Smelounge

[G.Bone]

This thread is hereby open for discussions about Second Mosaic Earth and all relations therein.

[Michael]

Why don't you try posting an faq to aquaint people who are unfamiliar with the mosaic earth concept

[G.Bone]

Sweet bejuses. That was fast. That'll be the third topic I'll do.

[God_of_Belac]

So how are we apportioning countries? I want to get started!

[Diamond]

I'm with Belac; what's up?

[G.Bone]

just sign up for you countries. I guess the limit would be 3 at one grab, just to allow others for their choice.

[Leej]

The event will take place on the 12th of July (just to have it at the beginning of the week :p).

As said to stop craziness everything must be real alternate history unless it has approval. It can be far fetched alternate history (maybe even as farfetched as Draka) but not out and out ASB.
Also how about the POD must be within the last 10,000 years (to stop drastic geological PODs).

[G.Bone]

I agree with that....

[Diamond]

Yup, agreement here too.

[tom]

Only question is what time July 12...might affect how stories set in the immediate aftermath of the event are handled. How does 00:00:01 GMT sound?

[Diamond]

Only question is what time July 12...might affect how stories set in the immediate aftermath of the event are handled. How does 00:00:01 GMT sound?
That's cool with me; that'll actually work well with the story I'm working on...

[Leej]

Wouldn't it be easier at noon GMT so then it is on the same day for almost the whole world?
Also I want it to be on the morning for my American place ;)

[tom]

Leej:
Good point...that prevents the July 11 or 13 question.
Diamond:
Can your story "fit" into a Noon GMT?

[Diamond]

Diamond:
Can your story "fit" into a Noon GMT?
With some tweaking here and there. Don't worry about it; whatever you guys decide on is cool for me. I'm adaptable. :)

But now I have a question: If its 12 noon GMT, what time would it be in the Philippines? 8 PM? Is that it?

[G.Bone]

here's a question: do i reserve countries for those whom haven't registered or do i allot them to the registered players?

[tom]

I'll take a zone or two extra if I HAVE too, but not sure I could do justice. Maybe a Castro (I REALLY wish someone else would do a plausible CMW +42 yr though) or maybe the Wild West one I fooled around with once (though that one makes Draka look plausible, even if it is not outright fantasy).

[Diamond]

When can we start posting our countries in the 'Maps & Countries' thread? (Which I assume is the 'official' listing?) Mine are sketched out and ready to go...

[GBW]

Thought I'd move my question to this thread: are published universes allowed in SME as long as they are within the technological requirements?

[Diamond]

Thought I'd move my question to this thread: are published universes allowed in SME as long as they are within the technological requirements?
I personally would be against it; it'd be much more interesting to see original stuff.
But I'll go with what the majority wants.

[G.Bone]

I've posted that published universes are allowed, but altered so that it is different than what is on the page [i.e., the Draka are named Draga, or something like that]. That all right by you guys?

[GBW]

-> Published works are ...accepted along as there are noticable differences in it. I.E. The Draka were cornered near Zimbabawe and were contained behind a great wall near Madagascare (or something to that effect.)

I've posted that published universes are allowed, but altered so that it is different than what is on the page [i.e., the Draka are named Draga, or something like that]. That all right by you guys?

Shouldn't be too much of a problem, the published universe I'm considering takes place in the past and I'd be creating a possible future (present day) for it.

[G.Bone]

Cool. I've set up the cut off date for registering for nations at Tom'w morning at 9AM [this is for every clock that y'all are on]. At 5PM, the map is open for another round, and if it isn't filled up, then I will open it up for anyone who wants (although I sincerely doubt anyone can manage more than 4 nations at a time)

[Diamond]

When can we start posting our countries in the 'Maps & Countries' thread? (Which I assume is the 'official' listing?) Mine are sketched out and ready to go...

Well, I'm going to post my first zone... Anyone that wants me to wait, speak now or forever hold your peace.

[tom]

Diamond:
Well, you probably know more about my two zones than almost any other ATL we are likely to see, and I am interested in learning about the other zones (if only so I can start thinking about how they will inreact with mine).
G.Bone:
No more for me...I will only be able to handle two because one of them is practically a nuclear wasteland.

[G.Bone]

@ Tom
'kay.

I've extended the deadline to today, seeing if there are more stragglers. If the map isn't filled up, it's open for anyone who wants 4 or I will end up assigning some to the players [random] to fill them up.

[DuQuense]

Can't whe just leave the unclaimed as per OTL?

[G.Bone]

:confused: :confused: explain DuQuense

On a different subject all together,

I need help on the Maps & Registration forum. I haven't really been that accurate in logging all the registered nations and I would like asssistance in accounting all those that have the selected nations. Please PM me if interested.

And on a third subject,

Who will be our mods once the Maps & Registration are done? Even though I may have given off the impression that I am going to mod everything in this game, that will be too much work. I'll gladly give responsibility for the monitoring of the Diplomatic Exchanges (and such) to those whom want it.

[tom]

I think DuQuense wants large areas to be from OTL. My understanding is that ONLY Great Britain is from OTL.
BTW, the thread title always makes me think of Smeagol, Gollum's "real" name :-)

[fred_smith]

I've asked for some territory for this project, is there much else I need to do to be involved?

[G.Bone]

Fred Smith-
first you have to see if it's approved by the players
then write up it's history, leaders, in the fact forum
then wait until the the game starts.

[Leej]

I was thinking today.
Won't the economys of most the places mosaiced be ruined? They would be totally seperated from their world's markets and their suppliers and all that. This would get worse and worse as the world gets more advanced with in our current world different parts of a product being made all around the world and made slightly differently for different markets and all that.
There was also something else I thought of but I've forgot it :(

[Landshark]

I was thinking today.
Won't the economys of most the places mosaiced be ruined? They would be totally seperated from their world's markets and their suppliers and all that. This would get worse and worse as the world gets more advanced with in our current world different parts of a product being made all around the world and made slightly differently for different markets and all that.

This is a point I usually bring up in discussions about isoting countries from over time to the past. Some countries in OTL import energy and water from other countries so I wonder how that'll go? and what about the Channel Tunnel?

[Diamond]

Well, that'll be half the fun of writing about, won't it? :D :p

And it'll foster cooperation, instead of constant war, between neighbors.

[Leej]

Thats it! Something I had to remember-
Every nation being transferred is a world power for some reason, there are no developing nations. Everything is a super powered nation.
Where will the world get its cheap labour?

[DuQuense]

Where will the world get its cheap labour?

Option 1- Conquer a Neighbor, and enslave the population.

Option 2- Train your Gettoes, Barrios, & Slums.

[Landshark]

Option 1- Conquer a Neighbor, and enslave the population.

What are your countries again DQ?

[DuQuense]

Option 1- Conquer a Neighbor, and enslave the population.
Every nation being transferred is a world power for some reason, there are no developing nations. Everything is a super powered nation.

This is why there was a "Plan B"

[God_of_Belac]

My third nation won't be a world power, nor will most of my fourth if I still have it.

[Diamond]

I guess you could make a case that one of my nations (New Hebrides) was a superpower, but that was back in its home TL. Now its at most a regional power.

My other one, Hispaniola, has always relied on its large neighbor, the Kingdom of Virginia, for protection. They aren't and have never been a great power.

[Diamond]

I still think we need to have 7 separate threads - one for each continent - to list the nations. Its already a nightmare trying to find the description for any given nation. Antarctica can be lumped in with Oceania.

[DuQuense]

?Is this where we get to disect, Opp I mean rationally and calmly discuss each others PODs? :rolleyes: Or will whe have to post our PODs in the main board. :confused:

[Landshark]

I'm having real trouble coming up with a decent falg for Australia. The basic red with the Southern Cross in gold is fine, (dispite looking a bit communistic) but it's the other half of the flag I can't get a handle on, the part that in OTL would be the Union Flag. Apart from the two in the other forum I got three other possibilities that I'd like some opinions on.

[G.Bone]

@DuQuense

This thread is for "whatevers" and just basically discussing out of character what you are going to do. it's also a place where you can have input on the running of the game (itself).

[Landshark]

Number one has a blue, red and white tricolour running down the side which is meant to be the flag of the Kingdom of Britannia, which could either go like the French/Belgian flag or the Dutch/German/Russian one.

[G.Bone]

@Landshark

Maybe you want to ...shorten that flag up so that it looks less of a carpet and more of a flag.

[Landshark]

Number two is basically the same but with a blue, white and gold flag.

[Landshark]

And finally number three.

[Landshark]

@Landshark

Maybe you want to ...shorten that flag up so that it looks less of a carpet and more of a flag.

They're just the OTL Australian and New Zealand flags copied from Flags of the World so if you've a problem with the size ratio I'd suggest taking it up with the next Antipodean you run into.

[G.Bone]

I think I like no. 3

[Diamond]

Number 1 gets my vote. It seems the most 'logical' to me.

[DuQuense]

# 3 but what does the Yellow represent.

OK how about a Thread for POD Discussion, I've found some of the ISOTs listed fasinating.

[Leej]

You don't need to discuss making new threads just do it.

[Landshark]

These are the various candiadtes for the Britannic flag just to give an idea of what they look like by themselves.

I'd guess the gold repesents whatever gold repesents on OTL flags.

[G.Bone]

I like the one on the bottom right.

[perdedor99]

I see a possible rapport with the New Hebrides government if it doesn't deviate too much from OTL adoration for the Emperor. Also what is the status of the Home Islands?

