A few random history questions...Nazis and South Africa

[Agentdark]

Okay..a few thoughts about a possbile Nazi victory, as I am considering it for a TL>..


1.What in your opionion would be the best POD for Hitler to win the war, but Britian is unconquered, and the Soviet Union remains, but is pushed back the Urals.

2.What is the Largest city east of the Urals

3.Who would most likly take over hte Soviet Government if stalin and Beria were killed

4.Did Hitler have any designated succesors

5.Could the United States be prevented from fighting Germany, but instead only fight Japan.

6.After the USSR fell, did Hitler have any other areas he wanted to conquer

7.What were his plans for the middle east.

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Other Questions

1.When was Australia colonized?

2.Would it have been possible for the French to control Australia instead of Britian

3.When was South Africa colonized by the British


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Thanks for your help, I have a shitload of homework or i would look these up myself, and I want to work on the TL tommrow...

[Jammy]

4.Did Hitler have any designated succesors

I'm pretty sure that it changed with his mood, he made the Admiral his succesor becasue he felt the airforce and army had let him down

[Max Sinister]

1. Hitler has anti-Communist Russians fighting together with the Wehrmacht, prepares for a longer war, and attacks earlier. Moscow has to fall before winter.

2. Omsk or Novosibirsk. Don't know about 1941.

3. Molotov maybe? Or some army general? (All together now: "ZHUKOV!")

4. During most of the time, Göring first and Goebbels second. He "disinherited" Göring because in 1945 Göring had contacted the Allies. Of course, it's another question whether the other nazis simply accept Göring...

5. Maybe if Hitler doesn't declare war on them... the average Americans were quite isolationist...

6. All the neutral states of Europe (Sweden, Switzerland, Portugal), the Middle East, Mittelafrika, Persia and India (if not as a colony, then at least to make sure the Brits don't have it either), and even later, the USA (no kidding!)

7. Unclear. At first kicking the Brits out, with the help of the Arabs, then persecuting the Jews, but after that... improbable that he'd leave all the oil simply to the Arabs.

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Second part:

1. and 3.: Check wikipedia.

2. Many other powers could've... the problem is, Australia's pretty dry and uninteresting at the first glimpse if you come from the North, West or South. The only area better suited for settling is in the SE, where most people live.

[Larrikin]

The First Fleet arrived in January 1788, and was followed very shortly thereafter by a French fleet which arrived in February of that year on an exploratory trip. As for French control, even if they had managed to establish a colony in Oz it would have become British very shortly thereafter as the Brits gobbled up all the French colonies extant at the time.

The British got Cape Colony from the Dutch in 1806 (it had been established in 1652 and became a refuge for religious hardliners as obnoxious as America's Pilgrm Fathers.).

[Agentdark]

Hitler has anti-Communist Russians fighting together with the Wehrmacht, prepares for a longer war, and attacks earlier. Moscow has to fall before winter.

Works, so Hitler listins to his Generals and does a strait drive to Moscow...

2. Omsk or Novosibirsk. Don't know about 1941.
I heard Novosibirsk, i was just wondering if anybody else knew something different..


3. Molotov maybe? Or some army general? (All together now: "ZHUKOV!")
I will go with Molotov, just to be non Nazi Victory Conformist

. During most of the time, Göring first and Goebbels second. He "disinherited" Göring because in 1945 Göring had contacted the Allies. Of course, it's another question whether the other nazis simply accept Göring...

hmm, okay, you just gave me a very good idea...



5. Maybe if Hitler doesn't declare war on them... the average Americans were quite isolationist...
Seems plausable enough

All the neutral states of Europe (Sweden, Switzerland, Portugal), the Middle East, Mittelafrika, Persia and India (if not as a colony, then at least to make sure the Brits don't have it either), and even later, the USA (no kidding!)
Works for me, though I doubt he could drive all the way to India..and USA...yeah...
Hmm, Facist Union of India or something...


7. Unclear. At first kicking the Brits out, with the help of the Arabs, then persecuting the Jews, but after that... improbable that he'd leave all the oil simply to the Arabs.
Works for me...


Many other powers could've... the problem is, Australia's pretty dry and uninteresting at the first glimpse if you come from the North, West or South. The only area better suited for settling is in the SE, where most people live.
I wonder, if the Britds dont take it, would the french or the Germans be a better canditdate..?



1. and 3.: Check wikipedia.
Will do

Thanks for your help

[Max Sinister]

"I wonder, if the Britds dont take it, would the french or the Germans be a better canditdate..?"

Whoever comes first from the East. Maybe a Spanish ship going to the Philippines blown far south by a storm? I can't remember we ever had a Spanish Australia... or even better, an Australia that serves as a penal colony (heretics, Jews, Muslims?)

[Agentdark]

Whoever comes first from the East. Maybe a Spanish ship going to the Philippines blown far south by a storm? I can't remember we ever had a Spanish Australia... or even better, an Australia that serves as a penal colony (heretics, Jews, Muslims?)
THats a fun idea..I dont think I have seen Spanish Australia before..havent seen German either...I saw Indian, but that was on Rise of Nations....

