Japense, but no Nazi victory

[Agentdark]

How could you get this to Happen, the Nazis are still defeated, but the Japanese are able to hold on to part or all of their empire.

[rowmaster]

They Realize that If they control the Chinese Coast, Hong Kong, and Indochina they dont need to take the Philipenes and Dont go to war with the US. They Seize the DEI, and British Territories, and wait till 1946 to Diplomaticly take the Philipenes.

Eventually (1942? 43?) the US Enters the European War. German Sabotoge? or just enough U-Boat Attacks on Navy Ships that they decide to go to war. But the American People dont want to fight a war that dosent envolve them and thus the US stays out of the Pacific. The US puts pressure on its Euro allies who allow Japan to control large areas (DEI, HK, Malaya, FIC) of Asia as "Mandates"

[MacCaulay]

WWII goes as planned on the European front, but lightning strikes the Trinity test site and disables one of the atom bombs. (Act of God, you can't blame me for ASBing it!)

With only one bomb in it's arsenal, the US decides not use it since there's no more up it's sleeve. Truman orders operation Olympic.
The US invasion fleet is hit by a typhoon in October, while final preparations are beginning. The Cold War starts setting in in Europe, and the Allies (the NATO countries) decide they're not going to let this spread to Japan. A battlegroup of British Pacific Fleet carriers, along with HMCS Bonaventure and HMCS Warrior from the Canadian portion of the Commonwealth Fleet are dispatched to Northern Hokkaido to keep the Soviets on the mainland.

In December 1945, the Allies launch Operation Olympic against Kyushu, landing 14 divisions across a fifty-five mile arc. The US cruiser Alaska is heavily damaged by Okas, as well as four US escort and one US fleet carrier, whose wooden decks are splintered and hammered by the massed Kamikazes. USS Saratoga is nailed by not one, but TWO Kates and loses helm control, slamming into a minesweeper and almost nailing another. The USS Bunker Hill is sunk by suicide boats.
The Allies advance thirty miles inland, and commence massive bombardment of the rest of Kyushu. When 1946 dawns, the Japanese have fought the Allies to a stalemate.

In the first weeks of January, the Commonwealth carriers report the passage of an odd ship to the Soviet shipyard at Vladivostok: the I.L. Lenin, a flattop carrier formerly known as the Graf Spee of the Kriegsmarine. On it's deck are some liberated Me109s and Buffalos, along with a few captured Me262s. The Soviets are clearly intending to try and play the carrier game.

The Japanese, with Soviet nudging, come to the table with a set of offers: the Americans keep control of Okinawa and everything else that they occupy as of January 1946, the Japanese keep Korea, and the war ends. Tired from the intense bloodshed, the Americans agree.

Now the Japanese concentrate on rebuilding their country, and turning towards the Sakhilin Islands, where they will take back their territory from a weaker Pacific enemy: the Soviets.

That was right off the top of my head, though. The first half is from a story that I've got up to the first-draft stage, while the last part is from another story idea I thought up at work, about a second Pacific War where the Japanese invade Communist Manchuria to repel an invasion by Korean Communist forces led by Kim Il Sung. Needless to say, the Chinese get some more pounding, the Soviets get a carrier sunk, and the Japanese Empire goes into 1955 with some jet designs of it's own.
I'd just like to say, though, that I don't the US would've given up that soon.

Thoughts?

[NapoleonXIV]

WWII goes as planned on the European front, but lightning strikes the Trinity test site and disables one of the atom bombs. (Act of God, you can't blame me for ASBing it!)

With only one bomb in it's arsenal, the US decides not use it since there's no more up it's sleeve. Truman orders operation Olympic.
The US invasion fleet is hit by a typhoon in October, while final preparations are beginning. The Cold War starts setting in in Europe, and the Allies (the NATO countries) decide they're not going to let this spread to Japan. A battlegroup of British Pacific Fleet carriers, along with HMCS Bonaventure and HMCS Warrior from the Canadian portion of the Commonwealth Fleet are dispatched to Northern Hokkaido to keep the Soviets on the mainland.