[Diamond]

I see a possible rapport with the New Hebrides government if it doesn't deviate too much from OTL adoration for the Emperor. Also what is the status of the Home Islands?

Hey, I have the New Hebrides.

Well, there is still respect and admiration for the Emperor, but very watered down from what you'd expect in OTL. The attitude is much more on par with the common view of Britain's royal family. In its native TL, Japan never closed its doors to the Europeans, so the culture is vastly different from OTL Japan, right down to the language, which is a fusion of Japanese and English, much as OTL Tagalog is a fusion of Spanish and native Filipino languages.

I'm not sure who's got the Japanese Home Islands for SME; can't help you there. I was going to take them, but I figured it'd be more interesting to write about the effects of the Mosaic Effect on an outlying part of the Empire instead of its heart...

[Landshark]

I've got Japan and I still haven't figured out what to do with them. It's either a Peoples Democratic Republic of Japan, a Japan that never closed itself to outsiders or a completely new Japan that has a POD before 1000BC. Actually I've been thinking of putting it back into the open market for the use of better historians than me. :(

[Diamond]

Landshark: I like the PDRJ idea, or... what about a Japan that was partially or completely conquered by the Mongols?

BTW, are you Peter David Hall?!??? :) :confused:

[Landshark]

Landshark: I like the PDRJ idea, or... what about a Japan that was partially or completely conquered by the Mongols?

BTW, are you Peter David Hall?!??? :) :confused:

That depends - are you a process server?

Yes I am. It's on my public profile for heaven's sake, it's come to a fine pass when Americans are too lazy to push a button.

The PDRJ would certainly be the easiest to do, which maybe be why I find it slightly offputting. Other options would be a Japan that was part of the British Empire at some point or the Japan from my first AH short story, one which had lost the Russo-Japanese War and had ended up as a democratic constitutional monarchy. It's big rival/enemy was the Republic of Pacifica which covered the OTL US west coast and southwest.

The problem is I'm not that good a historian, I can't pull an obscure and interesting POD out of thin air and then create an unnervingly detailed world from it. That's the reason SA5's POD is so far back, it allows me to do pretty much whatever I want without going into detail.

[Diamond]

Yes I am. It's on my public profile for heaven's sake, it's come to a fine pass when Americans are too lazy to push a button.

LOL - I don't know why, but it never even occurred to me to look at your profile. Hey, thanks for giving my site some traffic. :)

The PDRJ would certainly be the easiest to do, which maybe be why I find it slightly offputting. Other options would be a Japan that was part of the British Empire at some point or the Japan from my first AH short story, one which had lost the Russo-Japanese War and had ended up as a democratic constitutional monarchy. It's big rival/enemy was the Republic of Pacifica which covered the OTL US west coast and southwest.

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing a PDRJ; it could be a very dark, very interesting nation...
If you do a Japan that was once part of the British Empire, it might have much in common with the New Hebrides, which were part of a Japan that was also a British possession. I guess it depends on what terms your Japan parts from Britain: amicable, like mine, or less-than... lol. :D

The problem is I'm not that good a historian, I can't pull an obscure and interesting POD out of thin air and then create an unnervingly detailed world from it. That's the reason SA5's POD is so far back, it allows me to do pretty much whatever I want without going into detail.

Eh, don't worry about strict plausability; there's more than 1 nation detailed so far for SME which is, shall we say, FUCKING CRAZY!!!!! It'll all come out in the wash.

[Landshark]

It's a pity Flocculencio is out of touch at the moment - he'd have been perfect for this. Anything from Anglo-Saxon World 1950 would have done.

[Landshark]

Hey, thanks for giving my site some traffic.

No problem. I was drawn there by your overwhelming manliness.

[Diamond]

It's a pity Flocculencio is out of touch at the moment - he'd have been perfect for this. Anything from Anglo-Saxon World 1950 would have done.

'Tis true. Where's he at, anyway? Haven't seen him on the boards in a while...

I was drawn there by your overwhelming manliness.

Well, yeah, I know. :D Story of my life. :eek:

[G.Bone]

Any help would be needed in contacting those whom want to particpate in SME but haven't gotten around to writing the history and all that. Please PM me if interested or would like to take over my job in the Maps and Registering Countries thread.

[DuQuense]

I've got Japan and I still haven't figured out what to do with them

How about a Japan that was divided among the Europeans like China was. The Experence would warp OTLs Japan into almost what ever you wanted.

I Hope You decide Quick. I've got a Imperial Japanese* Aircraft Carrier Qroup here for a Port Visit. Admiral Yakomoto {grandson} seens to think the "Event" is somehow My fault, I'd love to be able to send him to Somebodies Home Port.

No Invasion of China-Japan Neutral in WW2

[perdedor99]

pretty interesting development. It seems like a marriage of convenience, at least from my point of view. It seems this Lybia is as Italian as Naples or Sicily. They even share Fascist regimes but the Kingdom of Italy type is a more repressive one. Maybe a loose Union?

[perdedor99]

It was my first choice but was already taken. Do you mind if I take it and join it to Asia 11(Karafuto). This Japanese Empire is a nuclear armed nation that rules over OTL 1932 japanese borders but proyects power thru economic domination of their fellow Asian nations, especially Phillipines, Indonesia, Vietnam and Malayan Federation. It will be a shock for them to find japanese dominated nations in some of that areas after the event.

[Landshark]

This is one of Snajay's last messages from four weeks back:

This is going on indefinite hiatusas I'm moving house this weekend, start an internship next Monday and just broke up with my girlfriend. Lots of changes.

Am I the only one who uses stuff like the member list?

How about a Japan that was divided among the Europeans like China was. The Experence would warp OTLs Japan into almost what ever you wanted.

I Hope You decide Quick. I've got a Imperial Japanese* Aircraft Carrier Qroup here for a Port Visit. Admiral Yakomoto {grandson} seens to think the "Event" is somehow My fault, I'd love to be able to send him to Somebodies Home Port.

No Invasion of China-Japan Neutral in WW2

I was thinking about Japans last night and was considering one that came from a TL like Diamond's Kirghiz(sp) one. somewhere where the Europeans have their own problems and Japan is opened to the world by an expansionist India.

However:

It was my first choice but was already taken. Do you mind if I take it and join it to Asia 11(Karafuto). This Japanese Empire is a nuclear armed nation that rules over OTL 1932 japanese borders but proyects power thru economic domination of their fellow Asian nations, especially Phillipines, Indonesia, Vietnam and Malayan Federation. It will be a shock for them to find japanese dominated nations in some of that areas after the event.

If you want it it's yours. I missed out on both my first choices so I know what that's like and I'd rather have Japan used than sitting idle waiting for me to think something up. I only really took it because of it's potential for being a major power, that and the fact that island monarchies with large navies appeal to me for some strange reason.

I think I'll put in a claim for Asia 2 though, Anglo Saxon world's Singapour had a major carrier navy and there's no reason why SME's shouldn't.

[perdedor99]

Thanks Landshark. Will try to post this nation info as soon as I can. Against thanks.

[DuQuense]

Do you mind if I take it and join it to Asia 11(Karafuto).

Remember to mention a minor difference between the two, [close but not identical]

See my NY 9-11 ISOT in ASB

[Landshark]

Is there an alternate name for India that starts with a V?

[Diamond]

Is there an alternate name for India that starts with a V?
Vijayanagara?
It was a culture in southern India in... IIRC 1300AD or thereabouts. An Indian state with the same name (but a later incarnation) is the 'bad guys' in the home TL Kirghiz came from.
No reason why you can't use the same name; I'm sure what you come up with will bear little resemblence to 'my' Vijayanagara.

[Grey Wolf]

Is there an alternate name for India that starts with a V?

Interesting question

I have no idea

The only names I know are the obvious ones

But it has to be noted that in reading the Wargames Foundry books on areas and peoples oif the Himalayas, N India etc, that often they had three names - the one the British used, the one the Chinese or Tibettans used (often their overlords) and the one they used to refer to themselves.

Grey Wolf

[Landshark]

Vijayanagara?
It was a culture in southern India in... IIRC 800AD or thereabouts. An Indian state with the same name (but a later incarnation) is the 'bad guys' in the home TL Kirghiz came from.
No reason why you can't use the same name; I'm sure what you come up with will bear little resemblence to 'my' Vijayanagara.

That sounds like it.

I thinking a unified India without the Moghuls(sp) or the Europeans. One it's TL's Great Powers along with the Byzantine Empire maybe.

[Diamond]

That sounds like it.

I thinking a unified India without the Moghuls(sp) or the Europeans. One it's TL's Great Powers along with the Byzantine Empire maybe.

That'd be cool. I wonder how Kirghiz will react to a non-fascist/racist Indian nation with the same name...

[Landshark]

That'd be cool. I wonder how Kirghiz will react to a non-fascist/racist Indian nation with the same name...

I meant to say; the Kirghiz ATL sounds fascinating.

[Landshark]

I've just been googling for Indian history and found this:

Vijayanagara (http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/andhra/vnagar.htm)


So this would seem to be the oppotune place for a POD. I'll have to look up the location of the capital in case it's left behind.

For Oceania 2 I'd like to use Flocculencio's name for Singapore if no one has any objections? I'm figuring something similar to Sanjay's Indian Confederacy and Disporia but with a twist. Maybe this India was a huge empire, a South Asian Rome that eventually collapsed leaving a looser Indian commonwealth and a number of successor states behind.

[Diamond]

Both sound good; should give some nice flavor to that part of the world...

