(E.I. Game) Erm, DGNT, yeah, well, no.

[Mexico]

1858
The Russian navy launches its first steel-clad gunship, the Opyt.

Program of retiring all-wood ships begins, most are sold to other countries. They to be replaced with ironclad warships. Yeah, I'm going to have to voice dissent on this one.
Firstly, I doubt you have the money to begin such a program.
Secondly, with the freeing of the serfs, I doubt your nobles will allow you to tax them more without a rebellion.
Thirdly, Russia's technology is not to this point yet. France and Britain combined, during a time of war, and finished an iron-plated warship in 1855. Yes, just one (although the British finished one a bit later, too late to get involved in the war though). During a time in which all industry was going towards the war effort. And only after the collective knowledge of agruably the two most advanced nations on earth was used could this design be created. Russia isn't completely backwards, but this a just a touch early to be building ironclads, don't you think?
La Gloire wasn't launched until 1859, which was the first ocean-going ironclad on earth. Now, I assume for sure you aren't saying this Opyt is ocean-going, but I would hope you realize it is only plated with steel, not made of it. Even the French couldn't afford a full metal ship in 1859.
Historically, the Opyt wasn't finished until 1862, and I find this to be a much better time for Russia to build its first steel-plated ship. I would even be ok with 1860. But '58 is just way too early, especially with the economic hardships you should already be incurring with the cost of this war, the new breechloaders, etc.

[DGNT]

*yawn*
1. Its not like it costs a lot to retire ships and gradually replace them. I didnt say it was compleated in a year.

2. See above.

The Opyt was built in 1861 historically, starting it a year early is hardly going to destroy history.
And iron-plated ships were becoming more and more common towards the end of the decade. Russia is not exactly iron-poor, you know? They have these mountains, theyre called the Urals. Theyre full of stuff people call 'metal' :P

[Fatstalin]

Wow, the RP has just got off the ground and you guys are already at it again. Big surprise...

[DGNT]

I started nothing! >_>

[Muse_Of_History]

He started it!

:D

[Agentdark]

Sorry, but Mexico is completly right in this case.

[General_Paul]

Sorry, but Mexico is completly right in this case.

I as well am going to have to go with Mexico's opinion on this one. Ironclad warships were increadibly expensive to build and maintain, and your engineering has to be above top knotch just to design and build the things. Even the Union Monitors, and Confederate CSS Virginia took time to put together. The CSS Virginia took a year just to put all the iron plates on her hull and prep her for battle. I can't really say anything about the USS Monitor, considering it was 4 months from the keel being laid down to its commissioning, but that was US industry for you. I don't know what kind of productivity would be expected of Russian industry at the time, or if it has the same kind of ready access to iron ore and iron smelting that the US did in the 1860's, but I don't think you can knock together a CSS Virginia, or USS Monitor in 1859, needless to say something along the lines of HMS Warrior or La Glorie, without severely straining your industry and dumping hundreds of thousands of rubles into this ship which has yet to be proven in battle, but we'll see just how effective it will be in a few months I presume.

Long story short, even if you put together an Ironclad warship, in three years it'll be as obsolete as the Nina, Pinta, or Santa Maria in comparison to Napoleonic Era warships, thanks to the looming US Civil War and the expected technological advancements in naval warfare to come. I think that most countries, especially countries like Russia, Great Britain, or France, will be looking to the United States in upcoming years to see just what will happen when two industrialized, modern powers really go head to head. (Sharpsburg, Fredericksburg, Memphis, and Gettysburg anyone?)

[DGNT]

As I said above:
Im STARTING to build a steam-powered ironclad a year early. I seriously doubt its going to ruin history as we know it.
Most people were gradually replacing their wooden ships post Crimean War, because they had finally figured out that Paxhian guns were going to shred anything that didnt have some kind of plate armour on it.

[Risban]

I am actually going to, for once, agree with DGNT on this. It is not unfeasable for Russia to begin production a year early. Yes, it's expensive, and there will be repurcussions (as in not being able to pay for new technology and such elsewhere for the time being), but it isn't too unrealistic. Note, however, that the chance of Russia creating a steam-powered ironclad worthy on the high seas is impossible, as even the more navally-industrious powers had difficult times doing that (Britain, the US, and France all had ships sink, and the US ran into considerable problems with their new ships being destroyed in little storms). So, bear in mind that the new ships will, for now, have to stick to not getting too far away from coastlines and would do best in rivers and bays until a few years later. Also factor in, like the US and others had, problems with a storm sinking one of the nifty new ship prototypes (when they're completed) every now and then.
Other people should bear in mind that the only thing DGNT is creating right now is a prototype; neither he nor anyone else would have a fully-operatable steam-powered iron fleet at this moment. Give it a few years. ;)

Also bear in mind that the fact that Russia is currently building these new ships would spark Britain and France, particularly, to begin research. The United States would not begin research, as the USA doesn't really see any need for a large army until the Civil War starts (at which point everyone else is like "Wtf? How do they have so many good stuff?"). Some of Russia's Baltic opponents may look into beginning to research this as well. Germanic states, Italy, Spain, and Portugal may get interested in this, but they probably won't dig into it at all until the more sea-focused nations come up with some better plans (shocking to all, Italy was one of the first Mediterranean nations, after France, to adopt the Ironclad). And, of course, nations like the Ottoman Empire, China, Central and Southern American countries, and Japan won't be doing much of anything with this technology just yet, because they lack the funding, resources, and need to do it.

[Mexico]

*yawn*
1. Its not like it costs a lot to retire ships and gradually replace them. I didnt say it was compleated in a year. No, but you made it sound like you were beginning a massive rebuilding project. Apologies for the mistranslation.

The Opyt was built in 1861 historically, starting it a year early is hardly going to destroy history. And you built it in 1858. If my math is right (61-58...oh gosh, better bring out the calculator for this one...) that is THREE years, not 1. If you'd like, we can move the whole world up three years.
Yes, starting the construction of an iron fleet three years early may very well destroy history.

And iron-plated ships were becoming more and more common towards the end of the decade. Russia is not exactly iron-poor, you know? They have these mountains, theyre called the Urals. Theyre full of stuff people call 'metal' :P Africa is full of resources too, that doesn't make them rich or technologically advanced. I'm a touch more concerned with the engineers, builders, planners, scientists, etc that go into building these than whether or not Russia has the metal to make one ship *eye roll*


I question your ability to fund such a project so early and your ability to even have the project at that time. If you want to start building it now, 1860, and finish in '61, I would have no issue with that. Heck, if you want to start in 1859 and finish in 1860, go for it. But you certainly aren't finishing in 1858.

I don't know what kind of productivity would be expected of Russian industry at the time Not very good. The industry sector in the Russian economy is still VERY small and will continue to be a very junior partner to agriculture until the serfs actually get out of serfdom.