In December 1945, the Allies launch Operation Olympic against Kyushu, landing 14 divisions across a fifty-five mile arc. The US cruiser Alaska is heavily damaged by Okas, as well as four US escort and one US fleet carrier, whose wooden decks are splintered and hammered by the massed Kamikazes. USS Saratoga is nailed by not one, but TWO Kates and loses helm control, slamming into a minesweeper and almost nailing another. The USS Bunker Hill is sunk by suicide boats.
The Allies advance thirty miles inland, and commence massive bombardment of the rest of Kyushu. When 1946 dawns, the Japanese have fought the Allies to a stalemate.

In the first weeks of January, the Commonwealth carriers report the passage of an odd ship to the Soviet shipyard at Vladivostok: the I.L. Lenin, a flattop carrier formerly known as the Graf Spee of the Kriegsmarine. On it's deck are some liberated Me109s and Buffalos, along with a few captured Me262s. The Soviets are clearly intending to try and play the carrier game.

The Japanese, with Soviet nudging, come to the table with a set of offers: the Americans keep control of Okinawa and everything else that they occupy as of January 1946, the Japanese keep Korea, and the war ends. Tired from the intense bloodshed, the Americans agree.

Now the Japanese concentrate on rebuilding their country, and turning towards the Sakhilin Islands, where they will take back their territory from a weaker Pacific enemy: the Soviets.

That was right off the top of my head, though. The first half is from a story that I've got up to the first-draft stage, while the last part is from another story idea I thought up at work, about a second Pacific War where the Japanese invade Communist Manchuria to repel an invasion by Korean Communist forces led by Kim Il Sung. Needless to say, the Chinese get some more pounding, the Soviets get a carrier sunk, and the Japanese Empire goes into 1955 with some jet designs of it's own.
I'd just like to say, though, that I don't the US would've given up that soon.

Thoughts?

Are the Russians fighting the Japanese all along or just after the Carrier comes in?

If not, then aren't there about a million Japanese left in China? What are they doing?

What are the Japanese eating while Kyushu is being invaded? What's the effect of the bombing, which I assume is continuing apace over the whole country?

[DuQuense]

Pod 1933
Due to [Insert reason here] the Presidential trip to Chicago is canceled.

Hitler comes to Power as OTL
Togo In Japan

1936
On a Campaign tour in Chicago, a unemployed worker named Garfield, who has been obsessing for the past 4 years, bursts out of the Crowd,
and fires 4 rounds into Roosevelt, before turning the gun on Himself.

1937
Japan's invasion of China accelerates,
In response, the new US administration [:confused: :confused: Any Ideas :confused: :confused:] begins disengaging from the Far East.

1939
Hitler-Poland WW2 Etc.
NO US embargo on Japan.

1940
Butterflies lead to No German lost Plans. German enters thru Belgium
the Blitz and France's Continued fight are a large part of the US election.

1941
US Modifies from Cash and Carry to Credit and Carry for Britain and France.
Meanwhile still able to buy Oil, and Steel from the US and Southeast Asia, Japan has no reason to sign into the German/Italian Pact of Steel, The Tri part alliance is not formed.
Japan is still involved in China, and has no immediate plans to attack SE Asia.

1942
With Territory and Airfields in France, the Allies have fighter cover for more of their Bomber raids. and the raids begin to take affect.
Meanwhile Stalin finishes His New Stalin's Wall across Poland.
In China Chang kia Sheik has 300 divisions of troops. 50~60 fighting the Japs, 140~150 fighting Mao and the Communists,
and 150 poorly trained, highly Corrupt, divisions holding down Nationalist China, against the Other Warlords.
While Japan attacks both Chang's & Mao's forces, they try not to attack the Chinese forces that are engaged in the Civil War.

1943
with no fighting in the Pacific, both France and Britain have been able to pull troops from there, and throw them into North Africa,
This will have post war Consequences but for now It has allowed the Allies to push the Axis out of north Africa.
Now the Allies Launch three attacks,
One from Greece into Bulgaria aimed at Romania, One into Sicily, and the Main one from Southern France north, Attempting too take back France.
In China Japan is beginning to see light, as it's forces take more of the Industrial Coastal territories, and Both Mao and Chang begin running out of Supplies.
Late in the Year Japan wins a major Victory, as separate attacks bag first, Chang, and then Mao.