RE the Kirghiz TL/world, I'll post a brief TL later on in the 'left behind' thread; there's a map in there now though.

[Landshark]

I'll need something to keep the Europeans occupied while the Indians are empire building.

[Diamond]

I'll need something to keep the Europeans occupied while the Indians are empire building.

Well, you can always go the 'worse Black Death' route; that's what I did. Or maybe you could have a stronger Byzantium facing off against western Christianity while the moslems concentrate exclusively on Africa? Either way, Europe wouldn't be in any shape to explore the world, much less prevent India from doing it.

[Landshark]

Well, you can always go the 'worse Black Death' route; that's what I did. Or maybe you could have a stronger Byzantium facing off against western Christianity while the moslems concentrate exclusively on Africa? Either way, Europe wouldn't be in any shape to explore the world, much less prevent India from doing it.

I think I'll go for a worse breakup of the Western Roman Empire, at least for one of them.

I'd also like to ask if it's okay if I use the names of some of Flocculencio's Indian Disporia countries from Anglo-Saxon World as Vijayanagaran colonies and dominions? They wouldn't be appearing in SME just in the listing and maybe mentioned in passing as being left behind. It's just damn difficult to come up with Indian sounding names for places.

[Leej]

For my India I need some sort of map of the Indian states, I'm going to go down the route of modern civilization devloping in India YRS style though need to work out how.

[Landshark]

This one any good:

India (http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/india/india-political-map.htm)

[tom]

Again I ask for the usage history and status of nuclear weapons in your TLs. This might be the single most important event in a TLs geopolitical background.
Both my regions had "knock the planet back a century" scale wars, one in 1802 and one in 1962. One has no nukes (but could build them in a few years) the other, left to itself, could not rebuild them in a lifetime...maybe a millennium.

[perdedor99]

The kingdom of Italy TL saw the use of nuclear weapons at the very end of the Second Great War(1940-1946). The italians do not have any nuclear weapons in their arsenal but they have plenty of chemical and biological weapons.

The Soviet Union and Empire of Japan never have seen the use of nuclear weapons in combat. The parts of the USSR transported only have at the most 10 to 15 tactical nukes. The Empire of Japan is another story. They have over 200 ICBM, the mayority of them in subs. The Empire see nuclear weapons as deterrents to aggression and not as offensive weapons.

[Leej]

New England area is fully nuclear capable, it used the first one in 1919 IIRC.
Celtica doesn't have nukes though if forced to it could develop them in a decade or so, it has all the know how needed.
Sri lanka won't be up to the tech level for nukes nor will Korea.
Australia never had nukes it just had them dropped on top of it.

[Landshark]

The Dominion of Australia(SA5), the Empire of the North(EU8), the Vijayanagara Empire(AS9) and the Republic of Sinhapur(OC2) all come from non-nuclear TLs, though they all might be capable of developing the bomb if they had to.

[Diamond]

New Hebrides/Kalimantan/Java (OC1/3) have nuclear stockpiles as part of their ongoing cold war with the Franco-Chinese Alliance. The mountains of Kalimantan house a missile silo facility that has around 40 ICBMs; there are also 7 missile subs in the waters between New Hebrides and Kalimantan. Most of the islands' power is supplied by fusion, nuclear, and hydroelectric plants.

Hispaniola (NA14) has the know-how to build nukes, but not the resources or money. They'd always relied on their large neighbor and ally, the Kingdom of Virginia, to protect them. Hispaniola does have two large nuclear power plants, one near Havana and one near San Domingo.

Kirghiz (AS1) will need at least 75 years before its able to even think about nuclear technology and/or weapons; its still at roughly OTL 1910 levels of technology, but even farther behind in the physics necessary for something of this magnitude.

[DuQuense]

NAFTZ [NA8] went the cold fusion & electric route, they are ahead of us in the electronic fields, but has never even heard of E=MC{2} thro once they are introducted they have the industry potential [Manhattan scale project]
Hesperia [Africa 5,6] is still marveling at Radium, maybe in 50 years.
Nigeria/Congo, maybe next millimium.
East Sweden [Finland] Has several nuclear power plants, and all the book learning nessacary, but no bombs.
Sweden, like NAFTZ may be able using Finland's knowhow but probally won't bother.
Siberia [Asia 2] ?Can you make a bomb with stone tools & bronze knifes?

[DuQuense]

Proffessor Smith, head of the Nuclear program at XX University, looked at the Reports, and shook his head. All tests had been done dozens of times, but the results were just Impossible. at OO;OO hours When what was being called "The Event" happened, all Radiotivity had ceased. Radium, Uramium, as inert as so much lead. Then at excally 12;00 hr, like God had thrown a light switch, The Radiotivity had returned. It was Impossibe with all known Laws, But then maybe the ASBs know other ones.

[G.Bone]

Tech in my countries->

Dominion of Chile-Argentina=> Have the ability to generate atomic bombs but prefers to use it for electricity rather than bombs. What they use instead is biological weapons, and is very talented with that.

GFR & the Republic of Columbia=> one nuclear power plant in Columbia but that's being under construction. Everything else is conventional warfare of '04

Australia=> did have atomic bombs but that was lost in the Event. Has made some steps towards biological weapons but tends to lean on conventional warfare. (they are rather talented in the detection field though)

[Aedh Rua]

None of my countries have nukes. They know about them, and have the capability of using nuclear power, but nuclear weapons have been outlawed since they were first tested in the Ulatis Nouiolitawijâs and Rîgion Litawijâs TLs, and were used on a small (OTL WWII) scale in the Ulatis Windodengwijâs/Rîgion Noraci TL, but neither nation had any stationed on its territory at the time of the Event.

Since there is at least one nuclear powered sub or nuclear power plant in each nation, it wouldn't be too hard for them to develop nukes. They've all got fissionables. Figure a year or two for the Rîgion Litawijâs, especially if Noracon gives them plans, which is a dead certainty in any crisis. The other nations would take longer, because of much lower industrial capacity. Noracon would take about three years, Windodengwijâ about five, and Nouiolitawijâ about seven to ten. This is with existing industrial capacity. Economic growth could change that, as could economic crisis. An H-bomb will be much harder. None of these nations has ever so much as considered developing one.

Also note that, while all nations have lost access to resources, trade partners, and/or industry in the Event, none of them are as oil-dependent as OTL. The Middle East in these TLs is controlled by a hostile nation, or is extremely politically unstable, and so, while there is some oil-dependency, all of these worlds use methanol fuel (mostly produced from human and animal waste), nuclear power, and energy sources like geothermal and wind much more than OTL. Nuke plants tend to be _exceedingly_ carefully designed, and nuclear waste is _always_ reprocessed into more fuel. This is the result of disapproving Druids looking over the shoulders of the nuclear power industry in each nation..........

[Tetsu]

My country actually isn't a country, but rather a province of the Norse Kingdom. Iceland is the Norse's chief military/naval base, and the Norse do possess nuclear weapons, but precious few are actually stationed on Iceland. A few Norse nuclear submarines (nuclear powered AND capable) were in Iceland's waters and ISOTed along with the province. Nuclear weapons, in it's world, are more prolific; with 11 major world powers possessing nuclear stockpiles, such as the Byzantine Empire, Russia, Ghana Empire, and Persia. Nearly all nations, except for a few small island-based nations posses a nuclear program.

Nuclear weapons have been used in warfare in TTL. The first instance was during the Second Great War, in which China used a small nuclear-tipped missile to destroy an Incan carrier group in the South Pacific.

Oil power is not as widely used in TTL, chiefly because Arabia possess most of the world's known oil, and throughout most of history the military and political alliances of this world have been Dar al-Islam versus those opposing. There are, however, several very large oil drilling operations in Siberia, Alaska, and rather extensive operations in the Aztec Empire. Electricity is the main source of power TTL, be it for automobiles, or everyday household needs. Oil based fuels are usually limited to certain types of tanks and for jets, although pulse detonation engines are very close on the horizon, maybe within five to ten years.

For sake of SME's rules, I bumped down the technology to ten years more advanced that OTL, but in reality the timeline was anywhere from fifty to seventy years (maybe even 100) years more advanced that OTL. The first jet powered plane was flown in 1858, for example. This tech edge is due to the fact that the Dark Ages never really set in due to the much larger and more threatening Islam, plus the survival of Byzantium.

As for my country, Iceland, the population is fairly low, but the majority is military personel. Six aircraft carriers, as well as dozens of battleships, nuke subs, and other warhips were ISOTed. Keflavik is Iceland's main airbase, where easily seventy fighters and a few long-range bombers are stationed. Iceland only has ten nuclear weapons stationed on it, but the nuke subs possess more.

[DuQuense]

I was reading Tom's Russain wasteland, [eu19] after the CMW, and I wondered if the Nuke Winter, had triggered a ice age on his world. I then thought about mySiberia with no Aguculture, and realized. "This ISOTing is going to do a number on the Climate." Messed up ocean Currents, differing Storm System, at the time of EVENT, Even different levels of CO2 in the Astrosphere. Summer Blizzards, North Atlantic Gales, Funny jet stream, tornadoes, And Just for Fun a Cat 5-6? Cyclone forming 200 miles off the tip of the Baja Coast. Heading WNW at 25 MPH. This is my stated reason for holding My Japanese Admiral in Port a couple extra days.

[DuQuense]

OK I,m writing my first stories, and need to know. Are whe still starting July 12th, and writing catch up. or are whe resetting the start. If you wonder what time it is in your ISOT check this out
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html

I'm thinking at excacttly XX:00 hrs on xx/xx/2004 a wall of light appeared around ??? following the land Borders and a line 100 miles to sea. It lasted only 60 seconds, but oh what changes it caused.