[Andrelvis]

What if Australia is colonized by no-one AT ALL, and is kept empty until World War II time, when the Jews choose it as a place to settle during/after the Holocaust?

[Michael B]

5.Could the United States be prevented from fighting Germany, but instead only fight Japan.
The United States doesn't have to fight Germany to see it defeated. Roosevelt's strategy was to avoid direct war with Germany as long as possible. However, he was more than happy to supply the British Empire, France when it was in the war and the Soviet Union with the equipment, munitions, etc they needed. It was Hitler's declaration that brought the Americans directly into the war in Europe.

So obviously no declaration here.

Also what you may be looking for is a US president who is more isolationist and less ready to support Europe economically. The impact of this would be direct in that the Soviet Union would not have the trucks for its counter-offensive and the British would not have Lease Lend and so be short of tanks and planes (as a point of interest, the commonest type of tank in the British army at the end of the war was reputed to be the Sherman.)

You may also look at a scenario where the British Empire and the Americans don't link up against the Japanese. If the latter keep out of Malaya, Burma and Hong Kong, the Americans will be less ready to supply those countries in the Other War.

[TheMann]

1.What in your opionion would be the best POD for Hitler to win the war, but Britian is unconquered, and the Soviet Union remains, but is pushed back the Urals.

1945 would be my guess. The Nazis get Spain on their side, and force Britain to settle with just the islands, and turn everything against the Nazis. That ,assuming they were well-prepared (which they weren't in OTL) then they could motor to Moscow by about early 1944. They'd shove the Soviets back to the Urals by early 1945.

2.What is the Largest city east of the Urals

Novosibirisk or Vladivostok.

3.Who would most likly take over hte Soviet Government if stalin and Beria were killed

Molotov or perhaps Leon Trotsky if he was still alive.

4.Did Hitler have any designated succesors

No, but I'd wager Goebbels or Goring. One of the two would be the most likely to take over if Hitler dies.

5.Could the United States be prevented from fighting Germany, but instead only fight Japan.

Doubtful. The only way I can see it not happening is if Roosevelt doesn't back the British and the other allies. Roosevelt became president in 1932, so unless you're gonna go all the way back that far he's gonna be in the picture.

6.After the USSR fell, did Hitler have any other areas he wanted to conquer

I can imagine him going after Turkey and into the Middle East. Oil hadn't been discovered in ME in 1945, but it was possible and it was suspected.

7.What were his plans for the middle east.

No clue.

1.When was Australia colonized?

First British colony was set up where Sydney is now in 1788.

2.Would it have been possible for the French to control Australia instead of Britian

Possible, but unlikely because the Dutch were in Indonesia and going around them would be problematic. Possible for sure, but I don't think it's terribly likely. Besides, the British were already gobbling up territory by then.

3.When was South Africa colonized by the British

The British got the Cape Colony from the Dutch in 1806, and took over Natal province in 1848. They didn't control the Orange Free State and the Transvaal until after the Boer War, which ended in 1902.

[HueyLong]

Hitler did have a designated successor- but not as Fuhrer. He did not want the position of Fuhrer passed on, and had appointed Karl Donitz as the next President, and Goebbels as the next Chancellor. The offices were to remain separate after his death.

[Burton K Wheeler]

Hitler did have a designated successor- but not as Fuhrer. He did not want the position of Fuhrer passed on, and had appointed Karl Donitz as the next President, and Goebbels as the next Chancellor. The offices were to remain separate after his death.

Sounds like an interesting setup for a Roman Republic/Roman Empire type of transition. Some SS fanatic type wants to take back both offices, dismantle the existing military and government apparatus outside the Party, etc.

[Smaug]

1.What in your opionion would be the best POD for Hitler to win the war, but Britian is unconquered, and the Soviet Union remains, but is pushed back the Urals.

I'm of the opinion that hitler should have take Stalingrad first. Less losses due too cold weather, and the all important oil supplies in the area.


2.What is the Largest city east of the Urals ...I like Irkutsk here.

3.Who would most likly take over hte Soviet Government if stalin and Beria were killed... Whoever is chosen, learned his trade from Stalin and Beria

4.Did Hitler have any designated succesors...probably changed quite frequently I propose Rommel, or Skorzeny. Only because thier my favorite WWII Germans:P

5.Could the United States be prevented from fighting Germany, but instead only fight Japan. Leave England alone, shipping will be a problem though.

6.After the USSR fell, did Hitler have any other areas he wanted to conquer

Middle East probably immediately. I also think he'd try to clean house in the Balkans.

7.What were his plans for the middle east. Oil


Just my 2

[HueyLong]

Sounds like an interesting setup for a Roman Republic/Roman Empire type of transition. Some SS fanatic type wants to take back both offices, dismantle the existing military and government apparatus outside the Party, etc.

It does fit his premise pretty well, doesn't it? But then again, so does the odd incentive for betrayal they had in Nazi Germany.

Fom what I understand, Hitler wanted to split the offices because he believed no one else but him would be capable enough.