1944
The year opens with the Allies launching attacks into Holland and Belgium, at the same time as the first Allied troops enter Romania,
Then Russia which had been sitting on the sidelines jumps in.
20 Divisions of Russian Infantry, backed by Tanks, artillery and Planes pour across the border from Poland and the Ukraine.
Germany begins withdrawing Troops from Southern Italy to strengthen the Polish Wall, and to help The Romanians.
This is a major mistake as it is to late to help Romania, and without the Germans Italy collapses and Surrenders.
In China Thousands of Russians pour thru Kazakhstan, into Xiajiang, Supposedly in support of the Communists,
Japan pulls back out of Xiajiang, and opens a Diplomatic offense with Russia. As the rest of Chinese resistance crumbles, Britain begins warning Russia off of Tibet.
Japan has won the Chinese War, and is now faced with winning the peace as it try's to Administer it's Prize.

1945 opens with Russian troops pushing north from Romania into Hungary,
Allied troops moving from Serbia and Italy north, Allied troops crossing the Rhine, and a battle between the German's Polish Wall and the Russian's Stalin Line.
Hitler is determined and Yelling about the Stab in the Back begins pulling units from the Western Front and sending them East.

In August with Russian Troops in Austria & reaching the German Border, Hitler Breaks his Neck ""Falling down a flight of Steps"" and Germany surrenders to the Allies.
On August 23 Russian and Allied Forces meet at the Vistula and the War is Over.

[Brandonazz]

Why do the Russians suddenly jump in? they could very well have remained neutral if it wasn't for operation barbossa.

[backstab]

Pod 1933
Due to [Insert reason here] the Presidential trip to Chicago is canceled.

Hitler comes to Power as OTL
Togo In Japan

1936
On a Campaign tour in Chicago, a unemployed worker named Garfield, who has been obsessing for the past 4 years, bursts out of the Crowd,
and fires 4 rounds into Roosevelt, before turning the gun on Himself.

1937
Japan's invasion of China accelerates,
In response, the new US administration [:confused: :confused: Any Ideas :confused: :confused:] begins disengaging from the Far East.

1939
Hitler-Poland WW2 Etc.
NO US embargo on Japan.

1940
Butterflies lead to No German lost Plans. German enters thru Belgium
the Blitz and France's Continued fight are a large part of the US election.

1941
US Modifies from Cash and Carry to Credit and Carry for Britain and France.
Meanwhile still able to buy Oil, and Steel from the US and Southeast Asia, Japan has no reason to sign into the German/Italian Pact of Steel, The Tri part alliance is not formed.
Japan is still involved in China, and has no immediate plans to attack SE Asia.

1942
With Territory and Airfields in France, the Allies have fighter cover for more of their Bomber raids. and the raids begin to take affect.
Meanwhile Stalin finishes His New Stalin's Wall across Poland.
In China Chang kia Sheik has 300 divisions of troops. 50~60 fighting the Japs, 140~150 fighting Mao and the Communists,
and 150 poorly trained, highly Corrupt, divisions holding down Nationalist China, against the Other Warlords.
While Japan attacks both Chang's & Mao's forces, they try not to attack the Chinese forces that are engaged in the Civil War.

1943
with no fighting in the Pacific, both France and Britain have been able to pull troops from there, and throw them into North Africa,
This will have post war Consequences but for now It has allowed the Allies to push the Axis out of north Africa.
Now the Allies Launch three attacks,
One from Greece into Bulgaria aimed at Romania, One into Sicily, and the Main one from Southern France north, Attempting too take back France.
In China Japan is beginning to see light, as it's forces take more of the Industrial Coastal territories, and Both Mao and Chang begin running out of Supplies.
Late in the Year Japan wins a major Victory, as separate attacks bag first, Chang, and then Mao.