I am very open to Other suguestions to how to describe this.

[Diamond]

Apart from setting the actual date/time of the Mosaic Event, I don't think we need to play hard and fast as far as keeping up with the time, unless someone wants to be the official clock-keeper. :) I for one am not going to have time to update my stories every day (probably more like every three or four days).

[GBW]

BTW, who's going to take the part of OTL's United Kingdom?

[Justin Green]

The world the FSR of Spain came from had the knowledge of Nuclear power and of weapons, but they were relatively new things. The first were tested by both the Union of Slavic Socialist Republics and the United American States in the late 1970's. On the other hand chemical and especially biological weapons were used and deveoloped far earlier then OTL. In the FSR world the United States dropped Pneumatic Plague carrting bombs throughout Japan to end the Great Pacific War. In about half a year the totol population of the Islands dropped 73%. Nukes are actually seen as a safer alternative to Bio warfare as no nuke has yet been dropped in a war.

The FSR has nuclear technology resembling that of Japan in comparison to the United States. They do not posses them however but could in less than a year if neccesary.

[tom]

DuQuense:
There was a downward spike for a year or two (not quite nuclear winter...more like nuclear autumn), then recovery. CO2 levels are less (four decades of industrial emissions mostly lost), so the climate is a bit cooler now. Mithras exhausted its oil and petroleum and depleted its coal, so the CO2 levels and temperatures are noticably higher.

[tom]

What are the earliest and latest PoDs so far? Mine are 312 and 1962.

[Landshark]

Now I think about it the earliest POD might be mine. Instead of Romulus killing his brother and founding Rome I've got it the other way round with Remus being the survivor and founder of the city of Reme, (thought I have to admit I nicked the idea from one of Terry Prattchet's early books), and the rise of the different but oddly familar Reman Empire.

[DuQuense]

Got it covered - 10.000 BP No Farming in my Siberia- One Day before EVENT Hesperia [AFR 6]

[Landshark]

We have, excepting the single nationed Antartica, our first full continent:

SOUTH AMERICA

SA 1: Columbian Republic, OSA - G.Bone
SA 2: Amazonia - American Samurai
SA 3: Guyanuan Federated Republic, OSA - G.Bone
SA 4: Incan Empire (Also SA6) - GBW
SA 5: Dominion of Australia - Landshark
SA 6: Incan Empire (Also SA4) -GBW
SA 7: Dominion of Chile-Argentina - G.Bone
SA 8: Outer Territories - G.Bone
SA 9: Dominion of Chile-Argentina*, Dominion of the Falkland Islands - G.Bone

[Justin Green]

My POD is that Miguel, the son of the king of Portugal and Isabella, the eldest daughter of the Catholic Monarchs survives. He inheirets the thrones of Iberia and the Hapsburgs are considerably weaker leading to the temporary fall of Vienna to the Turks. They move their capital to Antwerp. Also the Italian wars end with the Spanish the strongest in the peninsula with the Pope their puppet. This eventually leads to a world were catholicism is limited to Italy, Spain, Poland, the British isles and the lands they colonized.

[Diamond]

What are the earliest and latest PoDs so far? Mine are 312 and 1962.

Mine are:

c.1200 AD (Kirghiz)
1555 AD (New Hebrides)
1675 AD (Hispaniola)

[Tetsu]

My POD is 732 A.D. for Norse Iceland.

[G.Bone]

My POD's

1920's [GFR & Republic of Columbia]
1840's [PKH & Australia]
1680's? Napoleonic Era [DCA & other regions]

[Leej]

commonwealth pod- sometime in 1700s with France becoming more interested in Quebec.
romania pod- second crusade goes the right way, I think that was in 1250 though I could be wrong
australia pod- early 60s I'd guess
celtica pod- sometime when caeser was kicking butt in gaul (55bc?)

sri lanka pod- unknown...

[Justin Green]

Okay. I think I would like to figure out the relations of my country with yours.
The Federated Soveriegn Republics of Spain is a Federal Union. Since its founding the member republics have seen their power slowly diminish as morer power has been invested with the national government. In the FSR world it was closely aligned with Great Britain, Italy, Its former colonies, and had friendly relations with the USSR(russia). On the other hand its has had a long history of conflict with both France and Hapsburg Germany, and Spain lost the last world war to both of them.

So anyone have any ideas? Alliances have to be found somewhere.

[DuQuense]

Justin Green

How do you feel about Fundimentalism, My Spainish Morocco needs Freinds. Providing the Office of the Inquisition agrees, of Course.

[GBW]

Shouldn't diplomacy wait until we've actually started SME? When will that be btw?

[DuQuense]

I still think sunday [no work] aug 1 [new month-new begining] 1200 GMT [0800 EST].

[G.Bone]

how about this sunday? How about that?

[perdedor99]

IMHO we should wait at least another week to try to fill the empty spaces. China and Egypt have the potencial to be very powerful players in the politics of SME.

[Leej]

I thought China was taken?
I would have wanted that...

[Michael]

way around the character limit

[perdedor99]

what will be the reaction of Lybia to a different but still Fascist Italy? Italy is very dependant of Lybian oil and could be force to make the same decision Japan made in 1941. Unlikely, but never know how events will unfold.

[Diamond]

I think we should wait another week, but no longer than that, otherwise this whole thing will shrivel up and die just like the first Mosaic Earth.

And I also want to suggest again, that we have a separate thread for each continent to list the countries instead of having them all lumped into one thread in a random mishmash. That would be 7 threads (NA, SA, EU, AF, ME, AS, OC), plus another thread for 'Unclaimed Territories' (which would basically just list the unclaimed zones and give a general outline of whatever we decide should go there). Antarctica (Yamania) probably doesn't need its own thread; it could just be put in the Oceania thread.

[tom]

G.Bone:
I will be on vacation the first week of August, at a mountain resort, so I would really like this to wait a week to give stragglers a chance (someone recently asked what was going on, for example...maybe he will join).
Everybody:
I will probably not write stuff about EU 19 (too depressing). If you want to explore it, it can have just about any post-holocaust society you want (it has dozens) but try sending me the story for vetting first. Something to keep in mind is that travel is still by foot - very few horses survived the war and avoided being eaten afterwords, and it takes a long time to breed populations of large animals. Agriculture is almost always by slavery as a result of this as well. People do not like strangers...village contact is commonly military, and crude swords made from cannibalized metal is the soldier's weapon (although a couple "advanced" areas have redeveloped crossbows).

[DuQuense]

perdedor99
As the Guiding Space Bat, I Understand that while they will defend themselves [like me, they believe in the theory of Massive retaladation] They are more interested in setting up trading relations. All my Areas have large Merchant Marines.

[DuQuense]

I am interested in tom's EU 19 [ reminds me of Adam's "Horse Clan" books] Does any have ideas on how they will react to my Siberian Nomads. The nomads will continue their traditional routes [Border Clans, & tribes] thru this new land.

[DuQuense]

posted by Diamond-Hey Tom: my nation of Kirghiz (AS1) is right next to your Russia; do you have any objections to me writing a story about a Kirghizi exploratory expedition into Russia?

I Plan to have my East Sweden Send S-4 [U2's?] Reconisance Planes over the Area. ?What remains of St Pete, and Moscow?.

I also have a Nador? Rodina naval Base on the Kola Penusula [Murmansk]. any one have the link to the Snow Bear/Fire? threads.

[perdedor99]

How your nomads will react to japanese expeditions to the Katmatcha peninsula and the Yakulst basin areas? And to Soviets pushing north into Siberia? The japanese are in for the economic reasons and while they maybe will try to claim the Kuriles and Katmatcha as colonies, they will build trade post in the Siberian coast and interior. The Soviet will try to push into the interior due to their need for raw resources and any resistance most likely will be crush severely. Good gods and evil gods? A two persons different view of the same event, one a nomad the other japanese, perhaps?

In regard to Italy my take is a loose union with Lybia but sadly I see my Italy as the minor partner in that deal. You have the fuel that runs my economy and both our militaries are big but your have a slight technological edge.

[Diamond]

As of right now, NA1 (Alaska/northwest Canada) is unclaimed; if it remains so, your nations might consider colonization efforts there? :D

[perdedor99]

In the Japanese Empire TL the Cold War against Communist was a going effort, so Japan was the main partner in Asia of the United States. IIRC a couple of nations ISOTED are part of so called United States. Recognition to this US's claims to a state of their Union? for economic concesions of course. :)

[G.Bone]

okay...how about next week sunday as starting date?

[GBW]

Notice to all North American nations: the Unionist terrorist organization from the ISA, who commits terrorist attacks in the hope of restoring a united North America, is likely going to try and continue their activities in SME. The nations they'll be interested in, outside of the ISA, are Ulatis Nouiolitawijas, Empire of California, New Saxonland and New Leoland, The Commonwealth, Southern Republic of America, Southwest Confederate Republic, Pacific Republic and the CSA. Their interest will end at the Empire of Mexico and the old Mexican border. The owners of these nations will have to consider just how much underground support the Unionists will gain in their territory, especially if these countries once controlled most of the continent or just have political instability.

Also, the air pirates based in the ISA are likely going to see great oppurtunities in SME and find regions around the world that have no political stability and/or undeveloped areas they can set up bases in and raid shipping and communities. The most likely places I can think of right now are NA 1, Tom's Russia and the post-apocalyptic Australia (Leej's?). They'll also send out feelers to various governments to issue them letters of marque to attack rival nations' shipping, communities, etc, and using their nations as bases for it. They won't be officially under the government's protection outside of their borders and can be written off if they're captured or killed.

