David S Poepoe
August 20th, 2004, 04:23 PM
I very recently received a copy of Dreadnoughts: A Great War at Sea Scenario Book from Avalanche Press. The book centers about the great dreadnought Rio de Janeiro AKA HMS Agincourt and the very interesting topic of capital ship sales by Minor Powers to Great Powers. The writers at Avalanch Press (AP) seem to have deduced that when the Brazilians placed the Rio up for sale that there were several powers interested in acquiring it.
When I first opened the book and looked at the enclosed ship counters I couldn't figure out why Agincourt appeared under so many different names. I couldn't believe that every nation wanted some seven turreted monster. While I haven't finished reading the whole book, there are two large articles about Ottoman naval aspirations and a new navy for Spain, as well as an entry on late war warship designs by the Austrians. It does appear that at some time between 1911-1919 all seven Latin American warships were up for sale.
Possible buyers for Rio de Janeiro, aside from the Ottomans:
Russia - to keep it out of Ottoman hands and get a dreadnought quickly. Construction on their own ships at home were taking too long. Lost out probably because of bad relations between the Russian Admiralty and British shipyards.
Also it appears that Russia did make an attempt to purchase Brazil's two older dreadnoughts - Minas Gerais and Sao Paulo and probably even Argentina's two dreadnoughts - Rivadavia and Moreno. They also placed bids for Chile's two uncompleted dreadnoughts - Almirante Loatorre and Almirante Cochrane.
Greece - Panicked by Ottoman purchase they also appeared to have wanted to bid on Rio de Janeiro. Lost out because of they couldn't secure loans from Paris banks. The Greeks also wanted to purchase two old French predreadnoughts, but got nowhere. The Greeks were shown the plans for the Kongo and were offered a similar battlecruiser, but balked at the price. They offered to purchase HMS Valiant, but the British turned them down.
Italy - From AP it appears that rivalry between Italian shipyards was the source of the Italian bid for Rio de Janeiro. It also looks that once the Turks bought the Rio the Italians approached them about exchanging the dreadnought for two Pisa-class armored cruisers. The Italians also appear to have received the go ahead to place a bid for the two Argentinian but nothing came of it either both or during the Great War.
France - The French Admiralty didn't appear to trust or like the Greeks and it order to keep the Italians from acquiring the Rio de Janeiro it.
Austro-Hungary - Advised by their Admiralty to consider buy it to keep it out of Italian or Russian hands.
Japan - Probably more an AP scenario but the Japanese probably would have been possible buyers if the other deals had struck out. They also did have a history of buying ships from Britain and British shipyards (Armstrong may approach them), commercial ties with Brazil and were just coming to an awareness that their rival in the Pacific would be the United States.
Spain - Some admirals contemplated placing a bid for the Rio.
Romania - In 1920 representatives went to Britain to buy warships and did contemplate buy the Agincourt.
Germany - An interesting twist this one, which really depends on the hand off. Basically it runs, that the Turks didn't know if they could get their warships back to Turkey as the international situation deteriorated in June and July of 1914. They had plans that should they get both the Sultan Osman I (Agincourt) and Reshadieh (Erin) out to the high seas they will sail them to Germany. There they would be incorporated into the High Seas Fleet.
With enough money, and good relations, it appears that many countries could have had instant navies.
When I first opened the book and looked at the enclosed ship counters I couldn't figure out why Agincourt appeared under so many different names. I couldn't believe that every nation wanted some seven turreted monster. While I haven't finished reading the whole book, there are two large articles about Ottoman naval aspirations and a new navy for Spain, as well as an entry on late war warship designs by the Austrians. It does appear that at some time between 1911-1919 all seven Latin American warships were up for sale.
Possible buyers for Rio de Janeiro, aside from the Ottomans:
Russia - to keep it out of Ottoman hands and get a dreadnought quickly. Construction on their own ships at home were taking too long. Lost out probably because of bad relations between the Russian Admiralty and British shipyards.
Also it appears that Russia did make an attempt to purchase Brazil's two older dreadnoughts - Minas Gerais and Sao Paulo and probably even Argentina's two dreadnoughts - Rivadavia and Moreno. They also placed bids for Chile's two uncompleted dreadnoughts - Almirante Loatorre and Almirante Cochrane.
Greece - Panicked by Ottoman purchase they also appeared to have wanted to bid on Rio de Janeiro. Lost out because of they couldn't secure loans from Paris banks. The Greeks also wanted to purchase two old French predreadnoughts, but got nowhere. The Greeks were shown the plans for the Kongo and were offered a similar battlecruiser, but balked at the price. They offered to purchase HMS Valiant, but the British turned them down.
Italy - From AP it appears that rivalry between Italian shipyards was the source of the Italian bid for Rio de Janeiro. It also looks that once the Turks bought the Rio the Italians approached them about exchanging the dreadnought for two Pisa-class armored cruisers. The Italians also appear to have received the go ahead to place a bid for the two Argentinian but nothing came of it either both or during the Great War.
France - The French Admiralty didn't appear to trust or like the Greeks and it order to keep the Italians from acquiring the Rio de Janeiro it.
Austro-Hungary - Advised by their Admiralty to consider buy it to keep it out of Italian or Russian hands.
Japan - Probably more an AP scenario but the Japanese probably would have been possible buyers if the other deals had struck out. They also did have a history of buying ships from Britain and British shipyards (Armstrong may approach them), commercial ties with Brazil and were just coming to an awareness that their rival in the Pacific would be the United States.
Spain - Some admirals contemplated placing a bid for the Rio.
Romania - In 1920 representatives went to Britain to buy warships and did contemplate buy the Agincourt.
Germany - An interesting twist this one, which really depends on the hand off. Basically it runs, that the Turks didn't know if they could get their warships back to Turkey as the international situation deteriorated in June and July of 1914. They had plans that should they get both the Sultan Osman I (Agincourt) and Reshadieh (Erin) out to the high seas they will sail them to Germany. There they would be incorporated into the High Seas Fleet.
With enough money, and good relations, it appears that many countries could have had instant navies.