1944
The year opens with the Allies launching attacks into Holland and Belgium, at the same time as the first Allied troops enter Romania,
Then Russia which had been sitting on the sidelines jumps in.
20 Divisions of Russian Infantry, backed by Tanks, artillery and Planes pour across the border from Poland and the Ukraine.
Germany begins withdrawing Troops from Southern Italy to strengthen the Polish Wall, and to help The Romanians.
This is a major mistake as it is to late to help Romania, and without the Germans Italy collapses and Surrenders.
In China Thousands of Russians pour thru Kazakhstan, into Xiajiang, Supposedly in support of the Communists,
Japan pulls back out of Xiajiang, and opens a Diplomatic offense with Russia. As the rest of Chinese resistance crumbles, Britain begins warning Russia off of Tibet.
Japan has won the Chinese War, and is now faced with winning the peace as it try's to Administer it's Prize.

1945 opens with Russian troops pushing north from Romania into Hungary,
Allied troops moving from Serbia and Italy north, Allied troops crossing the Rhine, and a battle between the German's Polish Wall and the Russian's Stalin Line.
Hitler is determined and Yelling about the Stab in the Back begins pulling units from the Western Front and sending them East.

In August with Russian Troops in Austria & reaching the German Border, Hitler Breaks his Neck ""Falling down a flight of Steps"" and Germany surrenders to the Allies.
On August 23 Russian and Allied Forces meet at the Vistula and the War is Over.

Does the Allies include th US because if it does not, Britain and France would stand no chance of taking back Europe.
20 Divisions of Russian Infantry is worthless ..... make it 50-60 and Stalin might stand a chance.

Apart form that .... not bad

[Chengar Qordath]

Why do the Russians suddenly jump in? they could very well have remained neutral if it wasn't for operation barbossa.

Opportunism? Stalin sees Hitler's position collapsing and decides to grab some of Eastern Europe at relatively low cost.

[NHBL]

It is mid 1942--Midway has been successfully defended, and 4 Japanese carriers lie at the bottom. America is gearing up for a 2 front war, when the unthinkable happens. Condor long range bombers fly over cities on the East Coast, dropping biological agents over New York, Baltimore, Boston, and several other cities. The crews are recovered after the planes, out of fuel, ditch in the mid-Atlantic. The ensueing plages are horrific--and it is known that Germany was responsible. The plagues burn themselves out, leaving many dead--but not as many as Germany had hoped.
Similar attacks strike London, Manchester, Glasgow, Belfast, Moscow, Leningrad, and a navigational error drops a load over Dublin.
The USA still has a lot of war fighting capacity, and a population that wants to destroy Germany at all costs.
Japan offers peace, based on acceptance of the status quo plus a resumption of oil shipments. The US refuses, and counters with peace based on pre-war positions, plus resumed oil shipments.
With a need for more resources in the fight against Germany, a deal is hammered out: Japan withdraws from the Philipines, Singapore, and Hoing Kong, and certain other posessions, but keeps the oil rich locations it was trying to seize.
Even with no need to fight Japan, the Allies face a tough fight, as the USSR is weaker, and many resources are going to fight the plague. However, many remaining neutrals join the war, as they see that Germany has endangered them as well.
In late 1945, Berlin vanishes in a ball of star-hot fire.
I suspect that this war would also see gas deployed as a counter to the bio-weapon, and this war would be even nastier than World War II was in OTL.

[Zarth]

this war would be even nastier than World War II was in OTL.are you kiding? of course the war would be nastier than OTL WWII, the US and fellow allies would have an unsatiable thirst for revenge (think of the attrocities the soviets commited in their march through germany only ALOT worse)

[MacCaulay]

Are the Russians fighting the Japanese all along or just after the Carrier comes in?

If not, then aren't there about a million Japanese left in China? What are they doing?

What are the Japanese eating while Kyushu is being invaded? What's the effect of the bombing, which I assume is continuing apace over the whole country?

The Russians wouldn't be. They're motivation for keeping the carrier is that they see the Japanese might be able to come out of this to be a player in the post-war world, and they want some sort of bargaining tool.
The Soviet armies are pushing south in China, which is why the Japanese just ask for Korea. The Soviets attack in Manchuria, then give the Japanese a get out of jail free card by gauranteeing them Korea.