[Leej]

Australia has no central government though it is pretty rough, its quite a Mad Max/Fallout style world where only the strong survive so everyone is fully armed up most with pre-apocolypse weapons. Also there is nothing of value there worth conquering.

[GBW]

Australia has no central government though it is pretty rough, its quite a Mad Max/Fallout style world where only the strong survive so everyone is fully armed up most with pre-apocolypse weapons. Also there is nothing of value there worth conquering.

Yes, but they'd likely make some sort of alliance with some group or other and use that Australia as a base in which to raid into the other countries on the continent as well as shipping around the Indonesia area. Don't tell me these groups wouldn't like to share in the plunder from the more civilized nations surrounding them. :) Besides, these pirates would likely have at least one military-type zeppelin and aircraft, as well as arsenals of their own.

[tom]

I am interested in tom's EU 19 [ reminds me of Adam's "Horse Clan" books] Does any have ideas on how they will react to my Siberian Nomads. The nomads will continue their traditional routes [Border Clans, & tribes] thru this new land.
Variable, but usually badly. Visitors are generally considered invaders and treated accordingly. Remember horses are just beginning to come back into use.
Plan to have my East Sweden Send S-4 [U2's?] Reconisance Planes over the Area. ?What remains of St Pete, and Moscow?.
Of the cities themselves? The tritinite looks a kind of sick green, like nasal mucus. Some ways out you have the usual bands, hordes and settlements.
If noone wants NA 1 it would be good new territory for New Saxonland. Same for EU 14, though the Rooskies will be slow to realize this.

[Leej]

Yes, but they'd likely make some sort of alliance with some group or other and use that Australia as a base in which to raid into the other countries on the continent as well as shipping around the Indonesia area. Don't tell me these groups wouldn't like to share in the plunder from the more civilized nations surrounding them. :) Besides, these pirates would likely have at least one military-type zeppelin and aircraft, as well as arsenals of their own.

Yeah I'm sure there will be some warlord who would consider something with them if they showed up in the area (it seems a bit far away though).
I would imagine the Australian warlords would try and spread out across the continent anyway.


Maybe we should all have a chat session on IRC sometime to work everything out so we can get things done quicker?

[tom]

GBW:
New Leoland and New Saxonland controlled their territory for more than four hundred years, and are as stable as the United States OTL.
Russia is an interesting idea...with technology they can keep off the natives and have bases. Nothing for them to loot is left, however.

[GBW]

New Leoland and New Saxonland controlled their territory for more than four hundred years, and are as stable as the United States OTL.
Russia is an interesting idea...with technology they can keep off the natives and have bases. Nothing for them to loot is left, however.

I thought New Saxonland used to control the northeast in their universe? Wasn't their old capital at OTL's New York City? I'm sure every country has its... 'extremists' who would like to see their nations restored to their old borders. The Unionists might be able to find native New Saxons and New Leolanders to sympathize with their cause.

As for distances involved with the air pirates traveling to Australia, Russia, or other places, they'll find a way.

[Diamond]

Maybe we should all have a chat session on IRC sometime to work everything out so we can get things done quicker?

That's the best suggestion I've heard since we started this whole thing.

[G.Bone]

AIM sounds good?

[DuQuense]

Fellow NA space bats I suguest that we agree to put a no Columbus [or others] in NA1. this would give us the American aboringals [Lakotas, Blackfoot ect] in the south with Inuits in the North. I cast one vote for this idea.

By G.Bone Umm...were the Lakota even in Canada? And doesn't this suggestion belong in the Smelounge thread?

I put it there as it involed regertering a Area. The reply goes in Smelounge.

[Aedh Rua]

Notice to all North American nations: the Unionist terrorist organization from the ISA, who commits terrorist attacks in the hope of restoring a united North America, is likely going to try and continue their activities in SME. The nations they'll be interested in, outside of the ISA, are Ulatis Nouiolitawijas, Empire of California, New Saxonland and New Leoland, The Commonwealth, Southern Republic of America, Southwest Confederate Republic, Pacific Republic and the CSA. Their interest will end at the Empire of Mexico and the old Mexican border. The owners of these nations will have to consider just how much underground support the Unionists will gain in their territory, especially if these countries once controlled most of the continent or just have political instability.

Also, the air pirates based in the ISA are likely going to see great oppurtunities in SME and find regions around the world that have no political stability and/or undeveloped areas they can set up bases in and raid shipping and communities. The most likely places I can think of right now are NA 1, Tom's Russia and the post-apocalyptic Australia (Leej's?). They'll also send out feelers to various governments to issue them letters of marque to attack rival nations' shipping, communities, etc, and using their nations as bases for it. They won't be officially under the government's protection outside of their borders and can be written off if they're captured or killed.

Well, the Unionists may have big trouble operating a terrorist cell in Nouiolitawija. See, about the only languages our two TLs have in common are Classical Chinese and Ancient Greek. With a POD 2500 years ago, damn near every language, most social conventions, materials, modes of dress, all are different. Unless they can learn Gaulish mighty quick, I tend to think they will stick out like sore thumbs. Come to think of it, how can we have this conversation? <g> There is also a fairly powerful secret police organization, the Epates Dedmas (Knights of Sacred Law, _very_ loosely translated), and people of status below roughly middle class have fairly stringent travel regulations. Even people of higher status have to carry ID cards, though lack of such a card usually just means an embarassing phone call to confirm identity, and a ticket. Fake cards or unregistered foreigners, however, are in _big_ trouble.

I suppose they could still shoot rockets across the border or something.

The air pirates, OTOH, are likely to be a major pain in the ass. Once we break down the language barrier, we may want to cooperate to eliminate them. Or at least to keep them somewhat under control if outright elimination isn't possible.

[Diamond]

DuQuense: re your no Columbian contact for NA1 - you may as well just have a primitive no mankind at all area, because as soon as the residents of a no Columbian area come in contact with the Mosaic'd areas of NA, they're all going to die of plague anyway.

RE chat conversation: My AH site is an EZboard and has a chatroom.

http://p086.ezboard.com/btheworldnextdoor

If anyone wants to talk it'd probably be easier just to go there at a set time rather than try to set up an AIM room or whatever. How's that sound?

[GBW]

Well, the Unionists may have big trouble operating a terrorist cell in Nouiolitawija. See, about the only languages our two TLs have in common are Classical Chinese and Ancient Greek. With a POD 2500 years ago, damn near every language, most social conventions, materials, modes of dress, all are different. Unless they can learn Gaulish mighty quick, I tend to think they will stick out like sore thumbs. Come to think of it, how can we have this conversation? <g> There is also a fairly powerful secret police organization, the Epates Dedmas (Knights of Sacred Law, _very_ loosely translated), and people of status below roughly middle class have fairly stringent travel regulations. Even people of higher status have to carry ID cards, though lack of such a card usually just means an embarassing phone call to confirm identity, and a ticket. Fake cards or unregistered foreigners, however, are in _big_ trouble.

The Unionists would try to enlist local people as recruiters, operatives, etc, and have established themselves quite well throughout the nations of North America in their TL. That includes colleges and universities where they would have people who would likely know those two languages. The Unionists will likely send scholars and such to Nouiolitawija, probably under the guise of learning about changes in languages, history, etc, and discreetly begin looking to recruit that way. They're very well organized, well funded and experienced in this sort've thing and are quite good at avoiding notice from the authorities. They'll find a variety of ways of infiltrating a country through official and unofficial channels.

The air pirates, OTOH, are likely to be a major pain in the ass. Once we break down the language barrier, we may want to cooperate to eliminate them. Or at least to keep them somewhat under control if outright elimination isn't possible.

Well, that'll wait until SME actually starts and diplomacy begins.

[Landshark]

If I can get the listings for Vijayanagara and Sinhapur completed tomorrow I might take either NA1 or NA11 as these Unionists sound like they need a good twatting. At the moment The Empire of the North (EU8) is completed but I've still to work out population and ISOTed military assets. The other two need more backgound but I've got the basics of their worlds worked out.

Could anyone suggest a good non Columbian POD or ATL for either of the American ones?

[Imajin]

A hurricane blows up and forces Columbus to turn back/sinks his ship? The second possiblitly could be used to "prove" the earth was flat, and from then on no one trys to go past the ocean?

[Landshark]

There's one idea that might be different but I'm not sure if it's a cop out or not, as it'd produce a ATL so different that it might as well be classed as a fantasy world.

Sometime around 500 B.C, something causes the proportion of male to female births to drop, so that within about ten generations while the overall population of the world is the same only one in ten is male.

Flash forward to the 20th century and the world still has all the problems of ours but there are women in charge while men have been reduced to the position of "stud animals".

So what do you think?

[DuQuense]

perdedor99 How your nomads will react to japanese expeditions to the Katmatcha peninsula and the Yakulst basin areas?

They are quite familar with Traders coming from the Yellow River, Mesopatian, and Medertarian Bronze areas. As long as you are "just trading" they wouldn't have a problem.

The Virgin Feild desease problom may go both ways as they have been Interacting with there herd aminal for thaousands of years.

PS -I understand the Japanese love Bronze art, be advised that My Nomads have been dealing with those sneaky Traders for thousands of years, They know the Value of their goods.