[pacifichistorian]

When was Australia colonized?
It was discovered by Abel Tasman for Holland 1740 (IIRC; maybe 1760), but not claimed. If he had, France might end up with it in a swap during one of the wars before WW1 (ARW? Napoleonic?).

[vultan]

3.When was South Africa colonized by the British


You do know the Dutch got there a whole heck of a lot before them?

[super12345]

Okay..a few thoughts about a possbile Nazi victory, as I am considering it for a TL>..


1.What in your opionion would be the best POD for Hitler to win the war, but Britian is unconquered, and the Soviet Union remains, but is pushed back the Urals.

2.What is the Largest city east of the Urals

3.Who would most likly take over hte Soviet Government if stalin and Beria were killed

4.Did Hitler have any designated succesors

5.Could the United States be prevented from fighting Germany, but instead only fight Japan.

6.After the USSR fell, did Hitler have any other areas he wanted to conquer

7.What were his plans for the middle east.

---------
Other Questions

1.When was Australia colonized?

2.Would it have been possible for the French to control Australia instead of Britian

3.When was South Africa colonized by the British


-------------


I'm going to take some guesses
1. Probably Halifax becoming PM, thus Germany can focus on Russia. Or Germany focuses on the Med. Those two are the most likely I think
2. Novosibirsk Now, I don't know in WW2
3. Zhukov, especially if in a coup.
4. Not an offical one, but Himmler or Goring would probably take control.
5. Germany ceremoniously declare war on Japan after Pearl Harbor.
6. The world, basically. I'm not sure a region he would pay special attention to. Probably Britain or the U.S. or India
7. I have no clue

[Julius Vogel]

You do know the Dutch got there a whole heck of a lot before them?

Hopefully he does now, it being a couple of years since he asked this question;)

[HJ Tulp]

It was discovered by Abel Tasman for Holland 1740 (IIRC; maybe 1760), but not claimed. If he had, France might end up with it in a swap during one of the wars before WW1 (ARW? Napoleonic?).


Your a century off. It was in 1642.

[TheNordicBrit]

Hopefully he does now, it being a couple of years since he asked this question;)

I only just realised he sent this two years ago :p:D:eek:

[Julius Vogel]

I only just realised he sent this two years ago :p:D:eek:

heh.

This forum does have some very interesting archives, but despite this, I often see rather random posts revived

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

heh.

This forum does have some very interesting archives, but despite this, I often see rather random posts revived
Yeah, Usually by Pacific Historian ...

Seriously PH ...

What is it With you, And these LONG-Dead World War II Threads; What is your Problem, Anyway?

[Blue Max]

Okay..a few thoughts about a possbile Nazi victory, as I am considering it for a TL>..


1.What in your opionion would be the best POD for Hitler to win the war, but Britian is unconquered, and the Soviet Union remains, but is pushed back the Urals.

2.What is the Largest city east of the Urals

3.Who would most likly take over hte Soviet Government if stalin and Beria were killed

4.Did Hitler have any designated succesors

5.Could the United States be prevented from fighting Germany, but instead only fight Japan.

6.After the USSR fell, did Hitler have any other areas he wanted to conquer

7.What were his plans for the middle east.

---------
Other Questions

1.When was Australia colonized?

2.Would it have been possible for the French to control Australia instead of Britian

3.When was South Africa colonized by the British


-------------
Thanks for your help, I have a shitload of homework or i would look these up myself, and I want to work on the TL tommrow...

1. PM Halifax and Spain joining the war leads to the UK Peacing out. With all forces available, Germany brings Vichy, Spain, and Italy fully against the Soviet Union in a Overpowered Barbarossa attack.

2. Novosibirisk probably for its central location.

3. Stalin's presumed Heir was a man named Andrei Zhandov; depending on the cause of death he might take over the Soviet Union (and get screwed up in his drunken haze.) Molotov is often suggested, although I don't know how he'd do.

4. Goring was Hitler's designated successor for most of his rule. That said, the SS would very powerful and Himmler or Heydrich would probably wind up running the show.

5. Yes, actually, if the UK has peaced out, the major pressure for the US to DoW Germany has subsided. In this regard, a US-Japan war only is more likely.

6. The USSR would be hell in a shell to conquer. He had some idea of restoring Germany's holdings in Africa and probably some kind of Middle East expansion; I would have to imagine a Germany that WON the war in the East would be tired and try little for the next decade.

7. Arabs are just above Jews on the German Racial Scale. If Germany decides to move into the Middle East, I would suspect a "Arab Question" will emerge on the SS agenda. After the Jews and the Poles, the Arabs might be the next people to disappear off the planet.

Other Questions:

O1: Australia was 1800s-ish; in several pieces; they used penal colonies.

O2: France? Probably not. The UK-French Rivalry being what it was and the UK ruling the oceans, France would have little chance of getting there.

O3: South Africa was Dutch originally, and the UK Seized it piecemeal.

[pacifichistorian]

Your a century off. It was in 1642.
Yep... So much for my memory.:(