As to what the Japanese are eating...well...grass, maybe...each other...take your pick. The bombing for the invasion was planned to be concentraited on Kyushu. The Allied High Command didn't want to have another Okinawa or Iwo Jima. They wanted everything flattened eight or nine times over, and were willing to pull strategic bombers off of other missions to do it.

Historical note: The introduction of the Soviet carrier is alternate only in their use of the vessel. The Soviets managed to capture the Graf Spee after the war, and it was last seen sailing back to Russia with it's decks full of industrial equipment.

[Sargon]

Historical note: The introduction of the Soviet carrier is alternate only in their use of the vessel. The Soviets managed to capture the Graf Spee after the war, and it was last seen sailing back to Russia with it's decks full of industrial equipment.

Surely you mean Flugzeugträger A, otherwise known as the Graf Zeppelin....

Sargon

[MacCaulay]

Surely you mean Flugzeugträger A, otherwise known as the Graf Zeppelin....

Sargon

Danke shein, Sargon. I assure you the red you're seeing is only the embarrassed flush on my face. :)

[NapoleonXIV]

The Russians wouldn't be. They're motivation for keeping the carrier is that they see the Japanese might be able to come out of this to be a player in the post-war world, and they want some sort of bargaining tool.
The Soviet armies are pushing south in China, which is why the Japanese just ask for Korea. The Soviets attack in Manchuria, then give the Japanese a get out of jail free card by gauranteeing them Korea.

As to what the Japanese are eating...well...grass, maybe...each other...take your pick. The bombing for the invasion was planned to be concentraited on Kyushu. The Allied High Command didn't want to have another Okinawa or Iwo Jima. They wanted everything flattened eight or nine times over, and were willing to pull strategic bombers off of other missions to do it.

Historical note: The introduction of the Soviet carrier is alternate only in their use of the vessel. The Soviets managed to capture the Graf Spee after the war, and it was last seen sailing back to Russia with it's decks full of industrial equipment.

The best bargaining tool I can think of against an ally of your main opponent in a war just ended is to be one of the buzzards in on the feast of its just unconditionally surrendered corpse; beats a refurbished aircraft carrier to fight him all hollow, especially considering I can get this surrender almost for just showing up.

This really depends on how good the Russians are at psyching the Japanese. In OTL it was the Russian entry into the war that really convinced the Japanese military to surrender, NOT the atom bombs. They only killed civilians after all. The Japanese High Command was probably counting on the soldiers they had in China to flank any invasion, and now found them occupied with the second largest Army on Earth.

[MacCaulay]

This really depends on how good the Russians are at psyching the Japanese. In OTL it was the Russian entry into the war that really convinced the Japanese military to surrender, NOT the atom bombs. They only killed civilians after all. The Japanese High Command was probably counting on the soldiers they had in China to flank any invasion, and now found them occupied with the second largest Army on Earth.

You just proved my point. The Soviets are basically thinking ahead: they know that the Americans will have a third party to deal with now in the Pacific, and the Soviets can possibly pull them into their sphere of influence. If the Soviets are the ones that nudge the Japanese, then they've already accomplished the goal of setting themselves apart from the Anglo-speaking Allies.

[shane]

The United States backs Japan's efforts in China due to Communist revolution happening in 1920s. Japan never attacks the United States in Dec. 1941. Germany grows tired of America arming British and declares War in mid 1942.
With no two ocean war to fight Germany is defeated as in OTL in early 1945. Due to growing alarm at the spread of Communism, Ike orders patton to push into east Germany Soviets don't get Berlin but reach the Polish Border.
Japan holds onto coastal China and Korea for 30 or so years.

[Admiral Matt]

It's as easy as keeping the Americans out of the war. Then just let things take their natural course...

[WhatIsAUserName]

You need to give a reason for America to stay out of the war. IIRC, America was gearing up to go to war with Japan if they went for the Dutch East Indies, which they would considering the American and European sanctions against them. In addition, Japan attacked the Phillipines since the island chain was located in an ideal spot to cut off their empire between the DEI and China.

[Faeelin]

Here's an idea.