[DuQuense]

G.Bone turned down my German South pacific, so I'll post it as a thread in the main board. Of Course if thing go rite I won't have ...[Snerk alert] :p

[tom]

GBW:
The secondary capitol at Jeru (OTL Salt Lake City) is doing as well as one could hope at taking up control...the secondary capitol was meant to serve as a backup in case of terrorist nuke, super-tsunami, earthquake, whatever taking out the main capitol, so this is not as far fetched as it might sound.

[GBW]

The secondary capitol at Jeru (OTL Salt Lake City) is doing as well as one could hope at taking up control...the secondary capitol was meant to serve as a backup in case of terrorist nuke, super-tsunami, earthquake, whatever taking out the main capitol, so this is not as far fetched as it might sound.

I'm not doubting the political stability of New Saxonland, I'm just saying that there might be people within the country, and New Leoland, that might be sympathetic to the Unionists and might join them. People of 'extreme' political views or beliefs that might want to see a united North America as the Unionists do.

[tom]

Yeah, I guess every nation except the Vatican (and probably them too) has their extremists.
These Unionists sound like bad medicine.

[Diamond]

I want to post at least the first part of a story set in the New Hebrides. It is (so far) all pre-Mosaic Event, so it shouldn't screw anything up. Should I start a new thread for it, or just post it in the existing Stories thread?

And... I think we've got it pretty well nailed down that the Event will occur at 12 noon GMT. But ON WHICH DAY??????????? Or does it really even matter...

[GBW]

I want to post at least the first part of a story set in the New Hebrides. It is (so far) all pre-Mosaic Event, so it shouldn't screw anything up. Should I start a new thread for it, or just post it in the existing Stories thread?

I'd think the existing Stories thread is good.

And... I think we've got it pretty well nailed down that the Event will occur at 12 noon GMT. But ON WHICH DAY??????????? Or does it really even matter...

August 1 seems to be the most popular date.

[Nosb]

Reichskommissariat Kaukasus will most likely launch forays into tribal Russia just to it’s North as soon as possible. Its first big problems will probably be food shortages (can be solved by denying Slavs food), followed by possible local rebellion and sabotage (ongoing, but without the German heartland, a lot more hardy to put down). Are there any other Nazi, Nazi-friendly, or extreme pro-German countries that are interested in alliance.

[DuQuense]

RE the Union Terrorist, Ever since those Hindu Fundamentalists flow two Cargo planes loaded with Explosives into the Parliment & Big Ben, on 9-11, the NAFTZ has been United behind the British Empire and it's War on Terror.

2nd- to whoever has NA 13 ?IS there a Canal?

[Diamond]

2nd- to whoever has NA 13 ?IS there a Canal?

NA 13 is strategic to, I would think, many American nations. Whoever has it needs to post his listing for it or return it to the 'pool'.

[perdedor99]

I was going for the "gods" thing but if they are accustom to traders from distant lands that bid is out of the window. Thanks for the info.

[GBW]

Yeah, I guess every nation except the Vatican (and probably them too) has their extremists.
These Unionists sound like bad medicine.

Definitely. They've been a problem for the ISA's North America ever since 1930 and nobody's ever really been able to really catch them on a large-scale.

RE the Union Terrorist, Ever since those Hindu Fundamentalists flow two Cargo planes loaded with Explosives into the Parliment & Big Ben, on 9-11, the NAFTZ has been United behind the British Empire and it's War on Terror.

The Unionists aren't your typical religious extremist terrorists, though. They're not even like the Bolshevik or Anarchist 'bomb-throwers' either. Some of them don't even have extreme political views of the traditional kind and just believe in a united North America. That's what makes them really dangerous, they can be acceptable to a lot more than just one small percentage of the population. They haven't even claimed responsibility for all of their attacks and have covered up their tracks so well on some that nobody's quite sure that it was the Unionists. Their terrorist attacks aren't just for show all of the time either, they'll arrange assasinations and attacks just to further their agenda somewhere or destabilize a country. As Tom said, every country has its extremists and people of certain views, as I'm sure the NAFTZ has. Even in OTL, nations who are fighting the War On Terror have their own domestic terrorists at home.

The Unionists won't start maing any 'overt' operations, meaning terrorist attacks/assasinations/etc, immediately. Instead, they'll likely take a few months at least to get themselves established in the new nations of North America.

[GBW]

Name: Siam aka The Empire of Siam
Flag: http://www.alternatehistory.com/Dis...read.php?t=4298
Capital: Bangkok
Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Technology: Similar to OTL Japan
Population: 3,321,345,000 (Approxiamte)

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Did I read that right? Over three billion? With a B? How approximate is that? Even OTL's China only has about one and a half billion people. Do they have starving masses while an upper class enjoys the technology similar to OTL's Japan? I'd think they'd have to import a lot of food to have the quality of life in their country even roughly even enough to avoid being a humanitarian disaster.

[Leej]

For chat what time- 6pm GMT on Sunday? That seems OKish to me, it'd be afternoon for all of us (yanks and euros)

[G.Bone]

on what praytell? I've got AIM but not yahoo.

Oh and Okinawa is part of Japan and not China.

[Leej]

On IRC.
die non believers

[Nosb]

If I understand correctly Okinawa, but not Formosa(Taiwan), was part of Japan in the Chinese Empire TL? No Chinese-Japanese war in 1894-95? Can you give your answer in the smelounge? Thanks in advance

You understand correctly. The POD is 1898 so there was a Chinese-Japanese war in 1894-1895. China took (was given) back Taiwan after WW2 . Okinawa was retained by Japan (as in OTL)

[perdedor99]

Formosa was part of the Japanese Empire in their TL, but we will recognize yours rights to the island as long as our rights to the Okinawa chain are recognized. You're a big player in the politics of the area and hope to keep foreign relations with your nation on the cordial side.

PS. The Empire hates Communists with a passion, it you catch my drift :D

[DuQuense]

PS. The Empire hates Communists with a passion, it you catch my drift

Whe have the National Socalists in the Cacuses, and the USSR in Mongolia,Manchuria. ?Who else? do we have, with Socalist/Communist Countries.

[DuQuense]

Diamond Great Story, One Question


As if on cue, his radar began picking up small objects some miles above and behind him – the Leader’s forward scout drones, constantly roving ahead of the massive space station like a pack of hunting wolves.

Sunday, August 1, 2004, at 12:00:00 UTC time =Manila Sun 8:00 PM

?So any chance that the station is in a 12 hour orbit, and will be ISOTED with?

[G.Bone]

What's IRC? Do I have to register with it?

[Diamond]

?So any chance that the station is in a 12 hour orbit, and will be ISOTED with?

I thought about it, but no. In essense, that'd be like taking on another zone/country, and I'm already going to be pressed for time with the 3 I have.

Thanks for the compliment BTW. :)

[Nosb]

Formosa was part of the Japanese Empire in their TL, but we will recognize yours rights to the island as long as our rights to the Okinawa chain are recognized. You're a big player in the politics of the area and hope to keep foreign relations with your nation on the cordial side.

PS. The Empire hates Communists with a passion, it you catch my drift :D

China will be happy to do so. Because of the quicker ending of WW2 and a shortened Cold War. Chinese military technology is behind Japans, but other civilan sectores (especially computers and aerospace) are advanced. A techonogly exchange would be mutually beneficial. Would Japan also be willing to help China build several advanced ships for a reasonable price and a promise of non-aggression against Japan.

[tom]

Petro Philogrekus was the equivalent to, IIRC, Cook. He explored and ultimately named the Island Continent. He was quite open minded and wished to use the native name for this land. When he got some degree of language fluency, he waved his arms about him and asked "What is this called?" The native replied "Bandibaga." which meant "arms and hands".

[Diamond]

LOL. I always meant to ask you where 'Bandibaga' came from.

[DuQuense]

by Gedca Today the Crusader States are largely reliant on religious tourism and weapons manufacturing (making a large surplus) and a have deep hatred for all things Muslim. Also, in this TL Christianity, although almost entirely Catholic

?What Kinds of Weapons, & How Much? I have a feeling Morrocco will be in the Market.

[GBW]

Reichskommissariat Kaukasus will most likely launch forays into tribal Russia just to it’s North as soon as possible. Its first big problems will probably be food shortages (can be solved by denying Slavs food), followed by possible local rebellion and sabotage (ongoing, but without the German heartland, a lot more hardy to put down). Are there any other Nazi, Nazi-friendly, or extreme pro-German countries that are interested in alliance.

The ISA in North America had a friendly relationship with the Greater German Reich of their universe, though the ISA isn't National Socialist itself. They might be willing to work out some sort of relationship with the Kaukasus, which may include selling them weapons, in return for possible technology exchanges and trading concessions. The formal points, and real negotiating, will have to wait until SME actually starts though.

[Nosb]

The ISA in North America had a friendly relationship with the Greater German Reich of their universe, though the ISA isn't National Socialist itself. They might be willing to work out some sort of relationship with the Kaukasus, which may include selling them weapons, in return for possible technology exchanges and trading concessions. The formal points, and real negotiating, will have to wait until SME actually starts though.

Well, the Kaukasus would surely be interested.

[Leej]

I thought we'd agreed nothing space based would be transported. The height border is the official edge of space.

And to IRC- its the most commonly used chat thing around, there is no registering involved.

[Diamond]

I thought we'd agreed nothing space based would be transported. The height border is the official edge of space.
When did we decide that? Not that I have a problem with it; its a good idea.

