act as Mod.

[Ward]

PM- Ward with the naval Battle numbers, He has a computor program he will run them thru.

For other battles PM- Gbone and see if he will act as Mod.



General Paul your subs are the normal Subs of the Germans from 1939 right . that is type VIIb class at his time . and how many do you have there in the med . Also is the Spanish Fleet what it had in 1939 .

[perdedor99]

Is the combined Republican and Nationalist fleets of OTL without the casualties from the Civil War. ITTL the initial attempted coup by the military was a success. That's the reason of many French planes in the TTL. But a lot of german planes are on the way.

[perdedor99]

Spanish Naval Forces

Cartagena Naval Station
DD Almirante Ferrandiz (1)
DD Barcaiztegui (1)
DD Alcala Galiano (1)
DD Almirante Valdes (1)
DD Churruca (1)
DD Jose Luis Diaz (1)
DD Lepanto (1)
DD Miranda (2)
DD Lazaga (3)
DD Alsedo (3)
12 smaller units
4 submarines

Cadiz Naval Station
DD Gravina (2)
DD Escaño (2)
DD Ulloa (2)
DD Jorge Juan (2)
DD Ciscar (2)
8 submarines
CL Navarra (6)
CL Mendez Nuñez (5)

El Ferrol Naval Station
BB España (7)
BB Jaime I (7)
CL Principe Alfonso(4)
CL Miguel de Cervantes (4)
CL Almirante Cervera (4)
DD Velasco (3)
DD Almirante Antequera (2)
CA Canarias
CA Baleares
8 small units



(1) Churruca Class (First Group)destroyers; maximum speed 36 knots, four 4.7 inches single gun turrets(2 forward, 2 aft).

(2) Churruca Class(Second Group)destroyers; maximum speed 36 knots, four 4.7 inches single gun turrets(2 forward, 2 aft).

(3) Alsedo Class destroyers; maximum speed 34 knots, three 4 inches single gun turrets(2 forward, one aft).

(4) Cervera Class Cruisers; maximum speed 34 knots, eight 6 inches dual gun turrets(2 forward, 2aft).

(5) Mendez Nuñez Class Cruisers; maximum speed 29 knots, six 6 inches gun turrets(2 dual gun forward, 2 single gun aft).

(6) Navarra Class Cruisers; maximum speed 25 knots, six 6 inches single gun turrets(2 forward, 2 centerline, 2 aft).

(7) España Class Battleships; maximum speed 20 knots, eight 12 inches dual gun turrets(2 forward, 2 aft).

[Condottiero]

The España class battleships were in decommisioning process, in fact both the España and the Jaime I were put back into service without the big guns, mounting only 101 mm guns.

There is info in: http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/acoraza.htm (it's in spanish, but I have not found information in english).

[Condottiero]

The heavy bombers approached the island of Malta. Paco de la Hoz woried as there were no signs of the airships, they were too late. He saw the commander thinking whether to launch the attack immediately or waiting for the Simouns. With one sign of his hand he ordered the co-pilot to approach the main target. A couple of italian fighters appeared from nowhere and the fire of the hell was unleased over the maltese night sky. The enemy fighters on duty detected them and attacked, the heavy machineguns of the bombers kept them at distance but soon the anti-air lights and guns in the islands started to look for them.

A huge explosion to their left showed that BS-11 would not do it. Paco started to pray, but he doubted the Virgin would hear him that night.

****

Captain Peña saw the flash of the anti-aircraft fire: the heavy bombers had arrived before them. They had feared that possibility, coordination between the airships and the bombers was something that should be improved. But they had now something else to worry: the Militar Intelligence claimed that the italians had no airplanes capable of climbing up to ten thousand meters, they were going to verify it.

The good news that they were going to have easier targets, with the airfileds lit like the fires in the night of St. John it would be a child's job to hit them. The bad news were that there was not very much to hit. Anyway they prepared to launch their deadly load, when he gave the order to release the bombs he could hear one of the communications officers betting with the navigation assistant about the italian fighters. It was a silly bet: if they were able to reach them they would probably be shot down.

*****

Outcome of the attack:

K.S.A. needs to coordinate better their air attacks:

* The Saab bombers hit first. They hit the main airfield destroying seven fighters in one hangar and retreat after losing two planes against the aa fire and two more for the CAP fighters.

* Then the airships arrive, but the bombardment is quite ineffective as most of the fighters are already on flight. The italians receive damages in the installations and two more planes are destroyed in one hangar.

Italy needs more high altitude airplanes:

* Only one of the airships could be reached due to some problems in it, six FIAT biplanes trying to help the airship were destroyed by the italians losing four fighters in the combat.

[Tyr]

All of the imaginary British troops have vanished leaving those who were witness to them with a bad head and breath that stinks of gin.

[Condottiero]

It's a pity my tumbuktuans were going to battle them. This is being very frustrating to them. I wanted to head them to the south in order to receive reinforcements by some germans that disappeared, then they tried to fight back a british invassion that has also disappeared. Maybe they should try a civil war and then disappear!!!