At the end of 1936, the GMD warlord/general Zhang Xieliang kidnapped Chiang at X'ian, near Communist Yennan.

He debated killing him, but the CCP (thanks to Stalin) said that the nation would collapse into warlordism if he did.

POD: He does, and the nation does collapse.

Japan easily mops up China, and by 1938 the Wang Jingwei puppet regime is installed in Nanjing.

[Wendell]

Here's an idea.

At the end of 1936, the GMD warlord/general Zhang Xieliang kidnapped Chiang at X'ian, near Communist Yennan.

He debated killing him, but the CCP (thanks to Stalin) said that the nation would collapse into warlordism if he did.

POD: He does, and the nation does collapse.

Japan easily mops up China, and by 1938 the Wang Jingwei puppet regime is installed in Nanjing.

That could do it. That would have interesting effects down the road.

[Fenwick]

1942- Japan realizes two things rather quickly: America will not back down, and all Japan can do is injure not stop the US. Yamamoto began to stress a change in Japanese tactics, no looking for the big naval battle that would break the back of the US.

Operations in the other areas go on as planned, taking Indonesia, Burma, and all the rest. After much pushing and even threatening the Imperial Army goes on the defensive in China sticking to areas they can easily control, allowing more resources for the navy. The plans to head to Midway are called off just to be safe.

1943- Little by little America keeps recieving offers for a cease fire, this is compounded upon when the Japanese in a surprise move give up close to five thousand American troops. The troops tell tales of harsh treatment against British, Dutch, and even a few American's but not to the degree of OTL.

The Japanese go on the defensive holding the fleet back, and no major clashes between Japan and the US occur.

1944- When the US starts pushing into New Guinea and Indonesia, they either find the Japanese pulling back or solid fortified postions. A few battles occur leading to the American and Japanese dying in droves, yet the numbers are staggering with the determined Japanese army.

More and more Americans are seeing the war in the Pacific as not a war of revenge for Pearl Harbor but a bloody conflict. Victories in Europe, and long drawn out battles on tiny islands no one has heard off.

1945- With Germany out of the war, America faces something new, Japan for the most part still holds much of the South pacific, and the battles to take the islands where long and bloody, near the home islands the Imperial fleet still moves about, yet now with the smaller carriers adding even more of their airforce to the mix. President Truman makes a hard, and some what unpopular decision when he asks Japan to talk about a cease fire.

Arguements fly about with Japan refusing to give up European land, and America demanding a stop to the conflicts. In the end America silences all discussions with the detonation of its Atomic bomb on a neutral sight observed by the Japanese.

Japan agrees to end its war in China, and pulls out of the Philipines, as well as Indonesia, however they still hold onto Korea, Manchuria, and Indo-China.

1946- Japan sends weapons to the Nationalists, Warlords, and the Communists to keep China as destabilized as possible. With its resources starting to build up the nation goes on a massive building spree to increase and upgrade its navy, and more importantly the army that patrols the border with the USSR.

[The Gunslinger]

I think Japan could pull through, but the key is not fighting the United States, or if they do fight the United States, drag it on for as long as possible. A few lucky carrier battles keeps pushing the American timetables behind, until they realize that unless they focus more on Europe ASAP, the USSR will be on the border with France.

[Rasputin]

Just off the top of my head, you could have the Germans facing more effective resistance in France in 1940 (attacking the Germans' southern flank as they swung north towards the coast, for example), leading to Nazi Germany being seen as less of a threat and consequently strengthening the chances of the Republican presidential candidate to win the election later that year, thereby avoiding the imposition of Roosevelt's oil embargo and thereby removing the causus bellum for Japanese seizure of South-East Asia. Germany subsequently runs foul of its 'expand or die' economic policies and the front collapses after 3 years of heavy fighting, leading to the fall of the Nazi regime with no US involvement but more heavily depleted Britain and France.

In this scenario there's no 'second world war' per se but instead essentially a repeat of the latter days of the First World War. And Japan lives on to continue its war in China uninterrupted.

[OperationGreen]

There Was that Idea of FDR dieing
With a Wallace Administration Making a Separate Peace with Japan to Focus on Helping the Soviets more.