And to IRC- its the most commonly used chat thing around, there is no registering involved.
How do you get to the chat room(s) or whatever? Is there some kind of link you can provide?
_____________________________

@ tetsu-katana:

That was a great story!
_____________________________

@ G.Bone:

Nice to see Benny Baruch is still alive and kicking... :)

[Leej]

We agreed nothing space based back on the original topic in ASB I think.
For IRC I use mirc to access it though there are probally a lot of other clients. Probally some net based ones.

>Quote:
PS. The Empire hates Communists with a passion, it you catch my drift


Whe have the National Socalists in the Cacuses, and the USSR in Mongolia,Manchuria. ?Who else? do we have, with Socalist/Communist Countries.<

The commonwealth is evolving towards communism since it didn't have the violent revolutions in its world.

[Diamond]

For IRC I use mirc to access it though there are probally a lot of other clients. Probally some net based ones.


Pretend for a moment that some of us are not internet children and run that by me again, in English this time. :)

[DuQuense]

?What is this "Belly of the Beast" Thread?

[DuQuense]

Just to let everyone know I'm Describing the Event as a Dome of Light, Covering the Area Unless some one pipes in with a better way.

[Faeelin]

?What is this "Belly of the Beast" Thread?

Oh, Nosb said I could do a story exploring Dacia, my country's, reaction to the Nazis in the Kaukasus.

Ironically, given that they're both largely German, they're complete opposites.

[Diamond]

Just to let everyone know I'm Describing the Event as a Dome of Light, Covering the Area Unless some one pipes in with a better way.

Maybe it looks different in different areas...

I was thinking about describing it as a flickering, electrified wall of fire, kind of like a super-aurora.

[DuQuense]

IOTL in the 1800's the nations got together and signed a Treaty Outlawing Pirates, and pledging mutual surport of each others efforts to stamp them out. ALL my ISOTs have signed simular threaties in ATL, and will continue to honor them.

[Faeelin]

The Free and Sovereign nation of the Confederation, currently ruling only Dacia, would like to announce that it is placing sanctions on the despotic tyrannythat is the Kaukasus, and anyone who seeks to buy oil from monsters who have killed hundreds of millions of people will be considered an enemy of mankind.

[DuQuense]

I belive that this belong in Diplomatic Exchange thread.
Hope that You find Allies in Your Fight.

[Faeelin]

I belive that this belong in Diplomatic Exchange thread.
Hope that You find Allies in Your Fight.

Why does that belong there and not piracy?

[tom]

I was thinking maybe a flash of light along the borders.

[Tetsu]

I was thinking maybe a flash of light along the borders.

Since mine took place in the territorial waters around my country, (not everyone saw it, just a few scattered sailors) I described it as Aurora Borealis-type lights, except covering the whole sky.

[Diamond]

I belive that this belong in Diplomatic Exchange thread.
Why does that belong there and not piracy?

Yeah, I was wondering that as well. :)

[G.Bone]

_> Ummm...about start up date....Next Sunday is okay?

_> Thanks Diamond

_> The DCA is currently looking to export and import oil. Also; I need the guys on the border with the DCA, GFR, and Columbia to PM me on matters of border relations & all that.

[Diamond]

Next Sunday works for me.

About unclaimed territories: what are we doing with them? Are we going with DuQuense's 'virgin wilderness' idea? I really need to know considering that there are no claimed nations anywhere directly touching Kirghiz's southern borders... It's gonna make it hard to write if I don't know what's there. :)
________________________

--Kirghiz will be looking to establish mutual defense networks against likely attacks from Kaukasus and Siberian-based sky pirates. Anyone interested? Dacia? China?
(Yes I know that belongs in the Diplomatic Thread, but I was reluctant to post anything there until we actually started...)

[G.Bone]

errr...Diamond...I think that idea is moot, considering the previous posts. How about all diplomatic stuff moved to the Declarations of War thread and have this for out of character debates & such/ administratory things.

Speaking of administratory things, who will be mods? As of late I've been actiong as the unofficial mod of the registering threads. Someone has to watch over the story threads so that they don't spin out of control too much. You interested Diamond?

[perdedor99]

Next Sunday works for me.

About unclaimed territories: what are we doing with them? Are we going with DuQuense's 'virgin wilderness' idea? I really need to know considering that there are no claimed nations anywhere directly touching Kirghiz's southern borders... It's gonna make it hard to write if I don't know what's there. :)
________________________

--Kirghiz will be looking to establish mutual defense networks against likely attacks from Kaukasus and Siberian-based sky pirates. Anyone interested? Dacia? China?
(Yes I know that belongs in the Diplomatic Thread, but I was reluctant to post anything there until we actually started...)


I agree with you in regard to unclaimed territories. Also you can count with our nation in the international campaign to eliminate the sky pirates.
(same as you, I know it belongs to the Diplomatic thread but I want to wait until sunday to post anything there.)

[Diamond]

Well, I'd really like to G.Bone, but I just know that I won't have time to do it by myself. Now if someone else wants to CoMod the stories with me, that might work...

[GBW]

For all those nations looking to send exploration expeditions into NA 1 and Siberia: Yamania (Antarctica) would likely be willing to lend some specialists along with some vehicles and gear, which has been designed to operate in the Yamanian interior, to accompany any expeditions into arctic regions. In return, they'll likely want trade relations as well as other negotiable terms.

perdedor99: You've been saying that the Empire of Japan might send some expeditions. Having Yamanians along, who operate quite well in arctic climates, might be advantageous.

[Diamond]

Once all the nations are listed in the various Continent Threads, what I'd like to do is post a map in the relevant thread for each individual continent. I thought I'd draw in things like capitals and major cities.

What do you guys think? Anything else you think should be on them?

[G.Bone]

I'll help co-mod the stories Diamond- I also can help mod the SA if no one wants it

-> GBW- interested in doing an economic/diplomatic pact with the DCA?

[GBW]

Once all the nations are listed in the various Continent Threads, what I'd like to do is post a map in the relevant thread for each individual continent. I thought I'd draw in things like capitals and major cities.

What do you guys think? Anything else you think should be on them?

Sounds good to me. Maybe if there are canals like the Panama and Suez, that could be included. Can't think of anything other than that.

[perdedor99]

Your offer is very good indeed and we can iron out the details later in the diplomatic thread.

[perdedor99]

Your PKH, interested in a Free trade agreement and later into a anti piracy treaty with the japanese empire?

[G.Bone]

Yes, the PKH is interested in such pact.

(>Speaking of which, can we iron the details in the Diplomatic thread so that it serves it's purpose?)

[Aedh Rua]

Diamond Great Story, One Question




Sunday, August 1, 2004, at 12:00:00 UTC time =Manila Sun 8:00 PM



Is this the same as Midnight GMT? Or does it mean that it's midnight when all nations ISOT, in each of their time zones?

[perdedor99]

Same deal offered to Hawaii is on the table for your state of Pacifica and territory of New Vietnam. Interested?

Also, I think your Korean Empire have also chunks of OTL Manchuria and the Russian Far East IIRC the map correctly.

[Imajin]

Looking at the Map, those areas are not part of the Korean Reigon...

And Pacifica, being a small group of islands, would definately support an anti-piracy agreement, but because it's TL USA reoutinely uses tarrifs and other free trade obstacles, might not warm up to a free-trade agreement... New Vietnam, on the other hand, would likely declare full independence and would agree to both if it's independence would be recognized...

[G.Bone]

the PKH is also interested in opening relations with State of Pacifica and Territory of New Vietnam. PM me if interested.

[perdedor99]

what I try to say was that Asia 14 in the world map of SME includes parts of OTL Manchuria and the Russian Far East. Your TL history says that the Empire rules over a vast Empire so IMHO they should be included in your empire. Don't take it wrong, just trying to cover the bases. You decide what to do with your area.

[Imajin]

Ah, I thought you were saying they were transported... I can see the Emperor attempting to regain those lands, though...

[GBW]

Ah, I thought you were saying they were transported... I can see the Emperor attempting to regain those lands, though...

Asia 14, the region you chose, has within it the Korean peninsula, southern Manchuria and a portion of the Maritime Province of Siberia, which includes Vladivostok. Looking at your map of Joeson Jeguk's world, that would mean that southern Manchuria has been transported along with Korea and that portion of Siberia is a portion of the dependent state that takes up southeastern Siberia.

So, yes, those were transported.

[Diamond]

Is this the same as Midnight GMT? Or does it mean that it's midnight when all nations ISOT, in each of their time zones?

It was my understanding that the Mosaic Event will take place at 12 Noon GMT on August 1.

So for my territories that'd be:

Hispaniola: 7AM
Kirghiz: 4PM
New Hebrides: 8PM

[Aedh Rua]

It was my understanding that the Mosaic Event will take place at 12 Noon GMT on August 1.

So for my territories that'd be:

Hispaniola: 7AM
Kirghiz: 4PM
New Hebrides: 8PM

Got it. Thanks.

[DuQuense]

Why does that belong there and not piracy?

Your Statement is Writen as between Darcia & Kracuese, Addressed to Other nations. Ie diplomatic Traffic

My Statement was as Overseeing Space Bat Informing other Bats, pertaining to All my Areas.

[DuQuense]

I think we are Posting our first posts showing August 1 1200 Hrs [noon] GMT [England] or Pre 1st, Then on Sunday we will start posting the follow ups.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html

[perdedor99]

Gbone asked me to move our diplomatic exchange in PM to the diplomatic thread. No more until the event. if you guys decide I can take it out and repost after the event.