[Calgacus]

simple. japan doesn't attack the US, and concentrates her efforts against china. the US offers strong support to the British, but stops short of declaring war on germany. the soviets win in europe after a long war (maybe by 1946/1947) and the red tide washes against the shores of the english channel. the question then is whether the japanese could ever conquer and hold china?

[MacCaulay]

There Was that Idea of FDR dieing
With a Wallace Administration Making a Separate Peace with Japan to Focus on Helping the Soviets more.

What is this with people thinking Wallace was a Soviet-sympathizer? I wrote my sophomore college year post-1877 report on Henry Wallace and I can tell you without any doubt that he was not a Soviet sympathizer. He was leftist, yes, but no further left than Roosevelt. For Christ's sake, he was a member of the Republican party for his first two years in the FDR administration, when he was Secretary of Agriculture.

[OperationGreen]

What is this with people thinking Wallace was a Soviet-sympathizer? I wrote my sophomore college year post-1877 report on Henry Wallace and I can tell you without any doubt that he was not a Soviet sympathizer. He was leftist, yes, but no further left than Roosevelt. For Christ's sake, he was a member of the Republican party for his first two years in the FDR administration, when he was Secretary of Agriculture.

WOW don't bite my Head off im just suggesting the Idea from the What If? book?

[Rasputin]

I have to admit, this was a point I was going to bring up in another thread that brought his name up. How come it is automatically assumed that Wallace would be a wimp when made President?

[The Sandman]

This might require Alien Space Bats, as it would necessitate the Japanese military leadership (particularly the Army) having some degree of flexibility in the late 1930s and early 1940s.

The first essential element is that the Japanese do not try for all of China; basically, they call it a day by mid-to-late 1938, retaining control over a few strategic areas (the Shandong Peninsula, Shanghai and the Yangtze delta, Fuzhou, Guangzhou and the Pearl Delta, and Hainan). With Chiang's power in ruins, China presumably collapses back into warlordism, while Japan happily profits from the chaos.

Part two is that the Germans capture the Dutch government before it has the chance to flee to Britain. This allows the Japanese to have the Germans sweeten the pot by forcing the Dutch to hand over Indonesia as part of the same deal that gave Japan French Indochina.

Part three is that the Japanese do not attack the British outright; instead, they support independence movements in the British colonies with the idea of gaining some postwar leverage.

Part four: attempt to purchase the Portugese Asian colonies; Goa in particular would be strategically useful.

Part five: sit back and enjoy the fireworks as the rest of the world tears itself apart.

[JHPier]

...
The first essential element is that the Japanese do not try for all of China; basically, they call it a day by mid-to-late 1938, retaining control over a few strategic areas (the Shandong Peninsula, Shanghai and the Yangtze delta, Fuzhou, Guangzhou and the Pearl Delta, and Hainan). With Chiang's power in ruins, China presumably collapses back into warlordism, while Japan happily profits from the chaos. China did not collapse back into warlordism in OTL, so why should it do so if the Japanese take less?


Part two is that the Germans capture the Dutch government before it has the chance to flee to Britain. This allows the Japanese to have the Germans sweeten the pot by forcing the Dutch to hand over Indonesia as part of the same deal that gave Japan French Indochina. This assumes that the authorities in Batavia obey a captive government. Not something I should take for granted.

[MerryPrankster]

I have to admit, this was a point I was going to bring up in another thread that brought his name up. How come it is automatically assumed that Wallace would be a wimp when made President?

Wallace was very naive re: the intentions of the Soviet Union. He "wised up" some time in the 1950s, but had he been President in the late 1940s, the evil schemer Stalin would have taken advantage of him a lot.

[Homer]

One point to think of: If the war in Europe is over, and the Japanese still fights on in China, what should stop Stalin from supporting Mao and chinese Communists? The Soviet Union ends the war in Europe as a super power. Add some years of recovery, then in the 50s it would be more then ready to "liberate" China and Korea. And when it's on the way, why not taking Japan anyway?

Thus I'd say if Imperial Japan should survive until today, the Soviet Union must fall. Thus the Nazis should win or the US should fight the Soviets.