[Diamond]

I'm working on a more detailed map of North America right now. Here's what I need:


The official name(s) of all nations within your Zone.
Any cities you'd like to appear (please keep it under 10)
Any special things you'd like drawn in (like military bases, major roads/hiways, canals, etc)
Anything else you want to appear (as long as its not to big to fit; I reserve the right to leave it out)

________________________

Ideally, I'd like to have maps for all 7 Regions done by next Sunday (the 1st), so we can have them ready to look at for the official start of SME. Please help me by listing all your nations and the above info muy pronto.

[Imajin]

The Southern Republic of America
Cities: Charleston, Richmond (In OTL positions)

And that's pretty much it for my region..

[Aedh Rua]

I'm working on a more detailed map of North America right now. Here's what I need:


The official name(s) of all nations within your Zone.
Any cities you'd like to appear (please keep it under 10)
Any special things you'd like drawn in (like military bases, major roads/hiways, canals, etc)
Anything else you want to appear (as long as its not to big to fit; I reserve the right to leave it out)

________________________

Ideally, I'd like to have maps for all 7 Regions done by next Sunday (the 1st), so we can have them ready to look at for the official start of SME. Please help me by listing all your nations and the above info muy pronto.

Just two for me.

Nouiodunon (New Fortress), on site of Quebec City.

Andebrigacon (Under the High Place), on site of Montreal.

[Diamond]

The Southern Republic of America
Cities: Charleston, Richmond (In OTL positions)

And that's pretty much it for my region..

No Savannah? No Miami? No Atlanta?

[GBW]

Industrial States of America

Cities: Chicago - Capital; Detroit; Cleveland; Cincinnati; Indianapolis; St. Louis; Louisville; Milwaukee.

[Justin Green]

In the world my nation came from bio-weapons research shot ahead much earlier than ours. This lead me to the idea that differenet viruses and diseases would have evolved and changed. Basically the flu from one world could kill in another. I would like permission to go with this. Basically since bio-weapons were used proliferently in my world, its inhabitants will be possibly deadly to others just because they have something like a common cold.

Thoughts, Ideas?

[Aedh Rua]

In the world my nation came from bio-weapons research shot ahead much earlier than ours. This lead me to the idea that differenet viruses and diseases would have evolved and changed. Basically the flu from one world could kill in another. I would like permission to go with this. Basically since bio-weapons were used proliferently in my world, its inhabitants will be possibly deadly to others just because they have something like a common cold.

Thoughts, Ideas?

Well, this could get out of control very easily. Yours might not be the only world with deadly viruses. Mine has 2500 years of alternate bacteriological evolution.

I'd say we forget the idea. Either that or get ready for plague to kill 90% of about two thirds of all nations..........

[Diamond]

GBW: Unfortunately, St. Louis was on the other side of the Mississippi (which I used as a Mosaic border for part of its length) and its location is now in New Saxonland. I put all the other cities in though.

Justin: I agree with Aedh Rua. Its probably not very realistic to forget about it, but the alternative is a very short-lasting SME... :)

[Justin Green]

Alright, but I intend on mentioning the possiblity of a dooms=day plague in my stories.

[G.Bone]

@Diamond

Next are you going to do S. America?

@everyone else

'Kay- I'm going to ask all diplomatic stuff whether it be Out of Character [i.e. "Hey GBW I'm going to invade Pakistan, interested?" "Sure Justin Green"] or In Character to be moved to the Diplomatic thread. Stuff before the game starts can be negotiated through PM's but must be annoted in the Diplomatic thread with a simple statement [i.e. Diamond and GBW negotiated a pact 'tween their nations: Nation X and Nationi Y] and a title of the pact, and then either written out in story form or role playing story form [i.e. I reply to a story depicting PKH response to Japanese Invasion that GBW wrote, Landshark writes a story depicting the response of Omanistan on my response, etc, etc ].

Smelounge is strictly for stuff relating to the overall game and things not relating to Diplomatic pre-game talks.

Sorry for the posters that I have used as examples

-> Oh, and I'm just curious: is anyone interested in helping to administer the areas of this game?

[Diamond]

Next are you going to do S. America?
Yes. Then Europe.

G.Bone's rant
Sorry. :( You're right, now that we're starting to really gear up on this we'll have to try to stay in the correct threads or things are going to get really confusing really fast.

-> Oh, and I'm just curious: is anyone interested in helping to administer the areas of this game?
As I said, I'll HELP to Mod the various stories, but I'm not about to do it by myself.

[G.Bone]

True, but I am the only guy who is acting as a mod.

[DuQuense]

Name of Area [Defense treaty] NAFTZ [North America free trade Zone]

Empire of Mexico- OTL Mexicain areas New Capital- Tiajuna, + Mexicali, Hermosa.
Confederate States -, Arizona, 1/3 new mexico, SW corner of Utah 50Mile Strip along Border. New Capital -San Deigo, + Phoenix, Tucson,
Pacific Republic - OTL California, Capital Sacamento, + San Fransico, Los Angles, Las Vegas .

[Diamond]

True, but I am the only guy who is acting as a mod.
What about Landshark and GBW?

[Diamond]

No can do on Phoenix & Tucson; they're in the neighboring north Mexican Zone. All other cities added though.

[Diamond]

Sorry for the triple post; I'm getting all enthusiastic and shit here... :D

ATTENTION: NOW STARTING SOUTH AMERICA MAP - THOSE WITH NATION IN SA, GIVE ME CITIES, MAJOR ROADS, WHATEVER.... THANK YOU.

[GBW]

Incan Empire

Cities: Cuzco - Capital; Chan Chan (Site of Trujillo, Peru, provincial capital of La Libertad province)

[tom]

I plan to take copies of the posts on the old Mithras threads on my vacation and brush up un them. I will not have time until then (garage door fell, doctor's appointments, etc.).

[tom]

You can get the border between New Saxonland and New Leoland from the Mithras thread...N. L. will be soon dominated by N. S. anyway. The new capitol is Jeru where Salt Lake City is here. If you want you can do something for Russia...but it makes the squabbling fiedoms of the Dark Ages look like a unified empire. It is a sea of savagery with islands of mere barbarism.

[Diamond]

Tom: I gave the New Saxonland areas approximately 70% of the total zone, with New Leoland getting an odd-shaped strip across the south. I'll post a first version of the North America map tonite and you can let me know what else you want tweaked on it. More cities? Anything?

Same for you Confederatefly. What is the SW Confederate Republic's capital and major cities?

[GBW]

What about Landshark and GBW?

Huh? Do what now? What exactly would I do? Any perks? :)

Btw, as a reminder for everyone, don't forget to check your Personal Messaging. If you're in SME, it appears to now be the norm for diplomacy to be worked out that way before it's put in the actual thread.

[Landshark]

Huh? Do what now? What exactly would I do? Any perks? :)

Droit du seigneur?

Anyway the power that should be mine by right is..... mine. Power, sweet, sweet power! Absolute power! Well semi absolute power anyway but that isn't important. What is important is that the rest of you are my playthings, to use and discard like soiled kleenex at my whim!!! Right you lot just wait while I find my whip and Catwoman costume. And I'm not talking that crap ass Halle Berry monstrosity either. No it's gonna be a proper Batman Returns, Michelle Pfeiffer with a touch of Julie Newmar job.

Anyway you lot just drop your trousers, grab your ankles and kiss your asses goodbye and I'll be with you in a moment.

(BTW am I the only one who thinks we need a smilie for total fucking insanity)

[DuQuense]

Does Anyone Have this Area, I am waiting to Greet my New Neighbor, and his TimeLine.

[G.Bone]

Okay- My computer is down for a while so I am (unofficially again) appointing Diamond in charge of the Maps, GBW as stories monitor assistant, and Landshark as Smelounge monitor. This is only for the interim period that my comp is down so....DO NOT GET ABUSIVE WITH YOUR POWER AND LET THE MINONS OF EVIL CORRUPT YOU!!! :D

Dominion of Chile-Argentina=> Nelson Town [OTL Buenos Aires], Wellington [capital], Petegonya, Omalstadt [OTL Santiago=> capital], Sudstadt, Wesport, Spanishtown, Cordoba
Outer Territories=> Wellintun ["capital"], Fort Brunswick, Nordstat Base, Rickart Street, Uckoven Base

Major Transport Networks=>
Laways Highway System [connnecting Southern Argentina],
Dowslun Highway System [connecting Northern Argentina],
Sauchil Highway System [connecting South Chile]
Norchile Highway System [N. Chile]
Irontrack Railroads [South Argentina & Chile]
Redcoat Railroads [North Argentina & Chile/Outer Territories]
National Subway System [N. Argentina]

PKH

Major Cities: Honolulu (capital), Kona, Lahina, Princeville, Hilo, Pearl City, ...(just like OTL)

Major Roads: H1, H2, H3 (all the rest are residential)

Republic of Columbia & Guyana Federated Republic

Major Cities: [Same as OTL for Columbia], Fort Gomez (acting capital of the GFR)

Transport/Roads: Columbian National Highways (3), Guyanian Highways (2)

Australia

Major Cities: Fort Randsfield (acting capital), Lundhill, Barber's Point

Transport/Roads: Same as OTL although cut severely due to the Event

PS=> The capital of the Dominion of the Falkland Islands is Port Stanley and there are no highways because it's so small:)

[tom]

My thoughts:
New Saxonland (NA 5 IIRC) is quickly going to realize Something Happened. They will be cautious at first, fearing some sort of Second War. After a few hours they will get a clue what is up, and start exploring with UAVs (might as well call them that...they will call them something else but there languages are as different from OTL equivalents as English is from Dutch or